Omicron variant and the measures implemented in response to it

[STINT47]

To sum up if we all get our jabs then once the role out has been done we can drop restrictions and return to normal life.

Hang on wasn't that the same message they told us this time last year?

 

[danm14]

To sum up if we all get our jabs then once the role out has been done we can drop restrictions and return to normal life.

Yes, from what I can deduce from the Times article today, the plan is that once we all get ∞ vaccines, and the roll out of ∞ vaccines has finished, we can drop restrictions and return to normal life.

On an entirely unrelated note, ∞ + 1 = ∞

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

To sum up if we all get our jabs then once the role out has been done we can drop restrictions and return to normal life.

Hang on wasn't that the same message they told us this time last year?

Was the booster jab mentioned in December 2020?

 

[Eyersey468]

The Times is reporting that the 1.5% NI increase may not go towards Social Care, and will instead go towards indefinite booster vaccines for the entire population every 3-6 months.



https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/...d-pay-for-endless-booster-programme-kwtv93rxc (https://archive.li/8jp30)

The Times is reporting that the 1.5% NI increase may not go towards Social Care, and will instead go towards indefinite booster vaccines for the entire population every 3-6 months.



https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/...d-pay-for-endless-booster-programme-kwtv93rxc (https://archive.li/8jp30)

My concern was that they were going to expect us all to keep having boosters every few months for the rest of time, which I can't see the point of.

 

[dave87016]

For me personally I would rather die going about life as normal as possible rather than let boris and his cronies have their way and never set foot out the door again

If it’s true that the goverment have had this “lightbulb “ idea to use the N.I increase to fund the indefinite booster programme then why is it so hard for the goverment to have a “lightbulb “ moment and invest in the NHS to make sure it can cope especially aa we have to learn to live with covid and there will no doubt be new variants

 

[DelayRepay]

If it’s true that the goverment have had this “lightbulb “ idea to use the N.I increase to fund the indefinite booster programme then why is it so hard for the goverment to have a “lightbulb “ moment and invest in the NHS to make sure it can cope especially aa we have to learn to live with covid and there will no doubt be new variants

I'm not convinced we need an ongoing booster programme. I still think it'll end up like the flu jab, where those who are more vulnerable get one from the NHS, and anyone else can get a private one from the pharmacy.

 

[yorkie]

Have been trying to follow this closely. Do you have a source please?

Here is one such source (there are others):

https://twitter.com/TheLawyerCraig/status/1470088755432374273

Bad and good #Covid19 news coming from South Africa and Gauteng today. Bad: Looks like today is going to be the backlog catch-up day from the IT-based reporting issue. Big positive case dump. Good: Total cases 12/10-12/12 was only up 10.9% over Fri-Sun last week.

Unknown: whether the IT issue has been fully resolved at this point (or do we get another dump tomorrow?). Hopefully not, and this would be in line with the trend for the past week or so of the rate of Gauteng's case increase rapidly shrinking

 

[GC class B1]

I don’t understand the maths here with the booster jabs by the end of December. There have been about 46 million second doses and about 23 million booster doses. Therefore there needs to be 23 million booster jabs in 19 days. As it is a case of ramping up to 1 million a day, then the total by the end of December will only be about 16 million at best.

 

[Towers]

National Insurance contribution/National Injections contribution!

And so there, finally, we have it; jabs forever. I imagine there'll be one or two among us here who are over the moon at that prospect, however let's hope that the level headed majority of the British population will be rightly disgusted at the sort of society that we are now staring in the face. This madness surely has to be brought to an end soon.

I don’t understand the maths here with the booster jabs by the end of December. There have been about 46 million second doses and about 23 million booster doses. Therefore there needs to be 23 million booster jabs in 19 days. As it is a case of ramping up to 1 million a day, then the total by the end of December will only be about 16 million at best.

Just, whatever you do, don't find yourself in need of the NHS any time soon

 

[Smidster]

The fact the NI increase isn't all going to Social Care is not news - It was always the case that the first 2-3 years it was going into the NHS for elective recovery and there really is no plan to fix social care but that is another topic.

Tell you something - Ignorance truly is bliss. I was away this weekend at an concert on Saturday enjoying being tightly packed with a few hundred others and all very normal (though does also emphasise the utter stupidity of wearing a mask in a hotel corridor but never mind)

Then yesterday had a self imposed media blackout as wanted to avoid spoilers on the F1 before I could get home to watch it so had no idea about the latest Bozo speech or people over-analysing every data point out of either the NHS or those who are suddenly experts on the Gauteng province health / IT system.

Unfortunately that is my last such distraction until the middle of January - It is now back to the reality of working from home and when you are not actively doing something it is pretty much impossible to avoid when you are basically on the internet all day every day.

So yeah - ignore the nonsense as much as you can...It really isn't doing you any good

 

[DustyBin]

I thought it was announced that Boris was on paternity leave, clearly popping back up to try and get some good media coverage

But if there are restrictions, how about less restrictions for the over 40% who have had a booster (carrot and stick approach, to getting jabs), or tighter restrictions for those not upto date with jabs. Doesn’t give any incentive if treated same once you have got yours.

So a reward for the most compliant then? This idea sounds strangely familiar……

The new variant might be more “mild” but that isn’t the issue: it’s more transmissible. It doesn’t matter if people aren’t dying from this. If too many people need to be admitted to hospital at once the NHS will collapse and you can kiss goodbye to ever coming anywhere close to eliminating the current waiting lists.

Why would too many people be admitted to hospital at once if it causes mild illness?

 

[westv]

I've just booked my booster and, while I see the value in this booster, it will be my final* one for the foreseeable future.

I am not going to get an annual booster. Respected virologists deem it unnecessary; natural exposure to the virus will act as a booster in future, as is the case with existing Coronaviruses.

(* Unless I need more for international travel)

I think that's probably my view too.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

No-one ever seemed all that bothered going for a flu jab every year.

 

[westv]

No-one ever seemed all that bothered going for a flu jab every year.

So far I have never had that.

 

[richa2002]

No-one ever seemed all that bothered going for a flu jab every year.

Probably because it was entirely voluntary with zero coercion.

 

[Towers]

No-one ever seemed all that bothered going for a flu jab every year.

If you had a flu jab, and then you had to return for another within weeks, and then you were told you needed a 'booster' within a couple of months, and then you were told some people need a fourth, and then there was the clear prospect of forcing people to 'comply' whether they wanted it or not, and then it emerged that the government were potentially diverting tax increases in order to give them to everybody every few months indefinitely.... would you still feel the same?

There are zero similarities between the vaccination strategies for flu and for Covid. Which is odd, considering all the similarities between the risk that both illnesses pose to people.

 

[DustyBin]

No-one ever seemed all that bothered going for a flu jab every year.

I think the other posters have covered it but the two aren’t remotely similar.

 

[Typhoon]

Probably because it was entirely voluntary with zero coercion.

Exactly. Flu: letter from the surgery in the autumn. If I went to the surgery dates for flu jabs were on a rolling screen in the waiting room, alongside stop smoking and other clinics. If I didn't book, nothing happened.

Covid: two letters (NHS and surgery) and a reminder (even though they knew I was self-isolating because of symptoms). A seemingly weekly diet of politicians I don't trust and (supposed) experts telling me to get this that or the other jab. Adverts in newspapers and (I believe) TV. I don't think I am alone in reacting badly to being told what to do and when to do it. Nudge theory may work for some but not all, and this isn't 'nudge', it is 'shove'.

(I know the reminder would be automatic, but it just adds to the irritation.)

 

[dave87016]

In the space of a week we have gone from boris saying it will take 2-3 weeks before we find out things about omicron variant to restrictions placed on our freedoms plan B implemented and talks of plans C and D the latter probably mounts to a lockdown without goverment using the actual words

the way boris has gone about things from day 1 of this pandemic this could be a soap opera a mix of Mr Bean meets Holby City

 

[adc82140]

So far, my wife has been called by the surgery 3 times, had two letters and numerous text messages. She will get a booster in the new year, but just hasn't got the time to have a day of scheduled illness between now and Christmas. She has had 2x jabs, and also a nasty run in with Covid, so her antibody level will be rather high already.

 

[brad465]

From what I'm seeing NHS staff who will be involved in this ramped up booster programme, found out they would be involved in doing this at exactly the same time the rest of the population did, which shows just how desperate Johnson is.

 

[BackOnTheTrain]

So a reward for the most compliant then? This idea sounds strangely familiar……



Why would too many people be admitted to hospital at once if it causes mild illness?

Because a small % of a very large number can be more than a high % of a very low number.

I am really hoping that hindsight shows we jumped the gun this time around.

According to my GP they find out about these changes at the same time as the rest of us — as official guidance is only sent to them *after* the TV announcements.

 

[MikeWM]

National Insurance contribution/National Injections contribution!

And so there, finally, we have it; jabs forever. I imagine there'll be one or two among us here who are over the moon at that prospect, however let's hope that the level headed majority of the British population will be rightly disgusted at the sort of society that we are now staring in the face. This madness surely has to be brought to an end soon.

And not only 'jabs forever' but a never-ending cycle:

- new variant emerges
- restrictions 'while we tweak the vaccine'. Or maybe without the 'tweaking' part - as now, where we just put more of the same into people in the vague hope it does something positive
- rushed vaccine rollout for everyone (while other treatment is postponed or cancelled entirely)
- with people excluded from society via 'vaccine passports' unless they have this one on top of all the other ones

Repeat 2, 3, or 4 times a year. Forever.

And all for a disease that, had we done literally nothing at all, would have killed 2 to 3 people per 1000 - most of whom were already very elderly or very ill.

I think most people do see there is something really wrong here now, or at the least they are starting to 'wake up'. The question is what can be done about it.

 

[Towers]

So far, my wife has been called by the surgery 3 times, had two letters and numerous text messages. She will get a booster in the new year, but just hasn't got the time to have a day of scheduled illness between now and Christmas. She has had 2x jabs, and also a nasty run in with Covid, so her antibody level will be rather high already.

My other half is due for hers on the 22nd. She doesn't particularly want to be ill over Christmas, and she knows various people who've had it and said they felt rough for about 3 days afterwards. I think she'll likely postpone it.

A thought here; I'm reading that the immune system is supressed for a period following the vaccine, as it starts to get to grips with it being in the body. A couple of weeks of being at increased vulnerability follows, I believe? Does this not surely mean then that jabbing the entire population immediately before the biggest social gatherings of the year is likely to result in a massive increase in cases caused purely as a result of the vaccine itself?

 

[4-SUB 4732]

And not only 'jabs forever' but a never-ending cycle:

- new variant emerges
- restrictions 'while we tweak the vaccine'. Or maybe without the 'tweaking' part - as now, where we just put more of the same into people in the vague hope it does something positive
- rushed vaccine rollout for everyone (while other treatment is postponed or cancelled entirely)
- with people excluded from society via 'vaccine passports' unless they have this one on top of all the other ones

Repeat 2, 3, or 4 times a year. Forever.

And all for a disease that, had we done literally nothing at all, would have killed 2 to 3 people per 1000 - most of whom were already very elderly or very ill.

I think most people do see there is something really wrong here now, or at the least they are starting to 'wake up'. The question is what can be done about it.

The key part is the “waking up”.

The reason I suspect for the rush for vaccines is that it is designed to deliberately stop hospital admissions in order that the government can’t be found so badly wanting with such a knackered NHS. It’s not a conspiracy.

But by removing liberties at the drop of a hat we set a terrible precedent. And now, a variant we believe we know is effectively a gift, and we still go nuclear.

People just need to say “no” to any further measures, openly disobey them, go to work if they don’t need to, and such. Prove that the government has no control.

 

[4-SUB 4732]

My other half is due for hers on the 22nd. She doesn't particularly want to be ill over Christmas, and she knows various people who've had it and said they felt rough for about 3 days afterwards. I think she'll likely postpone it.

A thought here; I'm reading that the immune system is supressed for a period following the vaccine, as it starts to get to grips with it being in the body. A couple of weeks of being at increased vulnerability follows, I believe? Does this not surely mean then that jabbing the entire population immediately before the biggest social gatherings of the year is likely to result in a massive increase in cases caused purely as a result of the vaccine itself?

Don’t talk common sense.

It’s a bit like the figures for people who get the vaccine and then are COVID positive. They are and they aren’t, but those numbers are part of justifying lockdowns and such!

 

[DustyBin]

Because a small % of a very large number can be more than a high % of a very low number.

I am really hoping that hindsight shows we jumped the gun this time around.

According to my GP they find out about these changes at the same time as the rest of us — as official guidance is only sent to them *after* the TV announcements.

I get that but I’ve seen nothing to suggest that it won’t be a very very small percentage of a (potentially) large number.

The problem (if there is one) is likely to be that large numbers of people are admitted for other reasons, test positive, and are then used to prop up the claim that omicron is overwhelming the NHS. A lot more will catch it in hospital as well of course.

 

[BackOnTheTrain]

And all for a disease that, had we done literally nothing at all, would have killed 2 to 3 people per 1000 - most of whom were already very elderly or very ill.

Oh for crying out loud. It was never just about deaths. Ever.

If nothing was done where exactly would all those people who needed hospital help to *survive* Covid-19 go? There would be more of them than we’ve actually had.

Where do all the other people who need a bed in hospital go when the beds are taken up with folk on oxygen due to Covid? How do people get cancer surgery or trauma surgery when there are no intensive care beds available because Covid-19 folk are in them? And there’s a lot of surgery that requires an intensive care bed to be available even if it’s not actually expected to be used, too.

 

[MikeWM]

My other half is due for hers on the 22nd. She doesn't particularly want to be ill over Christmas, and she knows various people who've had it and said they felt rough for about 3 days afterwards. I think she'll likely postpone it.

Yes, that'll be fun 4 times a year for everymore. This appears to change the risk-benefit balance for many people - for most, it seems to me now that it would be preferable to risk getting a single case of Covid and good long-lasting wide natural immunity, compared with dozens of vaccinations for the rest of their lives.

I continue to become more and more convinced that my decision to stay away from the vaccine program entirely, at least for the short-term, was correct.

A thought here; I'm reading that the immune system is supressed for a period following the vaccine, as it starts to get to grips with it being in the body. A couple of weeks of being at increased vulnerability follows, I believe? Does this not surely mean then that jabbing the entire population immediately before the biggest social gatherings of the year is likely to result in a massive increase in cases caused purely as a result of the vaccine itself?

I think that makes sense - we've probably all had the experience of two colds in quick succession, and suspected the second one has got hold while the body was fighting the first one.

I worry that continually telling your body again and again that there is only one thing it needs to be fighting may (a) eventually reduce its ability to fight other things and (b) potentially over-react if it does actually come into contact with that thing (leading to things like ADE, which has been a big concern of mine all along with these vaccines).

That doesn't apply to the flu vaccine - though I've never had that either - because the flu vaccine is different every year, as there are many really rather different strains of flu.


---

Oh for crying out loud. It was never just about deaths. Ever.

If nothing was done where exactly would all those people who needed hospital help to *survive* Covid-19 go? There would be more of them than we’ve actually had.

Where do all the other people who need a bed in hospital go when the beds are taken up with folk on oxygen due to Covid? How do people get cancer surgery or trauma surgery when there are no intensive care beds available because Covid-19 folk are in them? And there’s a lot of surgery that requires an intensive care bed to be available even if it’s not actually expected to be used, too.

I seem to remember a thing called Nightingale hospitals, which was one of the very few sensible things this government actually did right back at the start of all this.

 

[BackOnTheTrain]

I get that but I’ve seen nothing to suggest that it won’t be a very very small percentage of a (potentially) large number.

The problem (if there is one) is likely to be that large numbers of people are admitted for other reasons, test positive, and are then used to prop up the claim that omicron is overwhelming the NHS. A lot more will catch it in hospital as well of course.

I think there’s some doubt over how the South Africa data applies to us — we have a fatter and older population than they have.

I do think that the advice should have been rather more nuanced than it is. WFH advised for CEV households only, rather than everyone. There doesn’t seem to be any distinction made for those most vulnerable this time around.