Omicron variant and the measures implemented in response to it

[GC class B1]

Posting # 3,139 stated that two of the lady's four sons had been vaccinated and the other two had not been vaccinated

I don’t understand your point.

 

[DustyBin]

Posting # 3,139 stated that two of the lady's four sons had been vaccinated and the other two had not been vaccinated

You realise you can still test positive if you’re vaccinated don’t you? (Apologies if I’ve missed your point!).

 

[GC class B1]

You realise you can still test positive if you’re vaccinated don’t you? (Apologies if I’ve missed your point!).

You have missed my point completely. My point was that one suggestion was that vaccination made the symptoms of covid less severe. The lady’s sons experience suggested that Omicron was less severe whether you had been vaccinated or not and supports the view that with the Omicron variant, Covid 19 has mutated to become more like one of the coronaviruses that cause the common cold. This is as would be expected and supports the view that we should reduce testing for covid 19 and treat it is as a ‘common cold’.

 

[DustyBin]

You have missed my point completely. My point was that one suggestion was that vaccination made the symptoms of covid less severe. The lady’s sons experience suggested that Omicron was less severe whether you had been vaccinated or not and supports the view that with the Omicron variant, Covid 19 has mutated to become more like one of the coronaviruses that cause the common cold. This is as would be expected and supports the view that we should reduce testing for covid 19 and treat it is as a ‘common cold’.

I was replying to @Xenophon PCDGS!

 

[GC class B1]

I was replying to @Xenophon PCDGS!

Sorry, I lost the plot.

 

[DustyBin]

Sorry, I lost the plot.

You’ll be invited onto SAGE shortly!

 

[Berliner]

Cold-like symptoms are usually the effect of the common cold, should anyone have forgotten that fact. Why did they believe those symptoms were anything else?

Indeed I know a few people who have had cold symptoms over the festive period, tested a few times anyway and always came back negative.

People seem to forget that there are other things out there too.

 

[Darandio]

Indeed I know a few people who have had cold symptoms over the festive period, tested a few times anyway and always came back negative.

People seem to forget that there are other things out there too.

They forget because they are still constantly bombarded with messaging telling them otherwise. Only three days ago multiple news outlets ran pieces on a study from Zoe which said three quarters of those with cold symptoms were likely to have Covid.

 

[D1537]

Very few children have had more than mild effects from any of the variants. This is the key reason why vaccinating them in the first place was controversial. The fact that they all caught it somewhat supports the view that Omicron has rendered child vaccination for Covid even more pointless than it already was

If they are more likely to catch it, though, there are more likely to be bigger outbreaks at schools (and children, not being double-vaxxed, need to isolate for 10 days).

The bigger problem is that if they are more likely to catch and transmit it, there is a higher chance of them passing it to school staff with the disruption that will cause.

I see Javid has told workplaces to plan for 10%, 20% and 25% staff absences.

We could - just about - cope with 10%. 20% would be a year group sent home. 25% would probably be two year groups.

 

[Horizon22]

The BBC is reporting workplaces have been told to plan for absences of up to 25% and organise "robust contingency plans". As stated this has already affected many areas, including the railway. - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-59848109

Ministers have been tasked with developing "robust contingency plans" for workplace absences, as the government warned rising cases could see up to a quarter of staff off work.
Public sector leaders have been asked to prepare for "worst case scenarios" of 10%, 20% and 25% absence rates, the Cabinet Office said.
The UK has seen record numbers of daily cases over the festive period.
Transport, the NHS and schools have already seen the effect of absences.
Rising case numbers have led to large numbers self-isolating and being unable to go to work. This has particularly affected industries where staff are unable to work from home.

For me this is probably now the biggest threat of Covid - not necessarily large death rates or hospitalisations (so long as vaccine rates continue to rise) but staff absences in key sectors due to isolation or mild/moderate sickness that prevents critical roles being carried out.

A good summation, however in my experience the "swivel eyed loons" tend to be on the pro restrictions side and will come up with some sophistry to prove the WHO was wrong then and correct now.

Meanwhile the country and the railways in particular, grind to a halt over the common cold.

It's no coincidence that the sectors worst affected by staff absence are those most likely to pay out full or nearly full pay for their wee 10 day holidays.

The "swivel eyed loons" don't give a toss about the real suffering they are supporting, the thousands of cancer victims who have and will die needlessly because of the stupidity which they support.

Truly as Mark Twain said "it's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled".

Or those where people can't physically work from home. These tend to be more front-facing roles which have historically had relatively decent conditions. I think correlation does not equal causation here. Many staff I know isolating are bored out of their skulls and are fairly eager to return.

 

[D1537]

Or those where people can't physically work from home. These tend to be more front-facing roles which have historically had relatively decent conditions. I think correlation does not equal causation here. Many staff I know isolating are bored out of their skulls and are fairly eager to return.

Certainly our staff who have had to isolate have been unhappy because they think they're loading more pressure onto their colleagues. We have plans in place for the new term where isolating staff, if they're not unwell, can run video lessons from home to students in the classroom, but that still requires an adult in the room so if there's too much absence there are still going to be problems.

 

[Smidster]

What we should remember over the next couple of weeks is that a large part of the staff shortages will be a direct consequence of Government policy around isolation and asymptomatic testing.

If people are sick and have symptoms then of course they should take time to recover, as with any other illness, and should avoid contact with others as much as possible, as with any other illness.

But people who are, for all intents and purposes, perfectly fit and able to do their jobs should not be kept in isolation at this point

 

[Horizon22]

What we should remember over the next couple of weeks is that a large part of the staff shortages will be a direct consequence of Government policy around isolation and asymptomatic testing.

If people are sick and have symptoms then of course they should take time to recover, as with any other illness, and should avoid contact with others as much as possible, as with any other illness.

But people who are, for all intents and purposes, perfectly fit and able to do their jobs should not be kept in isolation at this point

I would agree generally but of course its hard to predict exactly who will/won't get sick and have symptoms. In addition, if you didn't have symptoms you could come into work and potentially infect someone who did then go on to have symptoms and thus causing the net result of the absence to be zero, even though you've tried to bring someone into work to be productive.

Ultimately as you say this won't be resolved under current guidance, but we would need to take care either way; it's just about how best to do it logistically that doesn't decimate the workforce.

 

[brad465]

What we should remember over the next couple of weeks is that a large part of the staff shortages will be a direct consequence of Government policy around isolation and asymptomatic testing.

If people are sick and have symptoms then of course they should take time to recover, as with any other illness, and should avoid contact with others as much as possible, as with any other illness.

But people who are, for all intents and purposes, perfectly fit and able to do their jobs should not be kept in isolation at this point

That's not the only policy that has caused staff shortages, the failure to fill all the NHS staff shortages and in other sectors has ultimately reduced initial resilience. These can be put down to poor pay and conditions discouraging recruitment and retention, and Brexit immigration policy.

 

[D1537]

What we should remember over the next couple of weeks is that a large part of the staff shortages will be a direct consequence of Government policy around isolation and asymptomatic testing.

If people are sick and have symptoms then of course they should take time to recover, as with any other illness, and should avoid contact with others as much as possible, as with any other illness.

But people who are, for all intents and purposes, perfectly fit and able to do their jobs should not be kept in isolation at this point

Double-vaxxed people (and under-18s) who have been close contacts of confirmed cases do not have to self-isolate, they can LFT for 7 days. Unless you're suggesting that positive asymptomatic cases shouldn't have to isolate (!)

 

[takno]

I would agree generally but of course its hard to predict exactly who will/won't get sick and have symptoms. In addition, if you didn't have symptoms you could come into work and potentially infect someone who did then go on to have symptoms and thus causing the net result of the absence to be zero, even though you've tried to bring someone into work to be productive.

Ultimately as you say this won't be resolved under current guidance, but we would need to take care either way; it's just about how best to do it logistically that doesn't decimate the workforce.

I don't envy anybody who has to make smart decisions at this point, but the balance does seem to have shifted now. There are so many people walking around with asymptomatic undiagnosed Covid that pretty much anybody capable of getting it is going to get it, and soon. Adding the positive-but-asymptomatic into the mix isn't going to make a whole lot of difference to people's threat of catching Covid.

 

[DustyBin]

Double-vaxxed people (and under-18s) who have been close contacts of confirmed cases do not have to self-isolate, they can LFT for 7 days. Unless you're suggesting that positive asymptomatic cases shouldn't have to isolate(!)

Ultimately that’s where we need to head; not right now but over the next year IMO.

 

[island]

Double-vaxxed people (and under-18s) who have been close contacts of confirmed cases do not have to self-isolate, they can LFT for 7 days.

They do not have to test for 7 days, or at all (in England at least); that is guidance and not law.

 

[initiation]

I can see the isolation requirement dropping say to 5 days like in the US. Obviously if you are still ill, stay at home but otherwise crack on.

 

[NorthKent1989]

Isolation if you have no symptoms needs to end, being off work when you’re perfectly healthy is pure nonsensical.

 

[Berliner]

Isolation if you have no symptoms needs to end, being off work when you’re perfectly healthy is pure nonsensical.

Especially seeing as how out in the workplace most people will have been triple vaxxed. That really is the best we can do to protect people. If some still think they can't face the world then that's their choice to make, but it should not he the normal option. If you have it and show no symptoms then staying off work, especially if you're a key worker, is absolutely ridiculous this far along. We have multiple working vaccines, drugs to treat this and the health care system still isn't buckling. It's time we normalise Covid and treat it like anything else that could potentially kill someone, but barely affect the vast majority.

 

[Horizon22]

Isolation if you have no symptoms needs to end, being off work when you’re perfectly healthy is pure nonsensical.

But as mentioned you could then infect someone purely accidentally and give them symptoms, meaning the net result of absence is no different. Not sure how that is resolved besides general Covid cleaning measures & social distancing.

If that is the way we go so be it, but I sincerely doubt it's going to improve workplace absence.

 

[NorthKent1989]

But as mentioned you could then infect someone purely accidentally and give them symptoms, meaning the net result of absence is no different. Not sure how that is resolved besides general Covid cleaning measures & social distancing.

If that is the way we go so be it, but I sincerely doubt it's going to improve workplace absence.

We just have to press forward now, we cannot keep living like this, we will get back to normal and handle this.

Especially seeing as how out in the workplace most people will have been triple vaxxed. That really is the best we can do to protect people. If some still think they can't face the world then that's their choice to make, but it should not he the normal option. If you have it and show no symptoms then staying off work, especially if you're a key worker, is absolutely ridiculous this far along. We have multiple working vaccines, drugs to treat this and the health care system still isn't buckling. It's time we normalise Covid and treat it like anything else that could potentially kill someone, but barely affect the vast majority.

Exactly, we are in a far different place from last year even, 2022 is the year we should start living with Covid and normalise it like the cold and flu, if you have symptoms by all means stay off work.

 

[DustyBin]

But as mentioned you could then infect someone purely accidentally and give them symptoms, meaning the net result of absence is no different. Not sure how that is resolved besides general Covid cleaning measures & social distancing.

If that is the way we go so be it, but I sincerely doubt it's going to improve workplace absence.

Ultimately we need to move to a situation whereby unless you’re actually ill (mild symptoms therefore don’t count!) you are expected to carry on largely as normal. Obviously if you have symptoms you may choose to avoid visiting elderly relatives for example, but you should do that with any illness.

I appreciate that sounds unthinkable to some people but I can’t see any alternative in the long(er) term.

 

[Horizon22]

We just have to press forward now, we cannot keep living like this, we will get back to normal and handle this.

Ultimately we need to move to a situation whereby unless you’re actually ill (mild symptoms therefore don’t count!) you are expected to carry on largely as normal. Obviously if you have symptoms you may choose to avoid visiting elderly relatives for example, but you should do that with any illness.

I appreciate that sounds unthinkable to some people but I can’t see any alternative in the long(er) term.

Fair enough its a completely valid opinion. I just don't think its going to have a noticeable impact on reducing staff absences because of Covid and that will be a consequence to accept (because of the risk of infection by covid positive but asymptomatic people to those that then get symptoms). In which case, we will have to take that into account for some time to come.

I'm not sure its quantifiable, but its certainly a reasonable number. What % of Omicron cases are producing zero symptoms (either after 0 or 7 days)? Has research been done on this yet?

 

[Berliner]

Ultimately we need to move to a situation whereby unless you’re actually ill (mild symptoms therefore don’t count!) you are expected to carry on largely as normal. Obviously if you have symptoms you may choose to avoid visiting elderly relatives for example, but you should do that with any illness.

I appreciate that sounds unthinkable to some people but I can’t see any alternative in the long(er) term.

Exactly. My main objection to this blanket "isolation if you are positive" situation is that it still seems like the government is trying to stop the spread of something that has already become firmly embedded in the UK when we are seeing around 100k cases a day and those numbers are simply not causing the healthcare system to keel over. Far fewer people are ending up in hospital beds and those who do are spending far less time in them due to the success of the vaccines, the approval of treatments, and the fact that the dominant strain is now so much weaker to the point that it is basically a cold. It's high time we moved back to "Wash your hands for 20 seconds" and "catch it, kill it, bin it", advice which is how we have dealt with such things in the past.

 

[DustyBin]

Fair enough its a completely valid opinion. I just don't think its going to have a noticeable impact on reducing staff absences because of Covid and that will be a consequence to accept (because of the risk of infection by covid positive but asymptomatic people to those that then get symptoms). In which case, we will have to take that into account for some time to come.

I’m working on the basis that immunity levels continue to increase through natural infection and/or vaccination and therefore fewer and fewer people develop symptoms to the point of being ill (in the traditional sense). My Fiancée and I are both infected currently and whilst we are symptomatic I wouldn’t say we’re ill by any means. I feel well enough to go for a run or go to the gym but obviously can’t and won’t!

I'm not sure its quantifiable, but its certainly a reasonable number. What % of Omicron cases are producing zero symptoms (either after 0 or 7 days)? Has research been done on this yet?

Pass I’m afraid but I’d be interested to know.

 

[greyman42]

Well to be honest, those who value freedoms have been pretty spot on so far in terms of how in 2020 they predicted vaccine passports and the fact that two jabs would never be enough, unlike the pro restrictions crowd who have only cried Wolf at every time.

I have not been asked for my vaccine passport for anything yet.

 

[DustyBin]

I have not been asked for my vaccine passport for anything yet.

Go clubbing much?

 

[greyman42]

Go clubbing much?

Those days are behind me, but what else would i be asked to produce it for in "normal life"?