Northerns remaining non PRM compliant 153s ans 142s

superkev

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Hi
I've lost track of the current deadline for continued operation of Northerns non compliant units. I.e. pacers and class 153s.
Wasn't Dec 31st the end date.
Also what's the position re toiletless 150 209.
Thanks
 
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talltim

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I was wondering this on Wednesday when I saw a service formed of two 153s. I thought they were only supposed to run with a PRM
compliant unit?
 

TC60054

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I was wondering this on Wednesday when I saw a service formed of two 153s. I thought they were only supposed to run with a PRM
compliant unit?
There's a few routes, mainly in the east side, where they're permitted to run without a PRM unit. Sheffield - Huddersfield, Doncaster - Scunthorpe, Bradford - Huddersfield are the ones that immediately spring to mind.
 

NoMorePacers

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Their solo derogation covers Sheffield-Huddersfield, Huddersfield-Bradford, Huddersfield-Castleford, Doncaster-Scunthorpe and Barton-Cleethorpes (from memory at least).
 

158757

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142's are going by the December timetable change, I believe the 153 derogation is going to be extended until May 2021 but as yet no indication as to what will replace them. I believe the plan is for further Sprinter type units although from where I have no idea, and as some routes 153's current operate on are 3 car max I'm unsure as to how replacements would be deployed.

Toiletless 150209 is PRM compliant, it's been in Wigan Wallgate CS for several weeks but I imagine it will come out and work paired with toileted units once traffic levels require it again.
 

Anonymous10

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142's are going by the December timetable change, I believe the 153 derogation is going to be extended until May 2021 but as yet no indication as to what will replace them. I believe the plan is for further Sprinter type units although from where I have no idea, and as some routes 153's current operate on are 3 car max I'm unsure as to how replacements would be deployed.

Toiletless 150209 is PRM compliant, it's been in Wigan Wallgate CS for several weeks but I imagine it will come out and work paired with toileted units once traffic levels require it again.
possibly cascade from tfw? all 15x units prm compliant
 

NoMorePacers

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The first PRM compliant diesel units that are seemingly going to be available in the future (at the moment) are (at least parts of) the EMR Sprinter fleet - even then that's a good while off of happening.
 

LowLevel

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The first PRM compliant diesel units that are seemingly going to be available in the future (at the moment) are (at least parts of) the EMR Sprinter fleet - even then that's a good while off of happening.

Not that far off happening. First 170/5s are expected from March as of the last update. Expect the first 156s to start going off lease (hopefully the horrible ex Anglia 156/9s) as soon as they enter traffic as EMR are already struggling with depot capacity.
 

Cardiff123

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meant to be leaving 2021 onwards if i remember correctly new stock starts then onwards
No chance. The 175s will be the first 'legacy' DMUs to leave TfW when the new CAF DMUs start in passenger service. According to the original fleet plans unveiled at the start of the TfW franchise in 2018, the 150/2s will be the very last legacy DMUs to leave TfW, once the upgrade work on the Core Valley lines is complete and the new Stadler trains & tram-trains are in service. So that's December 2022 at the earliest.
 

Dan H York

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No chance. The 175s will be the first 'legacy' DMUs to leave TfW when the new CAF DMUs start in passenger service. According to the original fleet plans unveiled at the start of the TfW franchise in 2018, the 150/2s will be the very last legacy DMUs to leave TfW, once the upgrade work on the Core Valley lines is complete and the new Stadler trains & tram-trains are in service. So that's December 2022 at the earliest.
With the arrival of 769s, won’t sprinters start to replace the pacers with TfW?
 

507021

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I wouldn't be entirely surprised if TfW Rail's PRM compliant 153s end up with Northern at some point.

I'd say it's almost certain their 769s will.
 

warwickshire

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1. Will Northern's 153 Also stay to May 2021.
2. More interestingly from December 2020 will they only be able to work with a prm unit only.
3. Will they be covering some services such as Rochdale to Clitheroe and Wigan to Blackburn on some off the services formally run by Pacers with a prm unit on.
 
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AMD

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I wouldn't be entirely surprised if TfW Rail's PRM compliant 153s end up with Northern at some point.
I'm not party to the full details of the plan (as like many plans it's like shifting sands), but what I am aware of is that there are (or at least were) no 153s in the Northern train plan for May 2021.
More interestingly from December 2020 will they only be able to work with a prm unit only.
Yes, possibly except a couple of routes if the derogation gets extended past 31st December to allow running on their own.
 

507021

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I'm not party to the full details of the plan (as like many plans it's like shifting sands), but what I am aware of is that there are (or at least were) no 153s in the Northern train plan for May 2021.

Thanks for the clarification.
 

ed1971

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1. Will Northern's 153 Also stay to May 2021.
2. More interestingly from December 2020 will they only be able to work with a prm unit only.
3. Will they be covering some services such as Rochdale to Clitheroe and Wigan to Blackburn on some off the services formally run by Pacers with a prm unit on.
Remember that Class 153s cannot go through Wigan Wallgate, so Wigan to Blackburn is out unless the service starts at Wigan NW.
 

warwickshire

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Remember that Class 153s cannot go through Wigan Wallgate, so Wigan to Blackburn is out unless the service starts at Wigan NW.
Yes that was the one I was thinking about. However maybe what is more interesting is that class 153 wise is that Northern still have the Cleethorpes to Barton on Humber service to May next year so an EMR 153 might stay on it, unless it reverts back to a Northern 153 again.
 
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AMD

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Remember that Class 153s cannot go through Wigan Wallgate, so Wigan to Blackburn is out unless the service starts at Wigan NW.
Of the 17 services booked to run, 7 go to North Western specifically to accommodate a 153 on a diagram (of the remainder 8 terminate at Wallgate, 1 at Kirkby and 1 at Southport)
 

geoffk

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Remember that Class 153s cannot go through Wigan Wallgate, so Wigan to Blackburn is out unless the service starts at Wigan NW.
Isn't platform 2 or 3 at Wigan NW being lengthened (but just how isn't clear, having looked at them). I assume that means a three-car Northern service off the L&Y line will be able to terminate there rather than run to Wallgate, then have to do a shunt move. Problem solved for 153s.
 

AMD

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Isn't platform 2 or 3 at Wigan NW being lengthened (but just how isn't clear, having looked at them). I assume that means a three-car Northern service off the L&Y line will be able to terminate there rather than run to Wallgate, then have to do a shunt move. Problem solved for 153s
Platform 3 is being extended as P2 has been taken out, with the points out the signal has been moved about 20m further away from the buffers - however this project is to do with getting trains of 80m turned at North Western for Springs Branch, as the bays were about 70m previously.
The Blackburns have pre-Covid run into North Western, and normally use platform 1 as since December 2019 timetable change some were booked with 153s.
 

jonesy3001

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It'll be at least the Porterbrook units, 156401-419/422.

On saying that, I think it's only logical to assume 470/473/497/498 will end up returning as well.

Basically if the rumours are true about the EMR 156s going to northern next year means that there'll be only 2 TOCs that will have the 156s on the books, scotrail being the other one.
 

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