theironroad
Established Member
Has the ability to book PRV tickets online for the cal sleeper stopped. I can see plenty of available berths without prv, but none on various routes/dates when trying to get a prv?
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online PRV on Cal Sleeper
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I've just tried a couple of PRV dummy bookings and the following message is returned:
That suggest a systems problem - I'd give them a ring.
theironroad
Established Member
Yeah, that's what I get but then previously I'd get the same message for full fare and I think that's when the train is full.
I have tweeted them, but no reply yet.
gray1404
Established Member
Best picking up the phone and giving them a call so they will deal with your question/booking there and then.
theironroad
Established Member
I've tried twice, but been on hold ages both times so given up. Trawling their twitter feed has given me a possible answer, and it's not a good one....
I've seen this ("recent") statement made on their Twitter Account:
https://mobile.twitter.com/CalSleeper/status/1076405819422461953
So it looks like they have withdrawn the online PRIV booking facility.
221129
Established Member
The online booking for PRIV holders has been scrapped due to misuse.
That is what I feared, although on the last two occasions I've used priv on the sleeper, they have never asked to see the required supporting documentation. It is a bit of a pain in the backside having to queue up at a booking office but hey ho.
swt class 450
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It was scrapped because people were misusing it. Many people who were not railway staff found out about this loophole where you could enter the code "PRV" and also select a railcard (as long as you had a railcard of course) and it would charge you PRIV fares but your ticket would not show the PRIV discount (it only showed the railcard discount). So because of this many ordinary members of the public were travelling on cheap PRIV fares when they shouldn't have been.
theironroad
Established Member
Correct. I've just managed to get through to them and priv tickets can now only be bought in person from a ticket office. Not online. Not on the phone.
It seems the facility was open to abuse.
However, I'm not sure why this couldn't be dealt with at the train as all tickets are checked before boarding . Refusal to travel without the correct documents is commonplace.
The RDG and RSTL need to sort out buying Priv tickets in these days of digital ticketing and more TVMs than ticket offices....
Especially the for the sleeper, booking online was an excellent facility to allow choosing berth etc and all could be done in a couple of minutes. Some ticket office staff are better than others when doing sleeper tickets as they don't get the requests day to day. A real step backwards......
Oh, and ironically the only stations you can't get them from are those run by Virgin which just happens to run the main Euston ticket office. Due to software incompatibly apparently.
theironroad
Established Member
Hadn't noticed that before, but just looked at a previous e-ticket and no indication that a priv or staff travel card used.
Surely this data could be incorporated in the QR code that is generated for the ticket which could easily be scanned at the welocme desk on the platform.
I've booked Dover - Calais with P&O a few times and it's possible to enter the relevant discount code without needing to enter your Staff Travel Card/TOC Privilege Card number. Never been asked to present the card at check-in either, though I've always had it on me.
It was a three letter discount code that was readily available to anyone with even very limited knowledge of the railway industry, and, in general, no further check. It provided a 75% discount.
It would be very very difficult to believe nobody would misuse that...
It would be a bit like if the self-checkout at Tesco gave you a 75% discount on your shopping if you typed 'OFF' into its payment screen.
causton
Established Member
And then the Government posted a how-to guide online, just in case...
(Don't forget, there were instructions and screenshots on the Rail Staff Travel page, which is available to the public)
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Which of course should now be taken down as they are no longer relevant!
I clicked the link and it took me to an archived page dated march 2017 on web.archive.org , so I hope that would have alerted me to the fact that it has been withdrawn. However accessing the current info is a bit worrying: the RDG welcome page is dated 16 june 2017 and says
Maybe it's because the archiving machine keeps interfering, (it is) but I still can't find anything about retired staff concessions or the Sleepers there.
Surreytraveller
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I used it once, and even showed by PRIV card to the staff on board the train when they were showing me to my berth, but they weren't interested in looking at it. I know that to other staff we're all one big happy family, and one glimpse of a Staff Travel Card normally sends ticket inspectors on their way, but being able to book PRIV discounted tickets online was a massive inconvenience-saver. Particularly with Sleepers, where a lot of booking offices don't do them very often, and even for those that do it is time consuming and holds people up in the queue behind. There must be a cleverer way of doing it - perhaps each holder having a secure log-on to book tickets? But even then I suspect some staff would end up buying tickets for those not entitled.
A Challenge
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Couldn't they do that anyway, by showing their staff travel card to book the ticket at a ticket office and then giving another person the ticket?
Surreytraveller
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Yes, but that requires more effort, and would be less likely to happen. It would appear that the trick online would give you a PRIV discounted ticket, without actually stating on the ticket it was a PRIV. Therefore people were able to obtain a perfectly valid ticket at PRIV rate.
theironroad
Established Member
As it's possible to have an online account with cal sleeper, I suggested to them yesterday that one work around could be that sea have to provide a copy of the staff travel card annually and that would be linked to the account.
Only the person named on the card could be on the reservation or if booking for is for another eligible staff or dependent, the account holder could tick a box to affirm a declaration that they are responsible. Abuse would be treated as travel irregularities.
Tbf to serco, no other toc I'm aware of allows Priv to be booked online and this is going to put them off.
The RDG and RSTL need to sort this industry wide to allow digital staff ticketing. If I can buy an airline ticket and boarding pass through app linked to frequent flyer account and can use fingerprint access to pay bills etc through my bank, then with a bit of effort RSTL and rdg can sort this.....if they want to.....
Only the person named on the card could be on the reservation or if booking for is for another eligible staff or dependent, the account holder could tick a box to affirm a declaration that they are responsible. Abuse would be treated as travel irregularities.
Tbf to serco, no other toc I'm aware of allows Priv to be booked online and this is going to put them off.
The RDG and RSTL need to sort this industry wide to allow digital staff ticketing. If I can buy an airline ticket and boarding pass through app linked to frequent flyer account and can use fingerprint access to pay bills etc through my bank, then with a bit of effort RSTL and rdg can sort this.....if they want to.....
RJ
Established Member
I work in a ticket office and can confirm Sleeper tickets, Priv rate and all are easy to issue from the office computer. As they should be from every single station in the UK that can issue reservations as shown in Schedule 17.
It is not especially time consuming at all! The duration of transactions often isn't down to the ticket being sold, but the skill of the clerk in extracting the crucial information from the customer to establish what is needed. Obtaining and inputting the details required to issue the ticket shouldn't take longer than 45 seconds. I haven't sold a sleeper ticket this decade despite having worked at a station with a sleeper service, but that doesn't mean it'd take me any longer to do it. It's the same process as issuing an Advance, which anybody required to issue reservations should be proficient with.
The railways should be aware by now that if you give people an inch, some will take a mile - a proportion of the population have a cavalier attitude towards fraud/theft where the railways are concerned - if dodgy stacked discounts are available for sale, people will abuse it, simple as. Perhaps when CS are software testing, they need people who understand how to game the system to help them iron out such problems.
It's a pity it had to come to this, but it wasn't the only example of the CS site allowing the Priv discount to be used for something it shouldn't - I stumbled across another one a few months ago that arose in relation to the "no sharing with strangers" policy that was reversed - but the 'bug' remained open for some time after.
It is not especially time consuming at all! The duration of transactions often isn't down to the ticket being sold, but the skill of the clerk in extracting the crucial information from the customer to establish what is needed. Obtaining and inputting the details required to issue the ticket shouldn't take longer than 45 seconds. I haven't sold a sleeper ticket this decade despite having worked at a station with a sleeper service, but that doesn't mean it'd take me any longer to do it. It's the same process as issuing an Advance, which anybody required to issue reservations should be proficient with.
The railways should be aware by now that if you give people an inch, some will take a mile - a proportion of the population have a cavalier attitude towards fraud/theft where the railways are concerned - if dodgy stacked discounts are available for sale, people will abuse it, simple as. Perhaps when CS are software testing, they need people who understand how to game the system to help them iron out such problems.
It's a pity it had to come to this, but it wasn't the only example of the CS site allowing the Priv discount to be used for something it shouldn't - I stumbled across another one a few months ago that arose in relation to the "no sharing with strangers" policy that was reversed - but the 'bug' remained open for some time after.
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RJ
Established Member
That all sounds very advanced. There are more fundamental IT issues that really need to be conquered before anything too ambitious is attempted!
That said, I hope this doesn't put other TOCs off offering Priv discounts. Eurostar have recently allowed corporate discount rates to be booked online, perhaps discussions can be held with them as to how they're mitigating the risk of the facility being abused.
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tiptoptaff
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The only time I have used the Cal Sleeper, I was asked prior to boarding to show my PRIV card as it showed on my booking. That was before they introduced the online booking. I always suspected when I heard about it that it would be abused very quickly. Especially so as it appears that there was a loophole that prevented the PRIV requirement showing up.
I found it no great inconvenience to visit a ticket office to book it. The longest part of the booking was the clerk taking all the details that CS required on their booking form, rather than doing the booking and reservation itself.
I found it no great inconvenience to visit a ticket office to book it. The longest part of the booking was the clerk taking all the details that CS required on their booking form, rather than doing the booking and reservation itself.
theironroad
Established Member
The reason it doesn't show up on the ticket is that the prv discount was being applied in the 'promo' box as the Railcard is not listed in the drop down Railcard menu. Hence why it didn't show up as it was just applying the discount amount.
On the day I started this, I was trying to book for that night and what would have taken me 2 mins online took 25 mins at station and caused a queue as well. Not ideal for anyone.
Unfortunately even some larger busy stations have staff who don't book sleeper tickets regularly and while may have been trained in doing it, they just don't get the practice to make it like any other transaction.
Wallsendmag
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Sleepers used to be a lot harder to book than they are now and people who don't book many have long memories.
philthetube
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It would be nice to be able to check online if priv berths were available before visiting the ticket office.
I tried to book a PRIV sleeper at London Euston today and was advised that they no longer sold tickets for the Caledonian Sleeper (neither PRIV or normal fare tickets), something I believe to be due to their new ticketing system (Samsung touch screen portable tablet).
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