Opinion: Do more people pass Train Driver Psychometrics these days?

[387star]

Getting a Trainee Train Driver job especially externally is still extremely difficult due to the competition and limited jobs .

However it seems most people in recent years who apply internally at least pass the psychometrics and the talent pools often run into hundreds with people from many different backgrounds.

It seems more rare now to hear of someone fail them ! Gone is the old mechanical test and reaction test. There is plenty of help on forums like this one which I'm sure put many at an unfair advantage.

This is conjecture of course but it doesn't seem especially hard to make the cut anymore. This might be why more trainees are failing the actual training or having incidents post qualified?

 

[Horizon22]

I would simply say we don't hear much from those that don't pass. Selective bias on these forums!

 

[Nuttygooner]

I would simply say we don't hear much from those that don't pass. Selective bias on these forums!

Aye, you're not going to hear from unsuccessful candidates often, it's not exactly something one advertises from the rooftops.

 

[csa99s]

OPC are in the same hotel as me doing assessments. 5 yesterday, 2 made it MMI, about the same again so I don’t think it’s got any easier.
I got a lot of help and advice from this forum but ultimately you still need to be able to have innate skills, such as hand eye coordination and the concentration required. No amount of forum support is going to help you with those.

 

[Terry844]

And don’t forget the hundreds that are not on the forums that we never hear from

 

[1867Blue]

An internal candidate failed when I did mine last year

 

[ComUtoR]

I was at our Assessment Centre a few weeks ago and I was speaking to a Candidate there. He was the last man standing at the lunchtime interval, everyone else had failed at some point during the morning. I think he said he was last out of 6. Not sure if he made it as I never saw him when I left.

 

[LCC106]

The internals still have to pass the tests on their own merits and believe you me, there are plenty who fail the assessments. Some don’t even pass the Driver Manager interviews. Reputations and sickness can contribute to that! There are plenty of people on the forums who don’t pass, and bearing in mind there are literally thousands of applicants per job - I tend to disagree with the op no disrespect.

 

[baz962]

I was told by both the opc and a driver manager at my interview that around 40-50% pass to standard. Then when the opc were at our head office during the early stages of my training , they told my group that around 20% pass to enhanced.

 

[REO Nate]

When I did my psychometrics we started off with 12 and ended the day with 4.

 

[Nuttygooner]

When I did my psychometrics the first time round, out of 12, there was 3 of us left.

When mine timed out and I did them again, out of 6, I was the only one remaining.

How many of them are on this forum? Who knows?

 

[Horizon22]

When I did my psychometrics the first time round, out of 12, there was 3 of us left.

When mine timed out and I did them again, out of 6, I was the only one remaining.

How many of them are on this forum? Who knows?

Very true - not that many broadcast their failures and may already be in other jobs and still contribute to the forum. Or they might say that they've been accepted to the psychometric phase and then never reply again.

People can share as much - or as little - as they wish and therefore we are missing a number of stories. I know though that not every succeeds. I've done pyschometrics (for non-driver roles) in the past and people have left after just one or two exercises.

 

[on-the-tracks]

A lot will fathom down to the TOC recruitment process too. By means of pre tests such as error judgements, SJE, etc. It will help narrow it down earlier for them too making them recruitment more streamlined and cost efficient

 

[MintyMango]

When I did my assessments there was 8 of us at the beginning and the day ended with only two of us reaching the MMI. So if that's anything to go by I'd imagine not

 

[387star]

Some internals seem to think the job is automatically theres which surprises me. Well it's interesting to read these replies
The Old reaction test involved responding to pedals lights and tones at the same time whilst the mechanical test though probably not relevant anymore involved maths/physics

 

[L401CJF]

When I sat my OPC Computer Tests in Watford with DRS a few years ago all 6 of us passed. The assessor said the first time that's happened in a long long time.

 

[craigybagel]

Things have changed now at my TOC but it used to be that the psychometrics and MMI were the final step - to get that far you had to survive the sift, a phone interview and a Driver Manager interview. Instead of being used as a sifting tool like other TOCs, it was only people the company actively wanted to recruit and who'd shown aptitude in the previous stages who sat the psychometrics.

As a result the pass rate was a lot higher than what I've seen mentioned at other TOCs. Of the many colleagues I know who have made it that far and sat the tests, only 1 has failed. The numbers might not be as high for the external candidates, but it still seems higher than at other TOCs.

 

[387star]

I guess the enhanced level requirements fot certain TOCS make things more challenging where you can technically pass but it's not good enough. Thameslink have a higher pass requirement than GWR for example. I guess with GBR things might become more standardised. Some TOCS require additional tests as well and some Driver Manager interviews are definitely more challenging than others.

 

[craigybagel]

If you're worried about the standards of drivers coming through the system now, what about the old hand ex BR drivers who never had to sit psychometrics at all - are they a liability?

Or how about myself - I sat the tests 3 years ago at a TOC that as far as I can tell only requires a standard Pass. Am I dangerous? Am I a lesser driver some how?

 

[Stigy]

If you're worried about the standards of drivers coming through the system now, what about the old hand ex BR drivers who never had to sit psychometrics at all - are they a liability?

Or how about myself - I sat the tests 3 years ago at a TOC that as far as I can tell only requires a standard Pass. Am I dangerous? Am I a lesser driver some how?

I think since former BR drivers have demonstrated their aptitude for driving over the years, it serves (possibly) to indicate they can do the job. However, I wonder what the ratio of safety of the line incidents is between drivers who didn’t sit any kind of psychometric assessments and those who sat said assessments (be it to the national standard or enhanced).

Getting a Trainee Train Driver job especially externally is still extremely difficult due to the competition and limited jobs .

However it seems most people in recent years who apply internally at least pass the psychometrics and the talent pools often run into hundreds with people from many different backgrounds.

It seems more rare now to hear of someone fail them ! Gone is the old mechanical test and reaction test. There is plenty of help on forums like this one which I'm sure put many at an unfair advantage.

This is conjecture of course but it doesn't seem especially hard to make the cut anymore. This might be why more trainees are failing the actual training or having incidents post qualified?

It does seem that more people are getting driver jobs to someone viewing things from the within the driving grade I think, but try telling that to the thousands of candidates sat in talent pools for a seemingly indefinite amount of time.

I strongly believe that if you’re applying internally, you do have a greater chance generally than an external candidate, be that because of a rapport you already have with local depot management, or from the skills you’ve picked up from within the industry so far.

 

[craigybagel]

I think since former BR drivers have demonstrated their aptitude for driving over the years, it serves (possibly) to indicate they can do the job. However, I wonder what the ratio of safety of the line incidents is between drivers who didn’t sit any kind of psychometric assessments and those who sat said assessments (be it to the national standard or enhanced).

Now that is a very interesting question. It would be interesting to see how experience compares to the higher standards that in theory the testing should provide.

I should add I have nothing but admiration for my ex BR colleagues. My instructor was also our most senior driver and I'll forward be indebted to him for all the things he taught me - but by his own admission he wouldn't get through the current recruitment process. He was still an excellent driver with a great safety record however.

I'm just a little worried at some of the remarks being made by the OP here.

I strongly believe that if you’re applying internally, you do have a greater chance generally than an external candidate, be that because of a rapport you already have with local depot management, or from the skills you’ve picked up from within the industry so far.

I think that by and large internal candidates are often seen as a safer option. When it comes to recruitment, all the recruiters have to go on with external candidates is what they they tell themselves. For internals, they'll already have all their records on hand.

Also, the railway is a difficult industry that doesn't suit everybody. It's something of a way of life that takes some getting used to - and many have come into it from outside and failed to make that adjustment. For internal staff, going driving doesn't usually involve much of a change of routine - it's often similar shifts working out of a similar location.

I'm not saying externals can't make that adjustment - of course they can! There are plenty of excellent drivers out there who came straight into the role from outside of the railway. But internals are less of a gamble in that respect.

 

[baz962]

I think since former BR drivers have demonstrated their aptitude for driving over the years, it serves (possibly) to indicate they can do the job. However, I wonder what the ratio of safety of the line incidents is between drivers who didn’t sit any kind of psychometric assessments and those who sat said assessments (be it to the national standard or enhanced).


It does seem that more people are getting driver jobs to someone viewing things from the within the driving grade I think, but try telling that to the thousands of candidates sat in talent pools for a seemingly indefinite amount of time.

I strongly believe that if you’re applying internally, you do have a greater chance generally than an external candidate, be that because of a rapport you already have with local depot management, or from the skills you’ve picked up from within the industry so far.

Surely the old hands talk about the old days and some people owing the Bobby a beer , you know before downloads.

 

[skyhigh]

Things have changed now at my TOC but it used to be that the psychometrics and MMI were the final step - to get that far you had to survive the sift, a phone interview and a Driver Manager interview. Instead of being used as a sifting tool like other TOCs, it was only people the company actively wanted to recruit and who'd shown aptitude in the previous stages who sat the psychometrics.

As a result the pass rate was a lot higher than what I've seen mentioned at other TOCs. Of the many colleagues I know who have made it that far and sat the tests, only 1 has failed. The numbers might not be as high for the external candidates, but it still seems higher than at other TOCs.

This is an interesting point - I was talking to someone who works in HR at a TOC where the psychometrics are the first step after the online tests and paper sift and of the recent candidates they've had a 10% pass rate at the required standard. At my TOC the psychometrics are the last step (ignoring the medical) before employment and they seem to have a higher pass rate.

Having said that I don't think the tests are easier or more people are passing now - I can think of plenty of internal candidates who have failed over the last couple of years. When I did my psychometrics a while back I was the only one out of 6 there at the beginning of the day to pass everything.

 

[LCC106]

There’s many an old hand who tells of having a SPAD (Signal Passed at Danger) and reporting to the signaller, who used to say “No you haven’t, on you go.” Data recorders and recorded conversations exist now for the safety of all, but incidents from longer ago may never have been reported. After all, we’re all human.

 

[Shunted]

F

 

[LCC106]

Going back to the idea of the forums making it easier, I do agree it can help people pass interviews with an unfair advantage. On the one hand, anyone who has to ask what they need to know for the interview generally should really have had the common sense to research the company off their own back. On the other, far too many people ask what specific questions there will be in the MMI and it really frustrates me that people share them. It’s part of an aptitude assessment to see how YOUR NATURAL REACTION would be thinking about the questions as they arise, not a well rehearsed response. Maybe that’s why not everyone cuts it at the end of their course.

 

[16.19]

I took the psychometrics in 2016 with 11 others in Doncaster.

2 passed. 1 being myself

 

[baz962]

Going back to the idea of the forums making it easier, I do agree it can help people pass interviews with an unfair advantage. On the one hand, anyone who has to ask what they need to know for the interview generally should really have had the common sense to research the company off their own back. On the other, far too many people ask what specific questions there will be in the MMI and it really frustrates me that people share them. It’s part of an aptitude assessment to see how YOUR NATURAL REACTION would be thinking about the questions as they arise, not a well rehearsed response. Maybe that’s why not everyone cuts it at the end of their course.

I don't think necessarily that is right about the mmi. You still have to have your own examples of what you did , it's having answers that helps and not knowing the questions. Also there are more than six and you could get asked different questions. As for a natural reaction , they themselves give you the questions before you do the computer tests and you write them down. So you know them several hours before you do the mmi anyway. Separately though , I do agree that some people want spoon feeding. I personally feel that you could get wrong advice anyway. I heard a few times from people saying that when you do the grey flashing square test that you can tap the key as you hear the others tap it. Good luck if the others are doing it wrong.

 

[Shunted]

I don't think necessarily that is right about the mmi. You still have to have your own examples of what you did , it's having answers that helps and not knowing the questions. Also there are more than six and you could get asked different questions. As for a natural reaction , they themselves give you the questions before you do the computer tests and you write them down. So you know them several hours before you do the mmi anyway. Separately though , I do agree that some people want spoon feeding. I personally feel that you could get wrong advice anyway. I heard a few times from people saying that when you do the grey flashing square test that you can tap the key as you hear the others tap it. Good luck if the others are doing it wrong.

If you need to hear other people tap their button when the square turns black to give you a clue, then I think you would definitely not be what they’re looking for!

 

[baz962]

If you need to hear other people tap their button when the square turns black to give you a clue, then I think you would definitely not be what they’re looking for!

Exactly. Like I said , good luck if the others are getting it wrong. It was a boring test , but in my opinion the easiest by far.