Omicron variant and the measures implemented in response to it

[Huntergreed]

Of course Scotland is just “considering” the change and will probably mandate the tests (or a second PCR) or something daft like that.

Does fully vaccinated mean 3 doses or 2 in this instance?

 

[yorkie]

London could be a bit of an outlier anyway on account a comparatively low vaccination rate, so I'm not at all sure that rates of hospitalisation If they do turn out to be on the high side there (something I doubt anyway) will necessarily be replicated elsewhere across the country.

True though London has a younger population but I am unsure to what extent these factors cancel each other out. I don't think anyone would reasonably argue that if London can't cope that means there is a guarantee other places can't, but I think it's fair to say that if London can cope then there is every reason to assume other places will too. Also perhaps a bigger factor is that the virus spreads a bit quicker i.e. the peak is more likely to happen sooner and perhaps be a shorter duration in places where population density is very high.

Of course Scotland is just “considering” the change and will probably mandate the tests (or a second PCR) or something daft like that.

Does fully vaccinated mean 3 doses or 2 in this instance?

Two doses is deemed full, and that should never change in my opinion.

 

[yorksrob]

True though London has a younger population but I am unsure to what extent these factors cancel each other out. I don't think anyone would reasonably argue that if London can't cope that means there is a guarantee other places can't, but I think it's fair to say that if London can cope then there is every reason to assume other places will too. Also perhaps a bigger factor is that the virus spreads a bit quicker i.e. the peak is more likely to happen sooner and perhaps be a shorter duration in places where population density is very high.

Indeed. I think that all of those factors will play a part, but as you say, it's fair to summise that if London copes, everywhere else is as likely, if not moreso to.

 

[4-SUB 4732]

Me too, and Fraser Nelson deserves a knighthood.

That he does if he uncovered the golden bullet that emboldened the cabinet to torpedo the scientists for the first and, hopefully, final time.

 

[Class 33]

The i are reporting that if daily hospital admissions in London with covid remain below 400 a day by the end of this week, new restrictions in England could be avoided (the latest daily value is 245), citing London as being ahead in the Omicron wave:

New Covid restrictions could be avoided if hospital admissions in London do not soar this week

There are signs that Omicron cases in the capital and across the UK could be plateauing - but remain at a high level

inews.co.uk

The last time London saw at least 400 admissions a day was everyday between the 20/12/20-01/02/21, all before the vaccine was widespread. The number is rising at the moment and has a bit of room before hitting 400, so one to keep watching:

https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/healthcare?areaType=nhsRegion&areaName=London

View attachment 107442

If that is the strategy, then there's a pretty good chance there won't be any more restrictions imposed for after Christmas. However I don't fully trust Johnson, and I'm expecting he will probably announce more restrictions either tonight or tomorrow.

 

[kristiang85]

Agreed
The situation with my NHS dentist is astonishing
I had a checkup a few weeks ago and was sent for an all round head scan
Yesterday I went in to followw up
2 Receptionists
First asks my date of birth
I ask second what are the chances of an appointment soon
She says no appointments what ever available but call 101 if you need urgent treatment
First dentist says you are under treatment so what about tomorrow 12.45
Can you do Thursday by any chance I say
Sure 09.45
I wonder if the same people who closed all the dedicated Covid hubs in Hillingdon are running this

Last time when I had toothache I called 101 who tried to tell me to get a temp filling from a chemist despite the fact that the Dentist had told me they were completely unbooked that afternoon but I needed to go through 101 so effectively these jackkasses are paying dentists to do nothing
I fortunately was able to make 101 see the error of their ways
I wonder how many people with infested roots are infesting A and E departments to get antibiotics because of this kind of stupidity

I've given up on NHS dentistry. I've found a lovely private one locally who got me in fairly quickly when I had a tooth problem the other week. The cost isn't outrageous either.

 

[brad465]

There's a joke circulating around at the moment that maybe worth sharing here: "The only involvement SAGE will have in my Christmas is in the stuffing."

 

[3rd rail land]

Agreed
The situation with my NHS dentist is astonishing
I had a checkup a few weeks ago and was sent for an all round head scan
Yesterday I went in to followw up
2 Receptionists
First asks my date of birth
I ask second what are the chances of an appointment soon
She says no appointments what ever available but call 101 if you need urgent treatment
First dentist says you are under treatment so what about tomorrow 12.45
Can you do Thursday by any chance I say
Sure 09.45
I wonder if the same people who closed all the dedicated Covid hubs in Hillingdon are running this

Last time when I had toothache I called 101 who tried to tell me to get a temp filling from a chemist despite the fact that the Dentist had told me they were completely unbooked that afternoon but I needed to go through 101 so effectively these jackkasses are paying dentists to do nothing
I fortunately was able to make 101 see the error of their ways
I wonder how many people with infested roots are infesting A and E departments to get antibiotics because of this kind of stupidity

The NHS is under resourced for the amount of work it has on but its doing itself no favours with this level of inefficiency.

Fortunately the dental surgery a few minutes walk from my place offers NHS services and is very good. They have a hard working receptionist and my orthodontist was very impressed with the quality of work performed by the general dentist.
If I needed an emergency appointment I know I can ring at any time during their opening hours and make an appointment. It's only when they have no appointments available do you get directed to 101. I only know this because I have overhead the receptionist whilst I was sitting in the waiting area.

 

[dave87016]

Please forgive me if this comes across as me being thick but something that has made me wonder from the beginning

say for example on Monday 93,890 is the number reported on Monday , Tuesday 95,890 is reported bearing in mind that each day they say “ a further “ is that a 95,890 in addition to the 93,890 reported on Monday or is it 2,000 ? From the wording and boris says it comes across as the former but in my mind it is the latter

 

[DustyBin]

Please forgive me if this comes across as me being thick but something that has made me wonder from the beginning

say for example on Monday 93,890 is the number reported on Monday , Tuesday 95,890 is reported bearing in mind that each day they say “ a further “ is that a 95,890 in addition to the 93,890 reported on Monday or is it 2,000 ? From the wording and boris says it comes across as the former but in my mind it is the latter

It's the former.

 

[John Luxton]

I've given up on NHS dentistry. I've found a lovely private one locally who got me in fairly quickly when I had a tooth problem the other week. The cost isn't outrageous either.

I ended up with a private dentist as a youngster at the end of the 1960s.

My mother was very unsatisfied with our NHS "butcher".

Always appeared to be filling my teeth.

He told my father he would be better off having all his teeth removed and replaced with dentures. Unfortunately my father went along with it. I will never forget him picking me up from school in the car with blood coming out of his mouth.

My mother just couldn't understand why my father allowed him to do this.

That was the breaking point with my family and NHS dentistry.

She just took me and herself to a chap who had just started a private and was a customer in our shop would have been around 1969/70.

I still go to his successor and have had excellent service - generally nothing usually more than a scrape and polish three times a year and an x-ray every two years.

Always easy to get appointments. He did have to close for a while during the initial lockdown in 2020 but was soon back up and running.

Must be around 10 years since he did anything major and that was crowning on a tooth I managed break eating porky scratchings!

Have avoided them since as that turned out to be a very expensive bag of scratchings!

John

 

[kristiang85]

I ended up with a private dentist as a youngster at the end of the 1960s.

My mother was very unsatisfied with our NHS "butcher".

Always appeared to be filling my teeth.

He told my father he would be better off having all his teeth removed and replaced with dentures. Unfortunately my father went along with it. I will never forget him picking me up from school in the car with blood coming out of his mouth.

My mother just couldn't understand why my father allowed him to do this.

That was the breaking point with my family and NHS dentistry.

She just took me and herself to a chap who had just started a private and was a customer in our shop would have been around 1969/70.

I still go to his successor and have had excellent service - generally nothing usually more than a scrape and polish three times a year and an x-ray every two years.

Always easy to get appointments. He did have to close for a while during the initial lockdown in 2020 but was soon back up and running.

Must be around 10 years since he did anything major and that was crowning on a tooth I managed break eating porky scratchings!

Have avoided them since as that turned out to be a very expensive bag of scratchings!

John

Yes, absolutely. I had a similar thing with my mum - she used the NHS dentists for years and had no end of problems, many of which seemed to be caused by previous dental interventions (her current dentist indeed confirmed her current issues were caused by 'bad dentistry').

Luckily at 36 I've yet to have a filling or anything serious. I'll take note of avoiding the scratchings!

Oddly enough, when I went in they were chit chatting about COVID and it had completely escaped my attention that dentists were closed during the first lockdown. It's just another symbol of the COVID madness taking over many other health issues. Considering dentists are among the first to notice indications of developing serious oral disease, that's probably another group of people throughout the country who have been affected by the restrictions and not COVID.

 

[John Luxton]

Oddly enough, when I went in they were chit chatting about COVID and it had completely escaped my attention that dentists were closed during the first lockdown. It's just another symbol of the COVID madness taking over many other health issues. Considering dentists are among the first to notice indications of developing serious oral disease, that's probably another group of people throughout the country who have been affected by the restrictions and not COVID.

My dentist told me when they reopened if they had to use a drill for a filling they had to clean surgery after the patient left then wait for 30 minutes before they could use it again.

Also he couldn't use the ultrasonic scraper due to the water spray.

When I was last there at start of autumn 2021 he still wasn't using the ultrasonic but was using the drill for polishing but still not using the ultrasonic.

My next visit is mid January I wonder what the situation will be then?

John

 

[43066]

Are we all satisfied with the back benchers finally causing the government enough drama that they can’t govern and put in restrictions? I know I am!

Yep! Ironic that it’s being left to the Tories to provide their own opposition.

 

[John Luxton]

Yep! Ironic that it’s being left to the Tories to provide their own opposition.

Perhaps in some ways not a bad thing.

Observing the size of the rebellion may cause others to follow in future votes.

Sometimes reform (small r) comes from with as Reform (big R) will keep putting in the pressure.

Just unfortunate Reform UK didn't have a better showing at North Shropshire.

Be interesting to see if Reform stand against the Conservatives at Southend as Labour and Liberals have stood aside.

 

[kristiang85]

Just unfortunate Reform UK didn't have a better showing at North Shropshire.

I think if people were voting to take the seat from the Tories, they knew voting Reform would take away the best chance of that happening, so I don't think we can read too much into it.

Be interesting to see if Reform stand against the Conservatives at Southend as Labour and Liberals have stood aside.

Not standing would be the right thing to do, to be honest.

 

[david1212]

I ended up with a private dentist as a youngster at the end of the 1960s.

My mother was very unsatisfied with our NHS "butcher".

Always appeared to be filling my teeth.

.......

My dentist told me when they reopened if they had to use a drill for a filling they had to clean surgery after the patient left then wait for 30 minutes before they could use it again.

Also he couldn't use the ultrasonic scraper due to the water spray.

When I was last there at start of autumn 2021 he still wasn't using the ultrasonic but was using the drill for polishing but still not using the ultrasonic.

My next visit is mid January I wonder what the situation will be then?

John

Probably not quite as bad a butcher but while never directly said subsequently I now realise a similar situation with a filling at almost every visit. Had only work that was really needed been done I probably would not have five crowns now and, presuming the tooth root can be deemed worth crowning, need another.

With the same dentist my mother has some teeth removed and partial dentures. Looking back again was more work than necessary done ?

I can't recall exactly when but around age 18 - 20 this dentist retired so I carried on with his successor.

My teeth are crowded and at just over 18 all my wisdom teeth were extracted in hospital.

Moving on this second dentist went private only and at the time virtually impossible to move to a NHS dentist.

During this period what were my back four teeth and another weakened by fillings and posts had cracked to the stage where crowns the only option. Each time the price went up.

This dentist then retired plus I had changed jobs so the practice was 10 miles in the wrong direction. A practice not in my town but a nearby one and convenient was accepting new NHS patients. For several years just checkups.

Then September 2020 part of a filled tooth broke away. I had no problem getting an appointment but all they could do was put in a temporary filling as they could not do any drilling. In March I realised this was wearing away. Again no problem getting an appointment. An x-ray showed the tooth was now dead, although it could have been before as no pain when the break occurred. Hence first a root canal filling. This was done covered with a normal temporary filling with a review booked in 6 months. At the review an x-ray of the root canal still showed infection so a crown could not be done. The next review is in April.

Also at each appointment a quick check-up but I'm unsure if they are doing, or at any point since March 2020 have done, routine check-ups.

The key point here is no issues getting appointments directly with the surgery.

Oddly enough, when I went in they were chit chatting about COVID and it had completely escaped my attention that dentists were closed during the first lockdown. It's just another symbol of the COVID madness taking over many other health issues. Considering dentists are among the first to notice indications of developing serious oral disease, that's probably another group of people throughout the country who have been affected by the restrictions and not COVID.

Exactly my thoughts.

Had I not had a problem would I have been able to see a dentist since the last routine check-up October / November 2019 ?

 

[21C101]

If that is the strategy, then there's a pretty good chance there won't be any more restrictions imposed for after Christmas. However I don't fully trust Johnson, and I'm expecting he will probably announce more restrictions either tonight or tomorrow.

Johnson knows that if he imposes more restrictions, he faces a bigger rebellion than last week, several cabinet ministers walking out and a slew of letters calling for a leadership contest to the 1922 committee.

So unless he feels there is really no choice he won't and in any case he can't without the majority of the cabinet supporting it.

 

[Tomp94]

Johnson may not bring in more restrictions because:
1. He needs to be different to Dripford in Wales and the wee kranky in Scotland
2. He will face an even bigger rebellion by his back benchers. (I suspect the revolt last week was because those who voted against the new diktats are more upset with Johnson's leadership than the diktats, and that should Johnson's premiership be more stable, I suspect the vote last week would not have had to rely on the "opposition" to get it through, and that we'd be days away from more restrictions being imposed here, similar to Wales and Scotland, without backbench opposition)

 

[Bayum]

CEVs who were given access to the third and fourth primaries are being sent PCR tests and priority posting with treatment for any of these within a 24hr period of receiving the positive PCR result. Seems sensible in my eyes.

 

[21C101]

CEVs who were given access to the third and fourth primaries

Could you possibly explain what this actually means?

 

[danm14]

Could you possibly explain what this actually means?

A "third primary" dose is given to people who are immunocompromised because of a belief that they need three doses to derive the benefit two doses gives to the general population.

The third dose is considered part of their original course (just like the two doses other people received), rather than a booster dose. They then receive a booster dose at the usual interval following their third dose.

I don't believe there is such a thing as a "fourth primary" dose - outside of some very specific situations (e.g. Novavax trial participants who opted for revaccination with Pfizer to travel abroad, and then got a booster) nobody in the UK should have received five doses of vaccine.

In any case, eligibility to keep a PCR test at home and receive antivirals by post is much wider than those who received third primary doses.

 

[eastdyke]

CEVs [the Clinically Extremely Vulmnerable] - might be offered treatments, either in a medical setting [sotrovimab] or to take at home [molnupiravir].

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/treatments-for-coronavirus/

Extracts:

The NHS is offering new antibody and antiviral treatments to people with coronavirus (COVID-19) who are at highest risk of becoming seriously ill.

2 types of COVID-19 treatment are available:

• sotrovimab (Xevudy)
• molnupiravir (Lagevrio)

Sotrovimab is a biological medicine. It is also known as a neutralising monoclonal antibody (nMAb).

Molnupiravir is an antiviral medicine.

These treatments can help some people manage their COVID-19 symptoms and reduce the risk of becoming seriously ill.

Which treatment will I get?​

The NHS will advise which treatment, if any, is suitable for you.

Sotrovimab is given to you through a drip in your arm (infusion). You'll usually get it at your local hospital or in a local health centre.

You'll get instructions on where to get the treatment and how to get there and back safely.

If you are given molnupiravir, it normally comes as capsules you swallow and they can be taken at home.

A hospital pharmacy will usually arrange for the medicine to be delivered to you or it can be collected by someone else such as a friend, relative or NHS volunteer responder.

I have yet to check the approval status of these treatments ie full approval, emergency approval or trial. A University of Oxford trial is mentioned in the link in relation to molnupiravir.

 

[brad465]

106,122 reported cases today, prepare for bedlam...

 

[eastdyke]

And just by coincidence the BBC is reporting that France has cancelled its order for Merck & Co's Covid-19 antiviral drug following the publication of disappointing trial data.

The name of the drug? ..... molnupiravir

No mention by the BBC that NHS is going ahead with mass offerings of that same drug

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-59752835?ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbc_live&ns_linkname=61c338ebd299cd67a81131de%26France%20cancels%20Merck%20antiviral%20pill%20order%20after%20disappointing%20trial%262021-12-22T15%3A02%3A13.123Z&ns_fee=0&pinned_post_locator=urn:asset:8b3a2b7b-19cc-4c50-9dca-a29ef2a6b873&pinned_post_asset_id=61c338ebd299cd67a81131de&pinned_post_type=share

France has become the first country to announce publicly that it has cancelled its order for Merck & Co's Covid-19 antiviral drug following the publication of disappointing trial data.
Merck released results from trials at the end of November which suggested the drug was markedly less effective than previously thought, reducing hospitalisations and deaths in its clinical trial of high-risk individuals by just 30%.
French officials had placed an order for 50,000 doses of the drug molnupiravir.
But Health Minister Olivier Veran told local media that the "latest studies weren't good" and added that the cancellation would not incur any cost.
France will instead order an antiviral drug manufactured by the American pharmaceuticals manufacturer Pfizer, which studies suggest cuts the risk of severe illness and death by 90%.
Several other European countries, including Germany and Italy, have also placed orders for Merck's pill and it remains unclear whether they will continue with the purchase.

 

[Aaron1]

106,122 reported cases today, prepare for bedlam...

Lockdown need immediately otherwise we will all die within a week!

 

[greyman42]

106,122 reported cases today, prepare for bedlam...

What about hospitalisations?

 

[Bantamzen]

106,122 reported cases today, prepare for bedlam...

However hospitalisations still plateaued...

 

[Snow1964]

What about hospitalisations?

Hospitalisations up 2.3% on week ago

Deaths down 2.7% on a week ago

 

[brad465]

What about hospitalisations?

However hospitalisations still plateaued...

Nationally they are relatively flat, the problem is in London they are going up, now with 301 daily admissions in the last 24 hours. This matters because some reports suggest this rate is being used as a benchmark for future restrictions, if they exceed 400. This is despite the fact they peaked at nearly 1000 daily admissions in London last winter, and of course not everyone in hospital with covid actually went there with it.