Overstretched UK border control cause delays at Gare du Nord

[infobleep]

Our politicians certainly weren't going to agree to that -- it might have made us feel more European, which would never do!

I sympathise greatly with the OP -- the facilities at the Gare du Nord were provided in the expectation that there would be on-train controls for as long as those were needed and that no more would really be needed at the EST platforms than at, say, the Thalys platforms. Only, as we all know, the British weren't having any of that.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Totally agree -- GdN is vile. Brussels South is a decent station in a lousy area, but at least there's the Ibis straight across the road.

GdN dies at least have the St Christopher's Hostel opposite, meaning one can get a cheap night's stay in Paris whilst being close to the Eurostar.

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I wasn't suggesting abandoning the idea of a single queue completely. What I was suggesting is dividing the front of the single queue into short queues of 1 or 2 people at each counter simply to reduce the idle time as each server waits for the next passenger to walk across.

Sometimes of course you will get unlucky and get stuck behind somebody with a dodgy visa. But the delay should not be excessive. And surely this is better than having to stand up for an hour or so waiting in lines at Gare du Nord because there are too few officers on duty to cope with the numbers? Such a system is used for outbound security checks at Manchester Airport but not for inbound passport checks.

My poor wife with her arthritic knee is threatening never to travel with Eurostar again.

Hiw about a queue of those with Visa's and those without. Isn't there something like that at Gatwick Airport or has it all changed in recent times.

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

In a previous job I was told that a single long queue can turn customers away, seeing one queue of 12 or so people waiting... so we split them up into one queue per cashier, so 4 queues of 4 people. As people see a queue of 3 or 4 people and not 12 people, they are less likely to turn around and walk away.(Also, if someone is slower at getting through the queue, the customer does not blame the staff member, but blames themselves, as they chose that particular queue to get in. This is the mentality of the place I worked :roll: ) - It is the same in McDonalds, they always try and spread people out so they queue one per cashier.

It seems most banks, railway stations don't agree but supermarkets do, so long as it's not the basket til or self service tills. Of course supermarkets hace many more trolly tills so single queue would be unworkable.

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

 

[Bletchleyite]

Indeed, and where it is workable (basket tills and self-service tills) there often *is* a single queue.

 

[infobleep]

The lounge at Gare du Nord is so small that there's no point having lots of people on security at the moment to pass people through - it would just make the lounge ridiculously crowded instead! As my then pregnant wife found out earlier in the year, so crowded that not even grown adult men would offer her a seat (yes, we did ask nicely - an older lady eventually offered instead)

Better to use security as the bottleneck and tell some people to come back later. It can get so crowded that even accessing the shops becomes difficuly - which loses revenue.

Perhaps there needs to be active publicity campaign, via posters, announcements and social media, to enorucgae people to only turn up x minutes before their departure and no earlier.

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I've never been very impressed with UK Immigration and Border Control staff. They seem to think that abruptness if not downright rudeness is an essential requirement for the role. Perhaps they think it helps to deter criminals and terrorists? Clearly, it doesn't, it just irritates many travellers unnecessarily.

How do we know it doesn't deter them?

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

 

[Elwyn]

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

How do we know it doesn't deter them?

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

The extent to which Border control staff deter criminals and others must inevitably be debatable. However there are other ways of measuring the effectiveness of the controls. The Government publishes stats on the numbers refused entry to the UK etc.

According to the attached link, some 18,373 people were refused entry to the UK in the 12 months to March 2015. That’s an average of 50 a day. So, grumpy or not, they must be doing some detecting of forged passports, criminals and others who are inadmissible to this country.


https://www.gov.uk/government/publi.../immigration-statistics-january-to-march-2015

 

[fowler9]

Have I miss understood someone here. In Paris do you go through both French and British checks? I don't remember that at Brussels Midi or any airport in world! Apologies if I read it wrong.

 

[infobleep]

Have I miss understood someone here. In Paris do you go through both French and British checks? I don't remember that at Brussels Midi or any airport in world! Apologies if I read it wrong.

I think the British boarder control is in Paris rather than London. Can't remember what is the case the other way round.

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

 

[Elwyn]

Have I miss understood someone here. In Paris do you go through both French and British checks? I don't remember that at Brussels Midi or any airport in world! Apologies if I read it wrong.

The UK Border control is normally in Paris. Likewise in Brussels though in the past on train clearance has operated too, with UK Border Force staff passing through the carriages to check passports. The main purpose of locating the UK controls in Paris is to deter asylum seekers. Any who claim at the UK controls in Paris or Brussels are simply re-directed to the French or Belgian immigration authorities, on the basis that they should claim in those (safe) countries and not the UK. The UK therefore doesn’t have to consider the claims formally nor provide financial support etc to the applicants. For other passengers there are also benefits in not having to queue for passport control on arrival in the UK. A similar system operates at Calais if travelling to Dover.

The system is replicated by other countries. An obvious example is Dublin & Shannon airports where US immigration have formal border controls, and so you avoid the infamous passport control on arrival in the US. Given the delays at US border controls, many airlines market this “service” as a benefit if you fly to the US via either of those Irish airports.

 

[fowler9]

The UK Border control is normally in Paris. Likewise in Brussels though in the past on train clearance has operated too, with UK Border Force staff passing through the carriages to check passports. The main purpose of locating the UK controls in Paris is to deter asylum seekers. Any who claim at the UK controls in Paris or Brussels are simply re-directed to the French or Belgian immigration authorities, on the basis that they should claim in those (safe) countries and not the UK. The UK therefore doesn’t have to consider the claims formally nor provide financial support etc to the applicants. For other passengers there are also benefits in not having to queue for passport control on arrival in the UK. A similar system operates at Calais if travelling to Dover.

The system is replicated by other countries. An obvious example is Dublin & Shannon airports where US immigration have formal border controls, and so you avoid the infamous passport control on arrival in the US. Given the delays at US border controls, many airlines market this “service” as a benefit if you fly to the US via either of those Irish airports.

Ah right of course. Cheers mate.

 

[Wolfie]

I think the British boarder control is in Paris rather than London. Can't remember what is the case the other way round.

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

Exactly the same in reverse, hence the French immigration officers at St Pancras (there are desks although there aren't many/any UK Border types doing outbound checks normally). I believe France, as the first Schengen country, performs the role for Belgium.

Have I miss understood someone here. In Paris do you go through both French and British checks? I don't remember that at Brussels Midi or any airport in world! Apologies if I read it wrong.

It must be some while since you went through Brussels on Eurostar. The set up is exactly as for Paris: Belgian immigration outbound checks (and they are done!) followed by UK immigration inbound checks.

 

[Chris999999]

Exactly the same in reverse, hence the French immigration officers at St Pancras (there are desks although there aren't many/any UK Border types doing outbound checks normally).

When Eurostar started there were UK border checks outbound at St Pancras. After a while the border staff stopped turning up at weekends. As nobody complained, they stopped turning up during the week as well. Someone then decided to remove the booths that they no longer used.

So if there are now booths for the UK to use, they must have been reinstalled.

 

[route101]

When Eurostar started there were UK border checks outbound at St Pancras. After a while the border staff stopped turning up at weekends. As nobody complained, they stopped turning up during the week as well. Someone then decided to remove the booths that they no longer used.

So if there are now booths for the UK to use, they must have been reinstalled.

At Glasgow airport they have 2 booths just after security with UK Border Force on them ! Never seen them used or look like they have been used .

 

[Elwyn]

At Glasgow airport they have 2 booths just after security with UK Border Force on them ! Never seen them used or look like they have been used .

The UK abolished routine outbound passport checks some time in the 1990s. However they are still undertaken from time to time on an intelligence led basis. So those desks you have seen will be used from time to time, just not every day nor for every flight.

 

[anme]

The UK abolished routine outbound passport checks some time in the 1990s. However they are still undertaken from time to time on an intelligence led basis. So those desks you have seen will be used from time to time, just not every day nor for every flight.

It is claimed that airlines (which have passengers' names and check them before boarding) pass this information to the authorities on departure from the UK. This is said to be why there are no explicit outbound checks.

However, although Eurostar tickets are named, as far as I can tell there is no check to confirm whether the name matches a passenger's passport. I don't know whether the names are passed to the authorities.

 

[Elwyn]

It is claimed that airlines (which have passengers' names and check them before boarding) pass this information to the authorities on departure from the UK. This is said to be why there are no explicit outbound checks.

However, although Eurostar tickets are named, as far as I can tell there is no check to confirm whether the name matches a passenger's passport. I don't know whether the names are passed to the authorities.

Passenger information is indeed passed by the airlines to UK immigration authorities and other border control authorities. There is legislation specifically requiring them to do so. It doesn’t entirely remove the benefits of checking passports when people leave because they can use false documentation and other dodges to avoid being identified but it does reduce the need for a permanent outbound passport control.

Not sure what the position is with Eurostar or with ferry companies.

Many other countries also require airlines to gather advanced passenger information and so the system benefits not just the UK.

 

[fowler9]

Exactly the same in reverse, hence the French immigration officers at St Pancras (there are desks although there aren't many/any UK Border types doing outbound checks normally). I believe France, as the first Schengen country, performs the role for Belgium.



It must be some while since you went through Brussels on Eurostar. The set up is exactly as for Paris: Belgian immigration outbound checks (and they are done!) followed by UK immigration inbound checks.

It was just over 2 years ago to be honest. I think I just forgot.

 

[Ianigsy]

On the one occasion that I've used Eurostar from Brussels, the issue was the Belgian exit booths being understaffed and one of the luggage x-ray machines being out of commission. The UK border people weren't letting any more people through than the Belgian checks could cope with.

Last time I went out from St Pancras, my passport was checked by some private security people rather than UK Border Force personnel (they wore the contractor's identification). I've had my passport checked after security at Manchester Airport once, but I've always assumed that this was some form of intelligence-led operation as it was just a visual check.

 

[anme]

On the one occasion that I've used Eurostar from Brussels, the issue was the Belgian exit booths being understaffed and one of the luggage x-ray machines being out of commission. The UK border people weren't letting any more people through than the Belgian checks could cope with.

The Belgian exit booths are *before* the UK entry booths in Brussels... (although I guess the luggage checks might back up to the UK booths if there are delays)

 

[jamesontheroad]

Totally agree -- GdN is vile. Brussels South is a decent station in a lousy area, but at least there's the Ibis straight across the road.

There's also the Pullman, which you can access directly from the main passerelle at Midi. It's also an Accor brand, but a bit pricier. The rooms are very nice. We've now used it a couple of times, catching the last train into Brussels before catching the first train out to London.

Last time I went out from St Pancras, my passport was checked by some private security people rather than UK Border Force personnel (they wore the contractor's identification).

Welcome to the UK, where everything is up for privatisation and contracting out for profit, even border security. It's a joke.