Nuneham Viaduct: what alternative provision could be provided?

[The Planner]

The strengthening was presumably pre-planned as it would have been required for the WCML block anyway.

Indeed it was.

 

[A0wen]

The strengthening was presumably pre-planned as it would have been required for the WCML block anyway.

Though that was presumably on the Birmingham side only - not the Oxfords? Though looking at Chiltern's departure board the Oxford's look like they're a mix of 6, 5 and 3 car - is that any different to normal ?

 

[sammyg901]

My thought was more well done them for making it happen - they seem to have had a lot of issues with short formations in the peaks this week based on my observations / Twitter !

They are running some additional services this afternoon. I heard from a friend it was pretty chaotic at Marylebone this morning with access restricted and queues outside

 

[LordFlashheart]

Looks like a good showing from Chiltern today, plenty of cl68 workings , half hourly Birminghams with up to 8 carriages, Oxfords 5 or 6 carriages

Poor from Chiltern with nothing from Aylesbury and Wendover until Tuesday! Ignoring the Met as usual. They really are utterly useless

 

[A0wen]

Poor from Chiltern with nothing from Aylesbury and Wendover until Tuesday! Ignoring the Met as usual. They really are utterly useless

A bit unfair - the Met's closed between Aldgate & Harrow on the Hill.

And TFL's "helpful" advice is......

"METROPOLITAN LINE: Good Friday 7, Saturday 8, Sunday 9 and Easter Monday 10 April, no service between Aldgate and Harrow-on-the-Hill due to Planned Engineering work. Use Chiltern Railways services to Wembley Stadium or replacement buses services."

And the Jubilee's closed between Stanmore and West Hampstead - so even the option of RRBs to Stanmore isn't an option.

 

[LordFlashheart]

A bit unfair - the Met's closed between Aldgate & Harrow on the Hill.

And TFL's "helpful" advice is......

"METROPOLITAN LINE: Good Friday 7, Saturday 8, Sunday 9 and Easter Monday 10 April, no service between Aldgate and Harrow-on-the-Hill due to Planned Engineering work. Use Chiltern Railways services to Wembley Stadium or replacement buses services."

And the Jubilee's closed between Stanmore and West Hampstead - so even the option of RRBs to Stanmore isn't an option.

But Chiltern can still run via Harrow on the Hill. They've chosen not to. The Met is running as far as Harrow so no reason for Chiltern to bin the entire service for 4 days

 

[A0wen]

But Chiltern can still run via Harrow on the Hill. They've chosen not to. The Met is running as far as Harrow so no reason for Chiltern to bin the entire service for 4 days

According to RTT they are running between Aylesbury & Marylebone via Wycombe tomorrow xx.53 from Marylebone.

I guess they probably agreed with TFL that running a 2 or 3 car DMU into Harrow on the Hill which would then be the only southbound train, wasn't a good idea.

And before you say "more rolling stock", Chiltern had already used that to strengthen their Birmingham services due to the WCML closure.

 

[Sentinel]

Anyone know how XC is getting its Voyagers that are in the south back to Three Rivers for maintenance?

 

[LordFlashheart]

According to RTT they are running between Aylesbury & Marylebone via Wycombe tomorrow xx.53 from Marylebone.

I guess they probably agreed with TFL that running a 2 or 3 car DMU into Harrow on the Hill which would then be the only southbound train, wasn't a good idea.

And before you say "more rolling stock", Chiltern had already used that to strengthen their Birmingham services due to the WCML closure.

Not much use from Stoke Mandeville, Wendover, or Great Missenden though. I know Chiltern have no rolling stock, they've been under resourced for years. 25% service reduction after covid, with a further 25% reduction on Saturdays to come in May.

They clearly don't want to run anything on the Met. Everytime there's an event at Wembley the Met service is cut or abandoned entirely.

But back to the original question, Chiltern clearly don't have the trains to do anything significantly different, so where can some rolling stock be found to help in the short term? If none, then the bus to Didcot would seem the best option

 

[Siemens Staines]

I notice today that all of the 1Dxx/1Wxx/1Pxx services running between Paddington and Didcot, that prior to Monday would have gone to Oxford, are 387s. Mostly 8-car, but at least one 12-car was seen. I guess it is only possible this weekend because of no Newbury services due to the Reading West closure.

 

[zwk500]

Anyone know how XC is getting its Voyagers that are in the south back to Three Rivers for maintenance?

If they can't be kept going at Reading or Eastleigh, there's the option of getting route conducted to Bristol then up through Birmingham or hiring in drivers that know Reading-Acton-WCML.

 

[swt_passenger]

Anyone know how XC is getting its Voyagers that are in the south back to Three Rivers for maintenance?

They might not need to yet, they can get normal overnight maintenance at Eastleigh TRSMD, that deals with 6 or 7 units overnight in the normal course anyway. I’ve checked for moves from there and Didcot but there’s nothing planned in the way of ECS to Central Rivers for the next week or so.

 

[Benjwri]

They might not need to yet, they can get normal overnight maintenance at Eastleigh TRSMD, that deals with 6 or 7 units overnight in the normal course anyway. I’ve checked for moves from there and Didcot but there’s nothing planned in the way of ECS to Central Rivers for the next week or so.

Eastleigh will be able to handle most things, and are capable of more than just routine maintenance. I wouldn’t be surprised if the voyagers just stay there for the entire time.

 

[swt_passenger]

If they can't be kept going at Reading or Eastleigh, there's the option of getting route conducted to Bristol then up through Birmingham or hiring in drivers that know Reading-Acton-WCML.

There’d be no need to involve Reading, they‘d be running ECS between Reading and Eastleigh TRSMD normally anyway, and AFAICS there’s no more units than normal overnighting in the south.

 

[philosopher]

I'd hold your horses - that info isn't substantiated.

This, however, is a screen grab taken just now from Chiltern's own website - the Oxfords are a 6, 5, 3, 5.

The longest Birmingham is a 7 with two 6 and one 5 - not that's much different to normal.

I was on the 12:10 today, which was 7 carriages long and it was absolutely heaving, it was not far off being crush loaded and there seemed to quite a few people who did not bother boarding.

I arrived at Marylebone at 11:45 and at that time there was already a mass of people in front of the barrier, so I suspect many of these people had been denied from boarding the 11:37 train.

 

[Falcon1200]

Paddington with its better connectivity is a better place to arrive unless you happen to be heading for Amersham.

Our destination in London is Euston for a train northwards, and thanks to the actually very poor connectivity (by rail) between Paddington and Euston we will take the bus; Which starts from Paddington and passes Marylebone!

So why, given you're travelling with a 92 year old would you try to shoehorn yourself on what is going to be an overcrowded Chiltern service

As we will be joining at origin in good time there will be no need to shoehorn ourselves on, and we will have a far more pleasant journey than by RRB, with all the traffic issues in Oxford, and a change at Didcot.

 

[A0wen]

As we will be joining at origin in good time there will be no need to shoehorn ourselves on, and we will have a far more pleasant journey than by RRB, with all the traffic issues in Oxford, and a change at Didcot.

I'd read the post above yours......

You might get a seat, but probably not a pleasant journey.

Feels like your dislike of RRBs means you're cutting off your nose to spite your face.

 

[sammyg901]

According to RTT they are running between Aylesbury & Marylebone via Wycombe tomorrow xx.53 from Marylebone.

I guess they probably agreed with TFL that running a 2 or 3 car DMU into Harrow on the Hill which would then be the only southbound train, wasn't a good idea.

And before you say "more rolling stock", Chiltern had already used that to strengthen their Birmingham services due to the WCML closure.

Yes - historically when the Met is closed south of HotH Chiltern would strengthen their services and run additional shuttles to Marylebone. No way that could be resourced today of course

That said it has become their SOP to RRB their via Amersham service to free up resources for the mainline when required

 

[A0wen]

That said it has become their SOP to RRB their via Amersham service to free up resources for the mainline when required

Which given the only affected stations are Stoke Mandeville (pre Covid use 300k), Wendover (500k) and Great Missenden (500k) is understandable. Their use is less than the Wycombe line - and low compared to stations not far away on the WCML.

To compare, Berkhamstead (>1.5m), Tring (900k).

 

[Falcon1200]

Feels like your dislike of RRBs means you're cutting off your nose to spite your face.

No particular dislike of RRBs, simply a feeling that one train throughout is better than a bus, a change and a train. If I was travelling alone, I would consider walking up to the JR and taking the X32 to Didcot (and may do that in reverse when I travel to Oxford next week), but what is reasonable for me is not for someone considerably older!

 

[20Man]

My wife and I travelled from High Wycombe to Aylesbury yesterday and saw the 10:10 Marylebone-Birmingham which was an absolutely rammed 5 car, 2+3, with some people unable to get on.

 

[Nicholas43]

Possibly we need a separate thread for this? Information about the replacement bus(es?) between Oxford and Didcot is currently poor. Journey planners show one departure an hour from Oxford or Didcot, with a vague indication that some may go via Radley etc.
On Good Friday around noon there was a huge queue at Didcot for (non-appearing) coaches to Oxford.  If you asked the right person, you got escorted to a pleasant minibus for Appleford etc, also (I think) once an hour. There is currently absolutely no information at Radley about the departure times for rail replacement buses. You can of course get OBC #35 to Oxford. But tough luck if you want to go to Culham.
Did I dream seeing a post here about a shuttle Radley <> Oxford? Or operating Radley <> Banbury?
And currently the lift on platform 4 at Oxford is broken ...

 

[Mcr Warrior]

My wife and I travelled from High Wycombe to Aylesbury yesterday and saw the 10:10 Marylebone-Birmingham which was an absolutely rammed 5 car, 2+3, with some people unable to get on.

Is that, in all probability, a consequence of the railway being closed between Didcot and Oxford, or the WCML being shut between Euston and Milton Keynes Central?

 

[20Man]

Is that, in all probability, a consequence of the railway being closed between Didcot and Oxford, or the WCML being shut between Euston and Milton Keynes Central?

I would imagine that most of it was because of the WCML, but I spoke to some people that had come over to High Wycombe from Slough, Maidenhead and Reading to travel to Birmingham and further north on XC services from Banbury avoiding the problems between Didcot and Oxford.

I've seen some pictures of Marylebone yesterday and I've never seen crowds like it there.

 

[zwk500]

I've seen some pictures of Marylebone yesterday and I've never seen crowds like it there.

I doubt it's ever been the result of 2 diversionary routes at once before. There's only so many people you can fit on a train, and when 2 (generally longer/higher capacity trains) are trying to squeeze onto a third, it's not surprising there's a crowd.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

I doubt it's ever been the result of 2 diversionary routes at once before. There's only so many people you can fit on a train, and when 2 (generally longer/higher capacity trains) are trying to squeeze onto a third, it's not surprising there's a crowd.

Not helped of course by presumably "neccessary" works which took out the Jubilee and Metropolitan lines.

(there was a time , when apart from more careful national rail planning was done - when serious attempts were made to integrate LUL and "National Rail" works on key corridors)

Before I end this rant - part from the "unfortunate" issues with this bridge - Maundy Thursday used to be regarded as the busiest passenger day of the year. Lots of relief trains all over the place from Swansea / Penzance and many other key destinations.

"Closer the Customer" ......???????

 

[The Planner]

Not helped of course by presumably "neccessary" works which took out the Jubilee and Metropolitan lines.

(there was a time , when apart from more careful national rail planning was done - when serious attempts were made to integrate LUL and "National Rail" works on key corridors)

Before I end this rant - part from the "unfortunate" issues with this bridge - Maundy Thursday used to be regarded as the busiest passenger day of the year. Lots of relief trains all over the place from Swansea / Penzance and many other key destinations.

"Closer the Customer" ......???????

LUL are involved with NR engineering access discussions though.

 

[JamesT]

I’ve seen one muppet on twitter suggesting that the bridge should be replaced with a lightweight replacement not suitable for freight, which should be redirected elsewhere. Given their insistence the freight should use Liverpool docks rather than those on the South coast, I suspect a scouser with an axe to grind.

 

[30907]

Not helped of course by presumably "neccessary" works which took out the Jubilee and Metropolitan lines.

(there was a time , when apart from more careful national rail planning was done - when serious attempts were made to integrate LUL and "National Rail" works on key corridors)

Before I end this rant - part from the "unfortunate" issues with this bridge - Maundy Thursday used to be regarded as the busiest passenger day of the year. Lots of relief trains all over the place from Swansea / Penzance and many other key destinations.

....and, significantly, Good Friday wasn't particularly busy for long distance traffic, certainly not after midday - but I'm talking of an era when more people used flexible tickets....

 

[jhy44]

I'm hearing horror stories about the RRB queues, and with the roadworks at Oxford station about to commence the journey time is going to get even longer. If this is going to go on for 2+ months then a better temporary solution is going to be needed for Hereford & Worcester-bound passengers.

Why are GWR not extending the Paddington - Cheltenham trains to Worcester/Hereford? The odd Paddington-Hereford train is pathed that away anyway (which I will be using tomorrow afternoon from Worcester to Paddington to avoid the RRB). The regular GWR service from Cheltenham to Worcester city centre is pretty poor and makes the alternative route that way pretty un-attractive.