Passport Rules

[AlterEgo]

Yes, but the driver won't be checking whether you have entry permission (unlike at an airport where the airline staff are trained on such things). The reasons are a mixture of @route101 and @Bantamzen.

I believe the bus operator has to provide a passenger list on arrival at the port (certainly if the bus goes on a ship, and IIRC to immigration)

Yes - when I travelled on the route it was clear the bus attracted a certain demographic which may have a higher likelihood of irregular immigration, to put it diplomatically.

 

[dangie]

ID is required before boarding on Flixbus; I had to show the driver my passport when travelling London to Paris.

Is it just a cursory glance at the passport or passing it through a scanner as they do at airport check-in and security?

 

[AlterEgo]

Is it just a cursory glance at the passport or passing it through a scanner as they do at airport check-in and security?

On boarding, the driver basically makes sure you have a passport that is in your name and looks somewhat okay to an untrained eye. There is no formal border check on boarding. The formal check is at the port, and bus passengers have to leave and enter the border facility where officers will inspect it properly and determine entry.

 

[RT4038]

Yes - when I travelled on the route it was clear the bus attracted a certain demographic which may have a higher likelihood of irregular immigration, to put it diplomatically.

Quite. Plus access security at coach stops is not much.

 

[nw1]

Thus I don't see what difference relying on my fingerprints compared to looking at my photo makes. It’s all computer based these days and the paper passport is just a throwback to the old days to pacify dinosaurs who are resistant to change.

Or is it to pacify people who don't like the increasing tendency for electronic data to be collected about individuals?

A lot of people use ad blockers and the like, or alternative search engines when searching for anything at all sensitive or controversial (e.g. DuckDuckGo), so this is a not insignificant demographic.

 

[dangie]

Or is it to pacify people who don't like the increasing tendency for electronic data to be collected about individuals?…

I’d guess the biggest thing individuals can do to stop electronic data being collected is not to have a mobile phone.

 

[Buzby]

UK mobile providers don't charge any extra in the south

Of course they do! Any UK-based mobile is surcharged in the south and always has been Since the early days of GSM. A ‘local arrangement’ exists for 6-counties mobiles to roam in the south at no additional cost (and vice versa) when it was realised customers were being slammed into roaming charges when their network handed off to the cross border service.

When Three launched they made a big play of no roaming charges on either side for a time but all this went when we left the EU. Unless you pay additionally for a EU bolt-on, incoming and outgoing calls for roamers is an expensive business unless you opt for a 2nd SIM or eSIM to keep these costs under control.

 

[nw1]

I’d guess the biggest thing individuals can do to stop electronic data being collected is not to have a mobile phone.

Or install a "modded" version of the OS and be careful what apps you use, of course.

 

[dangie]

Or install a "modded" version of the OS and be careful what apps you use, of course.

I'll take your word for that as I'm not very technically knowledgeable on such matters

My point is that some are so against having their personal data saved & collected, yet they have no problem putting their whole life onto a mobile phone. Yes I know there is probably software you can install to help protect your data, but it's probably not 100%. Our whole life is now tracked and mapped.

Whereas personally I don't really like this, if it all helps keep us safe I've no problem. It's the world we live in.

 

[gswindale]

I don't really appreciate getting called a dinosaur for having an opinion about passport systems, that sounds like UK Border Forces problem for not having any offline backup system, not a reason to throw out physical passports entirely. Most countries apart from Britain have mandatory photo ID rules too, and telling Brits they can go without passports is just going to lead to lots of people ending up with fines as they didnt realise it was only in regards to the airport.

Er - where did I say it was the UK Border Force?

It was in fact in Atlanta on Sept 12, 2013 - the officers there were getting slightly agitated about the issue due to the date being so close to the anniversary of the 11/9 bombings.

 

[Enthusiast]

and if your going to go to a biometric ONLY system, you're going to end up with lots of stranded people

I get "stranded" every time I return to the UK. My two year old "ePassport" has never worked at the eGates and I have to go via the manual desks. Last time I arrived at Stansted it took me 45 minutes to get through border control (three out of about twelve desks staffed) when my wife was through the e-Gates in about five. The Border Control Officer asked me whether I'd had a nice trip. I explained that I had, until I arrived back in the UK, and told him why. His suggestion was to either shell out eighty-odd quid for a replacement or to pay eight quid a throw every time I arrive to go through "Fast Track." Sounds like a good deal. I look forward to visiting foreign countries as I gain admission to them far quicker than I do to the UK.

 

[dangie]

I get "stranded" every time I return to the UK. My two year old "ePassport" has never worked at the eGates and I have to go via the manual desks.….

I look forward to visiting foreign countries as I gain admission to them far quicker than I do to the UK.

I on the other hand have had no problems at UK immigration. The only time I remember having to go through a manual desk was at Munich Airport. So much for German technology

 

[zero]

My point is that some are so against having their personal data saved & collected, yet they have no problem putting their whole life onto a mobile phone.

It's certainly true that some people put their whole life onto a phone, and that some people are against having their personal data collected. I see this argument on many online forums. Why do you think these two groups contain the same people?

People I know in the former category and are not too bothered about privacy.

I am in the latter category and I try to only provide personal data there is a real benefit to me.

I on the other hand have had no problems at UK immigration. The only time I remember having to go through a manual desk was at Munich Airport. So much for German technology

Most people's passports are not faulty. If you are directed to manual processing, either the immigration computer system wants you to be checked manually (for which there are several reasons), or you used the machine incorrectly.

Since e-gates came in at the UK, I have suspected that most people who get rejected by the e-gates could actually get through by trying again with help to insert their passport correctly. After many years it appears the 'purple helpers' at Heathrow have finally cottoned on to this.

About 7 years ago I was shouted at to go to the manual desk when my hand got stiff and I couldn't position my passport correctly in time - when the shouter was distracted I managed to go to a different e-gate and got through.

More recently I suspected I was flagged and would not be let through automatically - this time I got shouted at to try again, I told him it wouldn't work and I was correct - but I observed other people getting through when trying again.

 

[Jamiescott1]

I have no issue getting into EU or any country worldwide with my UK passport except the UK.
About 8 years ago my old passport stopped working on egates and ever since I've had to go to a desk (which usually involves a large queue - Wednesday this week was a 30 minute queue).
I've been told once that my name matches someone wanted hence I have to be checked to make sure I'm not gim even though I'm clearly not.

 

[dangie]

…I've been told once that my name matches someone wanted hence I have to be checked to make sure I'm not him even though I'm clearly not.

So if you’re not him then who are you

 

[AlterEgo]

I've been told once that my name matches someone wanted hence I have to be checked to make sure I'm not gim even though I'm clearly not.

That doesn't seem very likely at all, unless you also share other identifying info like a date of birth.

 

[dangie]

Since e-gates came in at the UK, I have suspected that most people who get rejected by the e-gates could actually get through by trying again with help to insert their passport correctly...

This I do agree with. My local airport is Birmingham. I can’t speak for other airports but when I first started using my electronic passport the ‘diagram’ which showed which way to insert the passport was about as clear as a flat pack instruction leaflet from MFI. Countless times I saw people placing their passport each and every way before it was either accepted or they called for assistance.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

That doesn't seem very likely at all, unless you also share other identifying info like a date of birth.

Surely unless it was a very common name like John Smith they really would check everyone of the wanted name?

 

[AlterEgo]

Surely unless it was a very common name like John Smith they really would check everyone of the wanted name?

Why would they do that when your biometric passport contains loads of other information about you, which is available to the officer and the eGate? That someone should share the same name is only a small part of the puzzle.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Why would they do that when your biometric passport contains loads of other information about you, which is available to the officer and the eGate? That someone should share the same name is only a small part of the puzzle.

Passports can be stolen or faked.

It's better that they don't take chances.

 

[Jamiescott1]

Why would they do that when your biometric passport contains loads of other information about you, which is available to the officer and the eGate? That someone should share the same name is only a small part of the puzzle.

I'm not convinced but there's a few treads on reddit and flyer talk of people with same problem who have been you'd the samec

 

[AlterEgo]

Passports can be stolen or faked.

It's better that they don't take chances.

If it was a stolen or fake UK passport it wouldn't work the eGate anyway, as it uses facial recognition and a biometric chip.

I'm not convinced but there's a few treads on reddit and flyer talk of people with same problem who have been you'd the samec

Of course it's what the officer will tell you, but it is unlikely to be true. It's more likely your passport - which is unique - has been personally flagged for manual checks because of some intelligence relating to you or your travel pattern. Most of this intelligence is benign - I had three consecutive refusals at eGates at three different UK airports after an officer noted I had been in Azerbaijan for two calendar days, a hotbed for weapons smuggling.

 

[Yew]

Then they must face up to reality when they emerge from under their rock. International travel involves complying with the rules of your destination. If you cannot be bothered to look them up then you will have to face the consequences. I have travelled four or five times a year since Brexit with various carriers. On every occasion the passport rules have been emphasised to me when booking (and once or twice after that and before I set off for the airport).

The expiry date of the document is clearly noted upon it, it is reasonable to expect that a passport be deemed valid until the date inscribed upon it by the issuing authority.

 

[AlterEgo]

The expiry date of the document is clearly noted upon it, it is reasonable to expect that a passport be deemed valid until the date inscribed upon it by the issuing authority.

It's not reasonable to assume that will be fine though - many countries will not accept you entering without a certain amount of time left on the passport, and the rule really is to always check. This isn't new; the story has done the rounds every year since the rule came in.

 

[Enthusiast]

Since e-gates came in at the UK, I have suspected that most people who get rejected by the e-gates could actually get through by trying again with help to insert their passport correctly.

Nope. Been there, done that (and they didn't give me a T-shirt).

I've had help, instruction and condescension, in various amounts and mixtures. My passport simply doesn't work. It never has and it seems it never will. Any normal organisation charging eighty quid for something found to be faulty would be duty bound to replace it free of charge. Not His Majesty's Passport Office, it seems.

 

[infobleep]

I was discussing duel citizenship and passports with some people recently and someone said when they return to either country they are a citizen of, they need to show the passport from that country so they always need to have an up-to-date passport in both countries if travelling to or from them.

Passports of the other country don't work because they would think they have renounced your citizenship, so I was told.

Is this the case or is it just the case in some countries?

I have had a UK passport but before it recently expired, I got an Irish passport. Unbeknown to me I was already an Irish Citizen, have been born before 2006 and one of my parents being born in Ireland.

I knew I could apply for an Irish passport but not that I was already an Irish citizen.

I hadn't any intention of renewing my UK passport. If the above rules on which passport to show applies, it may not apply between the UK and Ireland due to the common travel area. I had no issues coming back from France recently via Eurostar.

 

[JamesT]

I was discussing duel citizenship and passports with some people recently and someone said when they return to either country they are a citizen of, they need to show the passport from that country so they always need to have an up-to-date passport in both countries if travelling to or from them.

Passports of the other country don't work because they would think they have renounced your citizenship, so I was told.

Is this the case or is it just the case in some countries?

I have had a UK passport but before it recently expired, I got an Irish passport. Unbeknown to me I was already an Irish Citizen, have been born before 2006 and one of my parents being born in Ireland.

I knew I could apply for an Irish passport but not that I was already an Irish citizen.

I hadn't any intention of renewing my UK passport. If the above rules on which passport to show applies, it may not apply between the UK and Ireland due to the common travel area. I had no issues coming back from France recently via Eurostar.

I don't believe the UK has such rules.
The famous example is the US, where it is an offence for a US citizen to enter the country on a foreign passport - https://travel.state.gov/content/tr...onsiderations/Dual-Nationality-Travelers.html

• You must enter and leave the United States on your U.S. passport. You are not allowed to enter on your foreign passport, because U.S. law requires all U.S. citizens to enter and depart the U.S. on a valid U.S. passport. U.S. citizens are not eligible for a U.S. visa.

If you're only going to have one passport, you won't need to worry about the other issue that you should enter and exit a country on the same passport.

 

[RT4038]

I don't believe the UK has such rules.
The famous example is the US, where it is an offence for a US citizen to enter the country on a foreign passport - https://travel.state.gov/content/tr...onsiderations/Dual-Nationality-Travelers.html

If you're only going to have one passport, you won't need to worry about the other issue that you should enter and exit a country on the same passport.

South Africa is similar - In terms of section 26(B) of the South African Citizenship Act, 1995, it is a punishable offence for a South African citizen of 18 years and older to leave or enter South Africa on a foreign passport. https://www.dha.gov.za/index.php/civic-services/travel-documents

 

[infobleep]

South Africa is similar - In terms of section 26(B) of the South African Citizenship Act, 1995, it is a punishable offence for a South African citizen of 18 years and older to leave or enter South Africa on a foreign passport. https://www.dha.gov.za/index.php/civic-services/travel-documents

Indeed it is and the person I was chatting to is a duel Dutch & South African citizen.

 

[zero]

Why would they do that when your biometric passport contains loads of other information about you, which is available to the officer and the eGate? That someone should share the same name is only a small part of the puzzle.

I think that the border agencies are simultaneously more competent and less competent than one expects.

Officers can obtain additional information by going to the office, but I suspect not that much information is immediately available on the screen (based on several interactions where even if they were trying to catch me out, they would probably have phrased questions differently).

The expiry date of the document is clearly noted upon it, it is reasonable to expect that a passport be deemed valid until the date inscribed upon it by the issuing authority.

Say the UK decided that some adults could have passports with a 20 year validity period - then the UK would absolutely have to regard those passports as valid for 20 years, but it would also be reasonable for other countries to regard them as valid for only 10 years if they do the same to their own passports.

The other issue is that if a country has a maximum stay period, they may also want your passport to be valid on the last day you could leave plus a further period for leeway. If you had a residency visa/permit for country A in your passport of country B, even if passport B was about to expire, you would generally be allowed to travel to A if visa A had a longer validity

someone said when they return to either country they are a citizen of, they need to show the passport from that country so they always need to have an up-to-date passport in both countries if travelling to or from them.

Passports of the other country don't work because they would think they have renounced your citizenship, so I was told.

I knew I could apply for an Irish passport but not that I was already an Irish citizen.

I hadn't any intention of renewing my UK passport. If the above rules on which passport to show applies, it may not apply between the UK and Ireland due to the common travel area. I had no issues coming back from France recently via Eurostar.

I don't believe the UK has such rules.
The famous example is the US, where it is an offence for a US citizen to enter the country on a foreign passport - https://travel.state.gov/content/tr...onsiderations/Dual-Nationality-Travelers.html

Most countries will accept recently expired passports as proof of citizenship. If you manage to turn up at UK immigration with a recently expired passport it should generally be ok, they may do some checks in the office.

The problem is airlines don't want to take the risk.

If a country allows multiple citizenship, there is no reason to think that a citizen has renounced their citizenship just because they have another passport. New Zealand explicitly allows citizens to get a "visa" in a foreign passport saying they are NZ citizens. The UK also has this for citizens who don't want to/can't get a British passport, although it costs a lot more than the passport.

Airlines also do not know your citizenships, so if you have a passport which would allow entry as a tourist that would generally be accepted - e.g. a US/UK citizen could use their US passport to travel to the UK. Currently the UK allows US citizens to enter via e-gates without any extra steps - the UK system may or may not know the US citizen is also British, and it is possible that it might send some of these people for manual processing, but the UK doesn't have a register of everyone who is or could be a citizen.

In the future the UK will require an ETA before travel to the UK, but British and Irish passport holders are exempt. I would think that as long as Irish citizens have the right to live in the UK, there will not be any problem for a British/Irish citizen to use either passport to travel in and out of the UK.

But someone who is UK/another country may end up being forced to have a British passport to travel to the UK, if the ETA system does not allow British or Irish citizens (who don't have the passport) to apply with a foreign passport - like the similar Australia/US/Canada systems. On the other hand plenty of US citizens have managed to get ESTAs in foreign, including British, passports and used them to travel to the US. While it is an offence to not use a US passport to travel to the US, there doesn't seem to be any specified penalty for doing so