Objects being thrown at trains-a way to prevent this?

[185143]

I was travelling on the Goole to Leeds service yesterday and around Glasshougton, there was a loud bang near the front of the train. Some little scumbag had thought it was funny to lob a stone at the train, which had marked the window, but hadn't cracked it. (I checked it, mainly as the loud bang made me **** myself )

This isn't the first incident I've had in this area, around two months ago, on the same service we were emergency stopped between Glasshougton and Pontefract due to, to quote the guard, 'Thankfully it was the type [of concrete slab put onto the tracks in front of the train] that smashes into pieces when you hit it rather than derailing you'

The sad reality is that the people responsible for this rarely get caught, IMHO, and they know this, therefore there are few deterrents to stop them doing it! Is a solution being looked into? I find it quite concerning that these three incidents have happened in the last three months tbh!

Not a problem unique to the railway, I've had a rock lobbed at a rail replacement bus in the Ashton-under-Lyne area+countless snowballs thrown at service buses, but that's a little different...

With the exception of the concrete slab incident, I've only ever witnessed it after dark, funny that!

Any thoughts? (Other than find the people responsible and stick whatever they might want to throw at moving vehicles up their a***s!)

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

On a tangent but reflective of similar mindless behaviour, it seems that every year, there are reports of the crews of fire engines having half-bricks thrown at them and their fire tenders when attempting to attend reported bonfire incidents on "Bonfire Night".

 

[jopsuk]

not unique to this country. not a modern or increasing problem, and not something easily sorted- as noted, by the time any report is made to the police the murderous scrotes will have scattered. Short of putting the entire network in tunnels (solving level crossing, most trespass and all weather issues!) there's very little can be done about it other than perhaps education efforts in known blackspots

 

[Harpers Tate]

Ah yes, tunnels. It would solve the need for pesky things like windows and those annoying comments from passengers on cl150 (etc) or Pendolinos who can't see out.

The solution to such issues (not just this type of vandalism, but all manner of anti-social behaviour) is, in my opinion, to be far, far more draconian with punitive responses. If such people won't behave "properly" out of mere respect for others then the next best thing is true fear of consequences.

 

[TailLight]

It is caused by stupidity. I'm sure people who do this think the train will stop when it sees the obstruction, they think trains can stop as quickly as rubber wheels on tarmac.

If they are trying to derail trains and kill hundreds then that is essentially terrorism.

 

[ComUtoR]

It is caused by stupidity. I'm sure people who do this think the train will stop when it sees the obstruction, they think trains can stop as quickly as rubber wheels on tarmac..

I'm pretty sure that their intent is to hit the train. My personal belief is that they are unaware of the consequences.

How to solve it ?

Well for starters I would clear the detritus from the railway and its environs. A lot of this is opportunity. They see a few bricks, slabs etc by the railways and think, "oooooh lets chuck this over the edge"

Secondly I would educate people on the dangers. NR have an ad campaign for crossings etc but that could easily be extended to vandalism. I would also educate in schools. I know I had various safety education when I was at school and I often say that I grew up in the "play it safe" era.

Lastly I would give them something to do. Kids are bored and wander the streets like pack animals. Again, when I was a young'un we had large playgrounds, parks, clubs, skateparks etc. We had places we could congregate. A lot of those has been removed. Where I live we had a youth center open up and the kids flocked there and suffice to say that the 'lesser spotted hoodie' was seen a lot less.

You will never resolve those who are intent on causing damage.

 

[anme]

If they are trying to derail trains and kill hundreds then that is essentially terrorism.

Google defines terrorism as "the unofficial or unauthorized use of violence and intimidation in the pursuit of political aims."
What political aims are being pursued in this case?

 

[bluenoxid]

I'm pretty sure that their intent is to hit the train. My personal belief is that they are unaware of the consequences.

How to solve it ?

Well for starters I would clear the detritus from the railway and its environs. A lot of this is opportunity. They see a few bricks, slabs etc by the railways and think, "oooooh lets chuck this over the edge"

Secondly I would educate people on the dangers. NR have an ad campaign for crossings etc but that could easily be extended to vandalism. I would also educate in schools. I know I had various safety education when I was at school and I often say that I grew up in the "play it safe" era.

Lastly I would give them something to do. Kids are bored and wander the streets like pack animals. Again, when I was a young'un we had large playgrounds, parks, clubs, skateparks etc. We had places we could congregate. A lot of those has been removed. Where I live we had a youth center open up and the kids flocked there and suffice to say that the 'lesser spotted hoodie' was seen a lot less.

You will never resolve those who are intent on causing damage.

I very much agree with the above post.

 

[TailLight]

I'm pretty sure that their intent is to hit the train. My personal belief is that they are unaware of the consequences.

How to solve it ?

Well for starters I would clear the detritus from the railway and its environs. A lot of this is opportunity. They see a few bricks, slabs etc by the railways and think, "oooooh lets chuck this over the edge"

Secondly I would educate people on the dangers. NR have an ad campaign for crossings etc but that could easily be extended to vandalism. I would also educate in schools. I know I had various safety education when I was at school and I often say that I grew up in the "play it safe" era.

Lastly I would give them something to do. Kids are bored and wander the streets like pack animals. Again, when I was a young'un we had large playgrounds, parks, clubs, skateparks etc. We had places we could congregate. A lot of those has been removed. Where I live we had a youth center open up and the kids flocked there and suffice to say that the 'lesser spotted hoodie' was seen a lot less.

You will never resolve those who are intent on causing damage.

I certainly agree that there is a problem with hardly anything for the youth to do. "When a society takes away all adventure the only adventure left is to destroy it".

When it comes to safety campaigns you have to strike a balance between giving important information and potentially giving people ideas, I'm sure 99% of kids have never even thought of throwing bricks onto railways but if you say "don't do it" then you will get even more thinking about it.

The main things should be education about stopping distances, electrification, and such.

Google defines terrorism as "the unofficial or unauthorized use of violence and intimidation in the pursuit of political aims."
What political aims are being pursued in this case?

It would be an act of terror.

 

[ian959]

Fit all trains with object radar and 105mm cannons. Anything appears on the radar, automatically start blasting away... hopefully some of the scrotes would be killed and the gene pool improves as a result.



There is no way of really stopping it apart from higher fences and making all over bridges fully covered I guess.

It is not a new thing but as education standards continue to decline and the personal responsibility and common sense become things of the past, it continues to get worse.

 

[Welly]

Well for starters I would clear the detritus from the railway and its environs. A lot of this is opportunity. They see a few bricks, slabs etc by the railways and think, "oooooh lets chuck this over the edge"

Years ago, I once cycled over the ECML bridge at East Markham near Retford and noticed a 2 gallon bottle of water just sitting on the pavement in the middle of the bridge. I removed that container by emptying and chucking it down the steep road embankment just east of the bridge into dense woods.

 

[87015]

It is not a new thing but as education standards continue to decline and the personal responsibility and common sense become things of the past, it continues to get worse.

I think it's noticeably improved in the last decade, but maybe it's just that I'm not out as much? The new style fencing should have made a difference, the run into Cov from Rugby had it early and it seemed to reduce what was a very regular spot.

Be glad its not Ireland - where it seemed a national hobby - or Tunisia, which was like something out of Zulu with kids in top of the embankment on the metre gauge. Strangely the ECS we ended up on later in the week was the only train not to be pelted.

 

[swt_passenger]

It isn't just the railway of course, there have been a number of serious incidents on motorways and roads with pedestrian over bridges.

Strange way of producing some excitement...

 

[najaB]

Lastly I would give them something to do. Kids are bored and wander the streets like pack animals. Again, when I was a young'un we had large playgrounds, parks, clubs, skateparks etc. We had places we could congregate. A lot of those has been removed. Where I live we had a youth center open up and the kids flocked there and suffice to say that the 'lesser spotted hoodie' was seen a lot less.

This more than anything. Boredom is the root of most opportunistic anti-social behaviour like throwing objects at trains.

 

[bramling]

I'm pretty sure that their intent is to hit the train. My personal belief is that they are unaware of the consequences.

How to solve it ?

Well for starters I would clear the detritus from the railway and its environs. A lot of this is opportunity. They see a few bricks, slabs etc by the railways and think, "oooooh lets chuck this over the edge"

Secondly I would educate people on the dangers. NR have an ad campaign for crossings etc but that could easily be extended to vandalism. I would also educate in schools. I know I had various safety education when I was at school and I often say that I grew up in the "play it safe" era.

Lastly I would give them something to do. Kids are bored and wander the streets like pack animals. Again, when I was a young'un we had large playgrounds, parks, clubs, skateparks etc. We had places we could congregate. A lot of those has been removed. Where I live we had a youth center open up and the kids flocked there and suffice to say that the 'lesser spotted hoodie' was seen a lot less.

You will never resolve those who are intent on causing damage.

Seems that parts of South and West Yorkshire seem to be some of the most problematic areas for this (among others).

I don't entirely accept that it's society's fault for not providing enough stimulation for these kids. My local area doesn't have any playground or similar, but I don't see kids going down to the local railway bridge and throwing stones.

The problem is with parents and families allowing their offspring to roam about. Perhaps it could help if punitive measures were taken against parents, the only problem is that in many cases if you fined them they probably couldn't afford to pay it.

Rightly or wrongly I object to my tax potentially being used to fund entertaining other people's children.

 

[GrimsbyPacer]

Trains having objects thrown at them have caused serious problems. The Stourbridge Branch had a train driver hurt and the railbus' window smashed.
But buses are often the easier target for this type of vandal.
I've been on buses hit by: eggs, footballs, pebbles, and one time the bus was literally kicked at Cleethorpes one night, for no reason.

This sort of thing happens daily or weekly depending where you are, it's shocking but not overly rare. To prevent it you need to look at the causes.
So my idea to prevent it would be:
1, people with a criminal record can't buy alcohol for 1 year. This will reduce the chance of drunken violence.
2, the people who throw stuff as they''ve "got nothing else to do" will be given a job which needs doing, drain clearing, painting unpainted metal, relaying uneven paving slabs etc. This will tire them, and give them something meaningful to do.

 

[anme]

It would be an act of terror.

For what political aims?

 

[ComUtoR]

When it comes to safety campaigns you have to strike a balance between giving important information and potentially giving people ideas, I'm sure 99% of kids have never even thought of throwing bricks onto railways but if you say "don't do it" then you will get even more thinking about it.

It's a very common argument. In all honesty I am not sure where I stand.

The main things should be education about stopping distances, electrification, and such.

Its meaningless.

What relevance does the stopping distance have on a kid throwing a brick at a train. I can assure you that they are well aware how fast it can stop. It has been known that they can, and will, pull the passcom on a semi fast only for the train to stop in their station.

Education needs to start from a really young age. I still remember that advert where you saw the girl lying in the road and the camera slowly panning back. I still remember that video about looking out of train windows and the danger of throwing rubbish out.

Many kids take school trips on the railway and they are very very good at traveling. They are briefed on the dangers of going close to the edge and how to board and alight. It is so successful that my own daughter will remind me of the dangers every time we go out.

If you are educating teenagers then its too late. When you are educating adults you are doing it so they become responsible parents/guardians/drivers etc. To be successful at targeting those who deliberately vandalize the railway etc. You need punitive measures. Too many people "get away with it" The Police don't take vandalism seriously and the public outcry if a teen was jailed for "throwing a brick" will just show how little people understand the consequences.

Education for adults needs to be in the form of consequence. We need people to realize that if they are on that train and some idiot throws a brick at the window, quite possibly, their head may be resting against it. That way the public will be pushing for those idiot to be punished and for action to be take to prevent it.

Until then, I'm sorry, nobody cares enough.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I don't entirely accept that it's society's fault for not providing enough stimulation for these kids. My local area doesn't have any playground or similar, but I don't see kids going down to the local railway bridge and throwing stones.

Neither do I. It's part of the problem facing many youth problems. I would also accept your point in that there is a cultural element to it. I would also accept that social deprivation plays a part to.

We also have high density railway down here. There is plenty of opportunity and access to the railway. There is barely enough room to swing a cat before you hit a rai....

 

[matt_world2004]

Netting at Bridges, It would also prevent some suicides.

 

[furnessvale]

I'm pretty sure that their intent is to hit the train. My personal belief is that they are unaware of the consequences.

Not in every case. I know of one case where a brake block was dangled on a rope over a bridge parapet so it was at driver's head height. Unaware? Not in that case.

The driver was seriously injured. When caught, days later, the culprit was found to be a driver's son who had just had an argument with his dad.

 

[341o2]

I have tried to find details of a fatal crash in west London due to a concrete sleeper being placed on the tracks. what comes up is the 1973 incident following a battery box cover opening and striking a platform edge

Yep, motorawy bnridges as well. One funnier incident made the Darwin Awards where this contender found a nice large lump of reinforced concrete, what fun to drop it over the bridge.

As it did so, a metal rod embedded in the concrete caught his pants in the crotch and drivers not only had to contend with falling lumps of concrete, but a body as well

 

[Class 170101]

1, people with a criminal record can't buy alcohol for 1 year. This will reduce the chance of drunken violence.

How do you enforce it? Ask every off license to ask everyone purchasing alcohol to show their criminal record?

Can't see this working.

 

[TailLight]

For what political aims?

More funding for rail and a more frequent revised timetable.

 

[edwin_m]

BR used to run "Q-trains" with police on board and supported by patrols in cars who could intercept anybody seen causing trouble. Does this still happen and if so should it be publicised better? I know Nottingham City Transport do this with buses.

 

[dgl]

some form of permanent dye squirting system that when someone is seen throwing something at a train they get covered and it would be much easier to be caught.

 

[TailLight]

Or simply follow London Underground's example by ensuring all cab glass is bulletproof. Perhaps modify rolling stock to deflect objects on the track.

 

[furnessvale]

BR used to run "Q-trains" with police on board and supported by patrols in cars who could intercept anybody seen causing trouble. Does this still happen and if so should it be publicised better? I know Nottingham City Transport do this with buses.

When I was a BTP PC at a one man station, I used to run out in the cab in DMUs on the branches.

A quick emergency stop by a service train often caught the yobs out!

Mind you, I did know a driver who did an emergency stop, caught a lad who had been putting stuff on the line and had a bike with him. He asked the lad if he knew what happened when a train ran over stuff on the line.

The lad made the mistake of saying "no" so the driver put his bike on the line and drove over it!

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

For what political aims?

Some groups of youths have been taking an evil delight into causing terror to elderly people for many years. Just because a Google definition of terror makes reference to "political ends" loses the true meaning of what terror can mean to those of advanced years.

 

[anme]

Some groups of youths have been taking an evil delight into causing terror to elderly people for many years. Just because a Google definition of terror makes reference to "political ends" loses the true meaning of what terror can mean to those of advanced years.

We are discussing the use of the word "terrorism", not the word "terror". Terrorism is a political philosophy which aims to use "terror" to achieve political aims. It seems to me more likely that the groups of youths (or others) in question are more likely doing this for amusement, and not for political aims. Therefore, whatever else it is, it is not terrorism.

 

[DasLunatic]

Just air this during a commercial break.

Simples!