Ongoing ScotRail disruption - Day to day discussion and updates.

[Deltic1961]

Utterly ridiculous situation. Scotland makes a lot of its GDP from tourism but it seems those in charge just don't care one little bit.

If I went to say France or Italy and had booked train tickets in advance that then got cancelled I'd expect the operator to arrange alternative transport or at least get me to the destination same day.

Were rapidly heading towards a 3rd world transport system in Scotland.

 

[numtot12345]

Utterly ridiculous situation. Scotland makes a lot of its GDP from tourism but it seems those in charge just don't care one little bit.

If I went to say France or Italy and had booked train tickets in advance that then got cancelled I'd expect the operator to arrange alternative transport or at least get me to the destination same day.

Were rapidly heading towards a 3rd world transport system in Scotland.

Quite agree. You look at the big events we've had recently but also now major summer events such as TRNSMT where the organisers are actively telling their attendees not to rely on the train and make alternative travel arrangements. In most cases organisers seem to be doing what they can, however on the face of it, can't help but feel ScotRail aren't doing anything in terms of alternative provision (appreciate though given their circumstances, it doesn't seem possible).

The only other alternatives for TRNSMT really are the existing Night Bus network (which I'm not sure would be able to cope with the amount of revellers from TRNSMT on top of existing users), Taxis, or otherwise get a lift from a friend/relative; or Walk - however given the time of night TRNSMT finishes, not everyone would be comfortable with that due to personal safety concerns.

...and now I see now The Open Championship are actively promoting on their social media for attendees not to use ScotRail services to/from Leuchars (and only to use LNER if you have a seat reservation). They are of course having to increase the number of spaces at their P&R sites to accommodate this. Granted I don't know how many would have been travelling by train anyway (a not insignificant amount probably?), it just means more people will drive, or for those that can't either take the bus, or not go altogether. I understand all 'GolfLink' rail tickets are to be refunded which is at least a positive.

Sorry a bit of a rant...

 

[Andy Pacer]

Completely agree. Add in further driver shortages due to covid absences (which seems to be an issue today) and it doesn't make for good prospects during the festival.

I could see people getting left behind in Edinburgh because there simply won't be any room to board after even just one cancellation.

Presumably these "covid absences" must be due to drivers being too ill to come to work given that there is no obligation to isolate now.

 

[Peter0124]

Surely putting on a few special services for TRNSMT concert through Bridgeton at 11pm/midnight from Dalmuir to Motherwell would have been ideal. I wonder how busy the few 11pm services out of Central will be tonight.

 

[Ex-controller]

1-in-15 people in Scotland now have covid, which is a much higher rate than in England. No surprise that it’s impacting on staff sickness. In addition to the existing shortages and drivers declining overtime, it’s a perfect storm.

Scottish Government guidance is still to stay at home for 5 days after a positive PCR test or the start of symptoms, whichever was earlier.

 

[Deltic1961]

I'm seriously wondering when Scotrail just run out of money.

 

[Andy Pacer]

Scottish Government guidance is still to stay at home for 5 days after a positive PCR test or the start of symptoms, whichever was earlier.

3 days according to NHS Inform.

Coronavirus (COVID-19)

Information from NHS Scotland and the Scottish Government about the symptoms of coronavirus, how to look after yourself at home, when to get help and reduce the spread

www.nhsinform.scot

But nontheless, it's only advice.

 

[duffers2324]

for me today was the 2nd time in 3 days that the 1628 Anniesland to Queen St service was cancelled, i had to come back from my cousins earlier thinking that the 1628 was going to run and due to the fact the last 2 trains were also cancelled the 1728 and the 1835 having seen that on the app this morning. I had to tell the folk that were waiting that the last 2 trains were also cancelled also queue the exodus and the walk to get the bus. Having just looked at RTT it appears the last Anniesland to Queen St service today was half 2.

 

[Blindtraveler]

I hope they able to put two and two together when the inevitable head scratching session happens at the end of the year and they are analysing the tourism figures in general and those who have travel around on public transport in particular.

 

[PaulMc7]

As long as there are so many covid cases it's always likely drivers will get it. The public need to get real with that. It's absolutely rampant just now and it's affecting everything

 

[Peter0124]

Is post 9pm considered overtime? Because that would make sense why theres very few late trains, otherwise it's just stupid.

 

[47271]

Don't make me laugh on the alcohol ban. Every Highland Main Line evening train I've been on over the past month has had people drinking on it (perfectly quietly it has to be said, including some people knocking back Glenmorangie out of the bottle, I liked their style) and none of them have been challenged.

There was even a conductor's announcement the other day when we were told that if we were drinking then 'to keep it out of plain sight'. So even the staff are laughing at it.

I would say change it to asking people to only consume alcohol bought onboard if Scotrail could be bothered to provide any catering service whatsoever. I know that there's supposed to be a trolley here and there but I've seen nothing at all since Covid.

Added to this, and far more significantly, I can't catch a train from Kingussie that gets me to either Edinburgh or Glasgow before close to 1030 in the morning and the last Inverness train leaves Edinburgh at 530pm.

Oh, and I drove to Perth the other day to get round the useless timetable and was steamed over £35 for a return to Glasgow at an uncertain departure time just before 9am. There were three other people in the carriage until we got to Stirling, and no wonder.

And we've got the constant short forms of 170s and 158s in place of HSTs, although that is getting a bit better now I think.

If they acknowledged the all round dismal service by doing something about the fares across the board (not just off peak advance gimmicks) then I could just about accept that they're in a tricky situation.

With the possible exception of Transpennine right now, which I think does surpass Scotrail on the uselessness front, what we have in Scotland at the moment in terms of balance of reliability, comfort, convenience and cost is the worst train service I've experienced anywhere in the UK in 30 years.

National strikes aside, all of the other operators (and I'm on LNER, Avanti, Northern, GWR and SWR a lot) are providing me with a service that's very closely comparable to pre Covid levels.

 

[takno]

As long as there are so many covid cases it's always likely drivers will get it. The public need to get real with that. It's absolutely rampant just now and it's affecting everything

And yet strangely the buses and most shops and pubs round here are running essentially fine. Are we to conclude that train drivers are uniquely susceptible for some reason?

 

[PaulMc7]

And yet strangely the buses and most shops and pubs round here are running essentially fine. Are we to conclude that train drivers are uniquely susceptible for some reason?

Buses are nowhere near fine in Scotland in almost every area. If anything some companies are more hit than the trains actually are. It only takes one outbreak to cause a lot of distruption too remember. There's also the small factor of training being heavily delayed due to the initial lockdown. Train driving is wildly different to a lot of industries in that sense too.

Shops, restaurants etc can scrape by with staff off using overtime but it's nowhere near that simple for trains especially just now with the constant potential of strikes etc.

 

[hexagon789]

And yet strangely the buses and most shops and pubs round here are running essentially fine. Are we to conclude that train drivers are uniquely susceptible for some reason?

I don't know where you live Takno, but here in Glasgow the buses are most definitely not running fine. Even with many formerly 10-min frequency routes down to every 12-mins, buses not appearing is still a near weekly occurrence for me.

(That applies to two routes I use regularly - the First Glasgow 57/57A and 3.)

Also on routes I use less frequently, such as the 38 (and all its letters), particularly annoying going to Newton Mearns as only two of the various 38 per hour go there now instead of three, means a 30-min wait when one is cancelled.

I would actually argue my local train service is more reliable than the bus! I cannot remember the last time one was cancelled or delayed by more than 2 mins.

 

[Andy Pacer]

And yet strangely the buses and most shops and pubs round here are running essentially fine. Are we to conclude that train drivers are uniquely susceptible for some reason?

Do they get full sick pay?
If bus drivers don't then its likely they will continue to work, assuming they're not too ill.

 

[kkong]

With the possible exception of Transpennine right now, which I think does surpass Scotrail on the uselessness front, what we have in Scotland at the moment in terms of balance of reliability, comfort, convenience and cost is the worst train service I've experienced anywhere in the UK in 30 years.

Alex Hynes (August 2020):

We’ve learned a lot of lessons from the past few years, so we are now delivering projects on time and on budget as we continue to build the best railway Scotland’s ever had.

 

[47271]

Alex Hynes (August 2020):

We’ve learned a lot of lessons from the past few years, so we are now delivering projects on time and on budget as we continue to build the best railway Scotland’s ever had.

He wasn't wrong in a sense, August 2020 still had a full timetable and superb timekeeping and reliability with no pesky passengers getting in the way. It's only now, when people are trying to travel again, that we've wound up with the worst railway Scotland's ever had.

Does anyone know if the nationalised Scotrail is subject to any sort of performance regime like the old SQUIRE that First and Abellio got fined under? I'm sure that they'll be hiding behind post Covid get out clauses at the moment, but will Scotrail ever feel any real commercial pressure again based on its day to day performancw? I fear that the priorities will all be political from now on.

 

[ld0595]

Results of the ASLEF ballot will be announced tomorrow. Assuming it's accepted by members, how long could we expect for a normal timetable to be reinstated?

Not expecting it to be reinstated overnight but presume the planners must have something ready to go if it's accepted?

 

[Peter0124]

Results of the ASLEF ballot will be announced tomorrow. Assuming it's accepted by members, how long could we expect for a normal timetable to be reinstated?

Not expecting it to be reinstated overnight but presume the planners must have something ready to go if it's accepted?

Id assume atleast after 17th July seeing as that appears to be normal at the moment on RTT.

 

[Mak1981]

How quick will they revert to the original timetable now that the deal has been accepted?

 

[Deltic1961]

According to online sources the pay deal has been accepted. Still many months of reduced timetables ahead I would guess.

What a mess.

 

[Blindtraveler]

I would have said weeks rather than months for the timetable to get back to normal, but then I am just a passenger and not in charge of anything

 

[diamond chap]

According to online sources the pay deal has been accepted. Still many months of reduced timetables ahead I would guess.

What a mess.

An article on the BBC says "ScotRail said if drivers begin doing overtime again a full timetable could return within 10 days" so it'll be interesting to see how accurate your guess turns out to be.

 

[Ex-controller]

According to online sources the pay deal has been accepted. Still many months of reduced timetables ahead I would guess.

What a mess.

Not sure what makes you conclude that? If drivers are willing to work overtime again then the full timetable (the May 2022 version) should be restored.

But yes, likely still to be about another year before anything resembling pre-covid timetables are re-introduced.

 

[duffers2324]

As was stated at the time, but seems to have been glossed over in other threads, the temporary timetable is in until May 2023.

Some evening and additional services may be added but don't expect the planned May 2022 timetable anytime soon.

So has the ASLEF dispute been used as an excuse to cut services with no intent of returning them upon resolution?

I was under the impression this was the main factor in contributing to the timetable cutback

What I was informed was that even with a deal agreed, the resources to run the full timetable aren't simply returning overnight and it was effectively decided the continue to reduced timetable to provide consistency until the full timetable could be reliably provided.

Hence the May 2023 date, concurrent with the summer timetable change.

This was posted in this thread:

For how much longer is the Scotrail amended timetable likely to be in place ?​

Posted by Hexagon789

So i would like to clarify if this is the position or not or will the "normal" timetable be reinstated as soon as possible? IE May 2022 timetable? not a pre-covid timetable just for clarification.

 

[XAM2175]

So i would like to clarify if this is the position or not or will the "normal" timetable be reinstated as soon as possible? IE May 2022 timetable? not a pre-covid timetable just for clarification.

This is the BBC article:

ScotRail train drivers accept new pay deal to end disruption

Trains have been on a reduced timetable while drivers refused to work overtime during a pay dispute.

www.bbc.co.uk

ScotRail train drivers have voted to accept a 5% pay increase, their union Aslef has announced.
Trains across Scotland have been on a reduced timetable for almost two months during a pay dispute.
ScotRail said if drivers begin doing overtime again a full timetable could return within 10 days.
Around 700 services were cut on 23 May when the dispute began and an emergency timetable was introduced.
Aslef Scottish organiser Kevin Lindsay said: "Following a ballot on the improved offer negotiated with ScotRail, Aslef members have voted to accept the proposals on pay and conditions."
David Simpson, ScotRail service delivery director, said: "All parties involved have worked hard to find an agreement that recognises the hard work of staff and the financial challenges faced by the railway as we look to recover from the pandemic.
"ScotRail, our staff, and our customers want to have a reliable, efficient, and sustainable railway that supports the economy and connects communities across the country. This deal is a significant step towards delivering that."
ScotRail drivers will see their pay climb by 5% and also get more money for rest day and Sunday working, driving instructor and maternity pay along with a policy of no compulsory redundancies for the next five years.
The nationalised train operator said 2.2% of the increase would be funded by Transport Scotland with the remaining 2.8% coming from ScotRail's funds.
ScotRail came back into public ownership for the first time in 25 years in April, after previous operator Abellio had its franchise ended early over criticism of the quality of the service.
The emergency timetable in place since May has had a major impact on evening services and caused travel disruption for a number of events.
Fans at Scotland's World Cup play-off against Ukraine at Hampden Park in June had to leave early if they wanted to take the last service home.
Audiences at TRNSMT music festival in Glasgow on Sunday were told they would miss last trains home if they stayed to watch headliner Lewis Capaldi.
Despite the dispute being resolved, the temporary timetable is expected to in place for up to 10 days while service levels return to normal.
Visitors to The Open in St Andrews have also been urged to avoid rail travel this week.
Johnnie Cole-Hamilton, director of championships at The R&A, said there was "a risk that fans who travel by train may find there are no services to get them home".

(emphasis mine)

 

[aoa123]

In the meantime, the latest info on the journey check site on the West Highland Line for tomorrow:

JourneyCheck -ScotRail - All Stations to All Stations - Live Train Disruption/Cancellations/Delays and Real Time Departure/Arrival Boards

View our range of fares and choose what suits you best.

www.journeycheck.com

Tomorrow's 06.03 from Mallaig cancelled, so this means the only service leaving for the whole day will be the 18:15 to FW and no service at all to Glasgow!
If you are coming into Mallaig the Crianlarich portion of the 13:38 arrival will be cancelled, meaning one single arrival at 17.43 from Glasgow. So for the whole of the day in the middle of July tourist season one single train arrives and one single train leaves.. ouch.

I am going to be in Mallaig and the local area next week and will be having a mosey around asking local businesses how they feel about the current train timetable and how it has affected their business.

So cautious am I about the current situation (I am due to travel from London to FW by Caledonian Sleeper next week returning a week later) I have double booked the whole journey by coach / bus connections so even if any strikes / cancellations were to take place I still have a method of transport and would still be able to reach Mallaig from London albeit by coach and bus.

 

[GLC]

On Sunday there I caught the 1601 Mallaig to Glasgow Queen Street (well Crianlarich in reality…). It was a four coach 156 but half the set failed at Fort William, so it’s possible some of the disruption might well be related to that failed unit (and no drivers being available to get a replacement unit up from Glasgow)

 

[Ex-controller]

As was stated at the time, but seems to have been glossed over in other threads, the temporary timetable is in until May 2023.

Some evening and additional services may be added but don't expect the planned May 2022 timetable anytime soon.


What I was informed was that even with a deal agreed, the resources to run the full timetable aren't simply returning overnight and it was effectively decided the continue to reduced timetable to provide consistency until the full timetable could be reliably provided.

Hence the May 2023 date, concurrent with the summer timetable change.

This was posted in this thread:

For how much longer is the Scotrail amended timetable likely to be in place ?​

Posted by Hexagon789

So i would like to clarify if this is the position or not or will the "normal" timetable be reinstated as soon as possible? IE May 2022 timetable? not a pre-covid timetable just for clarification.

This is the same misunderstanding as above. The temporary timetable in place until May 2023 is the May 2022 timetable, itself a reduction from pre-covid times.

The current early finish emergency timetable was introduced, a reduction from the May 2022 timetable, because drivers are no longer doing overtime. Now that the pay deal has been agreed, we should see the May 2022 timetable reintroduced in the coming weeks. There has been no decision to continue with the emergency timetable for a full year. That would be politically unsustainable if nothing else.