P&O Ferries to permanently stop accepting foot passengers on their Dover to Calais route.

[yorksrob]

We had that for about a year around 1998. The Connex coach service did a circle between Ashford, Cité Europe and Calais Ville.

Such a thing sounds like a decent idea as a budget option, particularly as the Eurostar stops in Kent don't appear to be coming back.

 

[RT4038]

I predict that by the DFDS or Irish ferries or both will miraculously start accepting foot passengers from around February. DFDS would seem the more obvious choice with a regular 3 or is it it 4 ship service including the brand new one

I think this is highly unlikely, bearing in mind the costs of providing the foot passenger service (buses at each end to ferry passengers from check-in to boat and vice-versa, plus separate check-in staff) for the tiny, tiny number of passengers who actually avail themselves of the service. It is just not commercially viable. [My last journey as a foot passenger, about 7 years ago, there were 8 foot passengers on the sailing]

That is the fault of government/UK authorities not the tunnel concept.

There could quite easily have been a local service* Ashford or Folkestone - Calais from the day the tunnel opened (in addition to Eurostar and Le Shuttle), but the UK government's 'hysteria' about safety aspects of the tunnel rolling stock and the perceived terrorist threat kyboshed any chance of a sensible arrangement - viz the Channel Tunnel night stock debacle.

* - the first train to carry passengers through the tunnel was a Thameslink class 319 for heavens' sake! Absolute proof that there are no actual technical barriers to a local service using non specialist stock. Without the ridiculous over zealous requirements for any rolling stock to be passed for use in the tunnel local EMUs could have been employed, and existing SNCF night stock used on night services from London.

Such a local service would require a (relatively) large amount of subsidy for a small potential market. It is unsurprising that no service has ever been established, and even less likely since Brexit, I should imagine.

Such a thing sounds like a decent idea as a budget option, particularly as the Eurostar stops in Kent don't appear to be coming back.

If anything, this is probably the least unlikely option, but I suspect it would still be at least £50 each way, so not really a budget option.

 

[johncrossley]

Such a thing sounds like a decent idea as a budget option, particularly as the Eurostar stops in Kent don't appear to be coming back.

I used it a few times. It was a good service and better than using the ferries.

 

[jon81uk]

Eurostar is utterly extortionate. I am normally charged around £200 for a Single or £400 for a Return just to go to Paris or Brussels which is only about two hours. I always purchase my Eurostar ticket on the day at the station just before my train so i do understand there are cheaper tickets in advance and online. However even in the UK our domestic trains do not cost that much to purchase a ticket on the day at the station.

UK domestic train prices are also crazy if you don't book in advance.
Eurostar to paris tomorrow is about £250 returning next day, LNER London to Edinburgh is also about £250. Book now for March and Eurostar is £105 but LNER is £110 to Edinburgh.
Probably would be the same with flights.

Not sure what the solution is but train pricing has been like this for the last twenty years really.

 

[Bletchleyite]

LNER London to Edinburgh is also about £250.

£82.20 each way, total £164.40, unless in the peak, Off Peak Singles (sometimes there are cheaper Advances even on the day). Expensive but not the typical newspaper quote expensive.

If Eurostar was that price I'd regularly do day trips on a whim. I'd agree without booking way in advance it's too expensive - planes aren't that bad these days.

 

[30907]

Though the train-boat connection years ago was via Western Docks, where there was a station alongside....

Of course (or via Folkestone Harbour) - but they weren't much use for a day trip, with the last service leaving Calais about 1600 (1230 Paris).

 

[Giugiaro]

No luggage checkin, lots of standing around and immigration staff treating you like an illegal.

This actually made me laugh!

 

[philg999]

How do foot passengers living in Kent usually commute to Calais, or vice versa?

There is no such commuter market. For a while Eurostar had a number commuting from Calais Frethun to London but that died with Brexit.

 

[johncrossley]

This actually made me laugh!

But sadly true. It's bad enough even if you are White British, but if you aren't you can expect to be searched or face detailed questioning.

 

[paul1609]

How do foot passengers living in Kent usually commute to Calais, or vice versa?

Employers minibus using Le Shuttle.

 

[Bletchleyite]

But sadly true. It's bad enough even if you are White British, but if you aren't you can expect to be searched or face detailed questioning.

I am and I *still* got a grilling. This was pre Brexit too.

It wasn't just a dour faced non-welcome, it was a proper set of stupid, pointless questions. I never said it, but I was thinking "look, I'm a British citizen with proof I live here, what do you actually want? I've come from France, not Afghanistan."

None of that nonsense at Portsmouth arriving from Caen where foot passengers are more usual.

 

[davetheguard]

As it was also many years ago on Sealink, before the Tunnel was even built; Foot passengers were treated as an inconvenience, obviously due to the lesser revenue compared to motorists.

Indeed. I particularly disliked the treatment at Dover Eastern Docks where you were bused from the ship to the customs hall; you then got off, went through customs, before emerging at the far end, and getting back on the same bus again! Said bus then -finally- took you to the station.

As a result, these ferry companies immediately lost my business as soon as the tunnel was open, and I've never been back.

 

[Cloud Strife]

As it was also many years ago on Sealink, before the Tunnel was even built; Foot passengers were treated as an inconvenience, obviously due to the lesser revenue compared to motorists.

I could be completely wrong, but wasn't it the case that luggage was checked in and delivered to the Travel Centre in Dover? I've only passed through the Travel Centre after the departure lounge was closed, but I'm led to believe that it used to be a much more civilised experience.

Certainly in the mid 2000s, there were facilities in the arrivals area at Dover for the delivery of luggage, although they appeared to be long out of use.

 

[paul1609]

I am and I *still* got a grilling. This was pre Brexit too.

It wasn't just a dour faced non-welcome, it was a proper set of stupid, pointless questions. I never said it, but I was thinking "look, I'm a British citizen with proof I live here, what do you actually want? I've come from France, not Afghanistan."

None of that nonsense at Portsmouth arriving from Caen where foot passengers are more usual.

Ive been loaned to the International Port at Pompey when there's been issues there. Foot Passenger business is so low that a 16 seater minibus that's also used for crew runabout is the normal foot passenger transport outside the school holiday weekends. They do have buses but they are normally used for the cruise ships now.
I liked working there being owned by the local council everybody's aware that they are competing with Pompeys enemy no. 1!

 

[Bletchleyite]

I could be completely wrong, but wasn't it the case that luggage was checked in and delivered to the Travel Centre in Dover?

Not recently, no. Probably did in the past.

I think to be honest it's low cost airlines that have killed it. It's not that cheap, so flying is almost always cheaper and doesn't dump you in a random provincial UK/French town with onward travel needed.

 

[RT4038]

Not recently, no. Probably did in the past.

I think to be honest it's low cost airlines that have killed it. It's not that cheap, so flying is almost always cheaper and doesn't dump you in a random provincial UK/French town with onward travel needed.

With the onward travel quite some distance away from the port, and geared to local travel needs. Although in the past the onward travel was situated in the port, the infrastructure changes required for efficient operation of the (by far) main business of conveying road vehicles has destroyed that facility.

As you say, the vast bulk of 'foot' passengers go by air [or E*or through motor coach], so there is no worthwhile business to be had [bearing in mind the additional costs of catering for them] for the ferry companies.

 

[Bletchleyite]

FWIW Brittany Ferries doesn't do luggage checkin as such either. You carry it on yourself and put it in a luggage room near the reception desk, a bit like a hotel luggage store (or your cabin if you have one and prefer it there). I was surprised P&O didn't do that to be honest, you genuinely had to wheel it round the whole time.

 

[Flying Snail]

FWIW Brittany Ferries doesn't do luggage checkin as such either. You carry it on yourself and put it in a luggage room near the reception desk, a bit like a hotel luggage store (or your cabin if you have one and prefer it there). I was surprised P&O didn't do that to be honest, you genuinely had to wheel it round the whole time.

The Irish sea routes (Stena and Irish Ferries) use airport style baggage belts. It just gets loaded onto a panel van that is driven onto the ferry and unloaded to another belt on arrival.

A massive DIY luggage room on-board used to be the procedure 30+ years ago when foot passenger numbers were high.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The Irish sea routes (Stena and Irish Ferries) use airport style baggage belts. It just gets loaded onto a panel van that is driven onto the ferry and unloaded to another belt on arrival.

Isle of Man does too. It's rather rough and ready at Liverpool and Heysham, but actually like an airport at Douglas.

 

[Flying Snail]

With the onward travel quite some distance away from the port, and geared to local travel needs. Although in the past the onward travel was situated in the port, the infrastructure changes required for efficient operation of the (by far) main business of conveying road vehicles has destroyed that facility.

As you say, the vast bulk of 'foot' passengers go by air [or E*or through motor coach], so there is no worthwhile business to be had [bearing in mind the additional costs of catering for them] for the ferry companies.

The majority of ferry routes serving the UK and across Europe* offer foot passenger carriage, while the numbers may not be huge they are not zero either.

It is rather disingenuous to make the service so bad (no public transport to the ferryport, 90 minute check-in, 30 minute disembarkation delay, pre-book only, small random selection of departures, etc) and then claim there is no demand.



* Excluding unaccompanied freight, 12 passenger ferries.

 

[Feuillesmortes]

There is no other decent option. There is no local cross channel train service. Eurostar is utterly extortionate. I am normally charged around £200 for a Single or £400 for a Return just to go to Paris or Brussels which is only about two hours. I always purchase my Eurostar ticket on the day at the station just before my train so i do understand there are cheaper tickets in advance and online. However even in the UK our domestic trains do not cost that much to purchase a ticket on the day at the station. So there needs to be more options for foot passengers. The remaining Newhaven to Dieppe ferry is great but it adds a lot of time to your journey depending on where you are going.

£205 for 4 days interrail + Eurostar fares £28 + £28 = just £261 !!

 

[miklcct]

£205 for 4 days interrail + Eurostar fares £28 + £28 = just £261 !!

Eurostar is no longer useful for those living in Kent unless there is a stop at Ashford International.

 

[Flying Snail]

£205 for 4 days interrail + Eurostar fares £28 + £28 = just £261 !!

Interrail reservations on Eurostar are restricted, they disappear on busy trains earlier than general sale tickets, often weeks ahead. At the point where regular E* fares become extortionately high there will 100% guaranteed be no interrail availability. For example, there is hardly any interrail availability left mid December to early January now and reservations have been unavailable on busy days around the holidays for weeks.

There is definitely demand for a cheaper more available alternative as long as it is reasonably easy to book and use. There are people who would use a decent rail-sea/tunnel-rail link over a day or night slog on a coach, especially if it avoids setting foot in that putrid bus station in Paris.

 

[RT4038]

The majority of ferry routes serving the UK and across Europe* offer foot passenger carriage, while the numbers may not be huge they are not zero either.

It is rather disingenuous to make the service so bad (no public transport to the ferryport, 90 minute check-in, 30 minute disembarkation delay, pre-book only, small random selection of departures, etc) and then claim there is no demand.



* Excluding unaccompanied freight, 12 passenger ferries.

It is not disingenuous - public transport has been provided to the ferryport in the past, but withdrawn due to being uneconomic as a result of lack of use. P&O did not have a 'small random selection of departures' - it was all departures during an approx 10hr daytime period. The check-in and pre-book is no different to any of their competitors. There can't be much business in spontaneous cross border travel. The issue is that the foot passenger business is just not likely to grow to the size required to finance the infrastructure investment needed to improve the experience.

 

[paul1609]

The majority of ferry routes serving the UK and across Europe* offer foot passenger carriage, while the numbers may not be huge they are not zero either.

It is rather disingenuous to make the service so bad (no public transport to the ferryport, 90 minute check-in, 30 minute disembarkation delay, pre-book only, small random selection of departures, etc) and then claim there is no demand.



* Excluding unaccompanied freight, 12 passenger ferries.

Assuming this is referring to Dover the " no public transport to the ferry port" was led by the reduction in demand. The port bus in truth ran for many years carrying either no or very few passengers (like literally a handful) before it was finally pulled. Im surprised it lasted as long as it did. I think the ticket sold on the Calais Day trip ticket worked out at around 1 per day for all Southeastern stations you don't need to be an economic genius to work out the commercial consequences.
The same is was true of the Ayr/ Cairnryan bus link in Scotland. Apart from the notional bus that has been left none of the services carried any sort of passenger numbers in the many times I saw it in the bus stop at Cairnryan. In truth there weren't that many foot passengers in total and what there were were largely being picked up/ dropped off. I used to visit quite often in a minibus picking up crew for Faslane Naval Base. I never went to Stranraer but it wouldn't have surprised me to learn that even when it was a through train to Glasgow it still didn't attract too many passengers.

 

[RT4038]

Interrail reservations on Eurostar are restricted, they disappear on busy trains earlier than general sale tickets, often weeks ahead. At the point where regular E* fares become extortionately high there will 100% guaranteed be no interrail availability. For example, there is hardly any interrail availability left mid December to early January now and reservations have been unavailable on busy days around the holidays for weeks.

There is definitely demand for a cheaper more available alternative as long as it is reasonably easy to book and use. There are people who would use a decent rail-sea/tunnel-rail link over a day or night slog on a coach, especially if it avoids setting foot in that putrid bus station in Paris.

And we know why this is - the outgoing CEO of Eurostar's letter about maximising revenue and the reasons has been posted, and debated, on this forum. I think the E* Interrail 'fare' should be expressed as £x (£35? or something) off the fare available at the time of booking, rather than not having any availability at all.

 

[Feuillesmortes]

At the point where regular E* fares become extortionately high there will 100% guaranteed be no interrail availability. For example, there is hardly any interrail availability left mid December to early January now and reservations have been unavailable on busy days around the holidays for weeks.

I checked London-Paris for the week before Christmas and there is loads of availability on interrail.eu. Perhaps that changes once logged in though?

 

[RT4038]

Assuming this is referring to Dover the " no public transport to the ferry port" was led by the reduction in demand. The port bus in truth ran for many years carrying either no or very few passengers (like literally a handful) before it was finally pulled. Im surprised it lasted as long as it did. I think the ticket sold on the Calais Day trip ticket worked out at around 1 per day for all Southeastern stations you don't need to be an economic genius to work out the commercial consequences.
The same is was true of the Ayr/ Cairnryan bus link in Scotland. Apart from the notional bus that has been left none of the services carried any sort of passenger numbers in the many times I saw it in the bus stop at Cairnryan. In truth there weren't that many foot passengers in total and what there were were largely being picked up/ dropped off. I used to visit quite often in a minibus picking up crew for Faslane Naval Base. I never went to Stranraer but it wouldn't have surprised me to learn that even when it was a through train to Glasgow it still didn't attract too many passengers.

In Feb 2019 I travelled, on a Friday, on the Ayr-Cairnryan ferry bus (the trip that is still running) and there were about 10 passengers.

 

[Trainbike46]

I think this is highly unlikely, bearing in mind the costs of providing the foot passenger service (buses at each end to ferry passengers from check-in to boat and vice-versa, plus separate check-in staff) for the tiny, tiny number of passengers who actually avail themselves of the service. It is just not commercially viable. [My last journey as a foot passenger, about 7 years ago, there were 8 foot passengers on the sailing]

Yet on other ferry connections, foot passengers can be quite significant in number.

For example, Belfast-Cairnryan tends to fill up the departure lounge in Belfast with just foot passengers now (during COVID there were fewer passengers obviously) And Belfast-Birkenhead tends to require more than one double-decker bus for each overnight sailing, at least around weekends.

Most foot passengers on the Carinryan ferry either arrive by one of the three daily citylink coaches, which regularly book out, or drive to Cairnryan and leave the car at the ferry terminal, or are dropped off by friends & family. Some people use SailRail, but it's once a day per direction connection is definitely less common than the other options. Though for Stena line, it obviously doesn't really matter how foot passengers get to the port

 

[rvdborgt]

I checked London-Paris for the week before Christmas and there is loads of availability on interrail.eu. Perhaps that changes once logged in though?

How did you check that? Did you log in? Only then you will see availability.
A better place to check is:

Seat reservation for Pass holders | SNCB International

As a holder of an Interrail or Eurail pass, you can book your seat or berth on high speed trains and night trains at the special Pass holder fare here.

www.b-europe.com