Pendolino or Voyager ? (or other...)

[oversteer]

Go Chiltern and get a LHCS service. Make sure you sit in the old first class seats (Chiltern do not operate first class but still have a First carriage). I don't think you can reserve seats with Chiltern so get on the train as soon as you can

 

[NXEA!]

Personally, I'd say get the Pendolino. Apart from the seats which don't line up with the windows, and the small windows they really are great trains. You get a great feeling of raw power with them, especially when pulling away from a Watford Junction or Milton Keynes stop on the EBW, as they have to accelerate to 125 as quick as possible, and they match the Desiro's for acceleration, or even possibly pip them to the post I would've thought, which is a good feat considering they are Intercity trains geared for higher speeds. The tilt is a good experience, especially at Berkhamsted on the reverse curves, great fun. For the travel experience, they really are the best trains IMO. Also, if you get a Voyager, they basically are the Diesel Pendolino, they accelerate like sh*t off a shovel, and match the Desiro's pretty much. A little tip if you get a Voyager - Sit in Coach D. Very, very comfortable multi-purpose seats. Enjoy your journey.

 

[sprinterguy]

Best parts are Berkhamsted station, (Tring is actually on straight track), Leighton Buzzard tunnel (northbound only), Wolverton station, and the area around Weedon.

You'll get close to the full 8 degrees of tilt at these sections.

Ah, thanks for that; I couldn't quite remember which part of the south end of the WCML it was.

 

[43167]

In an ideal world it would still 87/90+mk3's (replaced way too early, 90's 15years old, DVTs about same, and some of the Mk3 FO's were only built in 1986). But now we have to make do with 2 of the worst design of train ever.

BTW those ages I quote are those of the 90s & DVT's in 2003/2004 when the pendos started appearing.

If going from Birmingham to London, I would choose Chiltern with out a 2nd thought.

 

[AlterEgo]

A little tip if you get a Voyager - Sit in Coach D. Very, very comfortable multi-purpose seats. Enjoy your journey.

There's free WiFi in Coach D as it's a hybrid carriage sometimes used for 1st Class. The WiFi doesn't discern between the two duties though - so it's "always on"!

 

[sprinterguy]

In an ideal world it would still 87/90+mk3's (replaced way too early, 90's 15years old, DVTs about same, and some of the Mk3 FO's were only built in 1986). But now we have to make do with 2 of the worst design of train ever.

BTW those ages I quote are those of the 90s & DVT's in 2003/2004 when the pendos started appearing.

If going from Birmingham to London, I would choose Chiltern with out a 2nd thought.

And the newest former West Coast stock still is seeing regular use, over on the Anglian main line, but it would have been insufficient to operate the West Coast service without having to order in a load of new stock anyway to replace the ageing 86s, 87s and mark 2s.

The Pendolinos aren't just about new trains to replace old either: They've drastically reduced journey times, upped reliability by a good margin and allowed more frequent services to run by freeing up extra fast line paths and through more intensive fleet rostering. I for one would rather have all of those benefits than being consigned to potter along the WCML at a maximum of 110mph, with more limiting speed restrictions than we have now, for the next twenty years.

The APT project would have seen the demise of traditional loco hauled stock on the West Coast in the eighties, and the Intercity 250 project would have done the same about a decade later, so I'm glad that the West Coast has finally seen progress that moves it beyond the 1960s.

 

[Geezertronic]

People who would choose Chiltern over VT obviously have too much time on their hands to enjoy their journey Me? I'd rather get from BHI to EUS and return as quickly as possible.

 

[junglejames]

Seriuously? The Pendolinos go like sh*t off a shovel from a standing start compared to just about anything in this country that isn't a suburban EMU, which is quite amazing for such a heavy train. It really goes to show the benefits of distributed traction, and its' nice to know that finally the West Coast route to Scotland has been brought up to the same speed as the East, after lagging behind for years.

First class on a Pendolino has a great ambience to it: I'd say it's "cosy". Standard class is comfortable enough on a quiet train where there's a few seats to choose from, but nothing spectacular on a busy service.

The reverse curves around Tring (IIRC) are great fun for tilting: It might be worth giving the Pendolinos a go simply for that bit: If you can't notice it then you must have your eyes shut (And hence it is doing its' job by compensating for the G forces round curves)!

Seriously. I hardly noticed the acceleration. I shall be giving them another go soon when i go for a 2 week 1st class ALR. Shall see what i think of them then. Im not saying they dont have good acceleration. Just that it wasnt very noticeable to me, and there was absolutely no wow factor. Its possible that the awfully uncomfortable seat i was in, and the cramped feel of the train was clouding my mind, and so thats why i never noticed it.

Certainly the fact i never noticed the tilt showed how good tilt can be. No denying that.
As for 1st class. Its pleasant enough, but id say a 'great ambience' was a slight exageration. Certainly not how id describe it. Cosy? Yes possibly, although standard class is even more cosy! All in a bad way
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

For the travel experience, they really are the best trains IMO

Oh definitely. They are fantastic trains for the travel experience.
The worst in travel experience that is!

They are good because they tilt. Thats the only advantage they have got over any other stock in the UK.

 

[T163R]

Good lord
What imma gonna choose ?
I may go 390 to Birmingham and 168 from Birmingham

On the London <> Birmingham routes, what's the max speed with 390s (Virgin) and with 168s (Chiltern) ?

 

[sprinterguy]

On the London <> Birmingham routes, what's the max speed with 390s (Virgin) and with 168s (Chiltern) ?

125mph on the West Coast with 390s and 100mph on Chiltern with 168s (I assume they actually reach 100? Especially with Evergreen 3 dropping into place now).

 

[T163R]

125mph on the West Coast with 390s and 100mph on Chiltern with 168s.

Do I have much chances to have a 125mph run with 390s ?

 

[WestCoast]

Good lord
What imma gonna choose ?
I may go 390 to Birmingham and 168 from Birmingham

On the London <> Birmingham routes, what's the max speed with 390s (Virgin) and with 168s (Chiltern) ?

I'd honestly take a 390 one way and 168 the other.

168s are max speed 100mph, but they wont be constant at that speed at all, and they are bog standard British trains that don't tilt (not that is necessarily a bad thing).

390s are max speed 125mph, they accelerate faster and tilt to 9 degrees, hence they travel quicker. It's not all that noticeable, but in engineering terms, they are impressive trains.

I think the 390s have a very nice first class, a different world to standard.

They are good because they tilt. Thats the only advantage they have got over any other stock in the UK.

They offer a better experience than a Voyager IMO.

Seriously. I hardly noticed the acceleration. I shall be giving them another go soon when i go for a 2 week 1st class ALR. Shall see what i think of them then. Im not saying they dont have good acceleration. Just that it wasnt very noticeable to me, and there was absolutely no wow factor. Its possible that the awfully uncomfortable seat i was in, and the cramped feel of the train was clouding my mind, and so thats why i never noticed it.

How many times have you travelled on a Pendolino? I'm a regular user and know the best seats in standard and usually have an overall positive travel experience. Whereas, Voyagers usually involve a bad experience, due to lack of seating and cluttered interior.

I dislike Voyagers but don't mind Pendolinos. I say this as a true HST and loco fan!

 

[T163R]

I'd honestly take 390 one way and 168 the other.

Yep, that's what I finally thought of.

 

[tbtc]

They are good because they tilt. Thats the only advantage they have got over any other stock in the UK.

Plus phenomenal reliability, meaning they can be used much more intensively than other/previous stock - look at the distances each set manages a day

 

[Failed Unit]

People who would choose Chiltern over VT obviously have too much time on their hands to enjoy their journey Me? I'd rather get from BHI to EUS and return as quickly as possible.

I understand that will soon depend on where you are travelling between and some journeys will be quicker door to door on Chiltern. At least brum has the choice.

 

[DarloRich]

I weould have a run on a pendo. Then come back from Birmingham on a Chiltern loco hauled train. Make your own mind up after that. (I know which I find more comfortable and enjoyable. I also know which is the quickler and more frequent option)

When i saw the title of this thread i was hoping i could just say niether!

 

[T163R]

When do loco hauled trains run from London to Birmingham ? (and/or back)

 

[sprinterguy]

Chiltern loco hauled Diagrams from May 28th 2011 onwards
Up
05:43 Moor Street - Marylebone (Solihull, Dorrdige, Warwick, Warwick PW, Banbury, Bicester)
06:14 Moor Street - Marylebone (Solihull, Dorridge, Warwick PW, Leamington, Banbury)
06:53 Banbury - Marylebone (Bicester, Haddenham, P Risboro)
10:55 Moor Street - Marylebone (Solihull, Warwick PW, Leamington, Banbury, Bicester)
15:55 Moor Street - Marylebone (Solihull, Warwick PW, Leamington, Banbury, Bicester, Haddenham, Wycombe)

Down
08:20 Marylebone - Moor Street (Bicester, Banbury, Leamington, Warwick PW, Solihull)
13:20 Marylebone - Moor Street (Bicester, Banbury, Leamington, Warwick PW, Solihull)
16:30 Marylebone - Moor Street (Bicester, Banbury, Leamington, Warwick PW, Dorridge, Solihull)
18:06 Marylebone - Banbury (P Risboro', Haddenham, Bicester)
18:30 Marylebone - Moor Street (Bicester, Banbury, Leamington, Warwick, Warwick PW, Dorridge, Solihull)

 

[MCR247]

Don't come back on a 168, it isn't worth it, only come back on one of the journeys listed above

People only suggested 168s instead of 390s, there is no point going out of your way to get a train that gets overtaken by people using a zimmerframe (acceleration wise), the MK3s are something to go out of your way for

 

[BrummyBoy]

Personally id go for the Pendo mate, as much as i like the 168's the WCML can be quite fun on a 125mph Pendo (as long as there is no delays etc). There is always the third option of a LM 350 but i personally wudn't recomend it (although it is usually the cheapest).

 

[Pumbaa]

Do I have much chances to have a 125mph run with 390s ?

Yes - the WCML south is mainly 125 to Rugby with them (apart from Watford and south of Willesden). Most of the journey is at 125 until you branch off to Coventry and then onto Brum.

 

[Cherry_Picker]

125mph on the West Coast with 390s and 100mph on Chiltern with 168s (I assume they actually reach 100? Especially with Evergreen 3 dropping into place now).

168s hit 100mph in several places. Heading south out of Birmingham they will briefly be running at 100mph between Lapworth and Hatton (along the stretch where the railway line runs alongside the M40) or if they dont stop at Dorridge they will be doing 100 from Dorridge station to the 85mph speed restriction at Hatton.

They will run at 95mph from just beyond the tunnel at Harbury to the 75mph speed restriction at Fenny Compton, then 90 from the other side of the restriction all the way through to the viaducts the other side of Ahyno junction (with a stop at Banbury of course) then it can be 100mph all the way from Ardley tunnel to just north of Princes Risborough. If the trains stop at Bicester North, and most do, then you can take out a couple of miles of 100mph running due to the deceleration to and acceleration away from the station.

Class 67s are currently restricted to 90mph between Leamington Spa and Fenny Compton (and 70mph south of Princes Risborough instead of 75) but their superior acceleration makes up for having to run 5mph slower in places.

 

[western Champion]

Yes - the WCML south is mainly 125 to Rugby with them (apart from Watford and south of Willesden). Most of the journey is at 125 until you branch off to Coventry and then onto Brum.

From just after leaving Coventry it is 125 to just before Rugby flyover where it goes 110 then 75 at the top of the flyover then once off the flyover it is 125 through Rugby and through to Kilsby, 110 through the tunnel then back to 125 until Weedon. 120 round Weedon then 125 all the way to Watford tunnel. 110 through the tunnel and station then back to 125 just before Bushey. 125 until roughly opposite Wembley Depot where it drops to 110. Then 105 after Kensal Green tunnel. 80 at Queens Park. 55 through Primrose Hill tunnel. 50 out the tunnel. 40 at Park Street and 25 from the last signal and through out the station area (Assumes using lines A, B, C or D).

 

[AlterEgo]

From just after leaving Coventry it is 125 to just before Rugby flyover where it goes 110 then 75 at the top of the flyover then once off the flyover it is 125 through Rugby and through to Kilsby, 110 through the tunnel then back to 125 until Weedon. 120 round Weedon then 125 all the way to Watford tunnel. 110 through the tunnel and station then back to 125 just before Bushey. 125 until roughly opposite Wembley Depot where it drops to 110. Then 105 after Kensal Green tunnel. 80 at Queens Park. 55 through Primrose Hill tunnel. 50 out the tunnel. 40 at Park Street and 25 from the last signal and through out the station area (Assumes using lines A, B, C or D).

That's some great info there - are you a driver?

 

[T163R]

Guys, i'm going to hit both

 

[MCR247]

Make sure you get one of these trains back
05:43 Moor Street - Marylebone (Solihull, Dorrdige, Warwick, Warwick PW, Banbury, Bicester)
06:14 Moor Street - Marylebone (Solihull, Dorridge, Warwick PW, Leamington, Banbury)
06:53 Banbury - Marylebone (Bicester, Haddenham, P Risboro)
10:55 Moor Street - Marylebone (Solihull, Warwick PW, Leamington, Banbury, Bicester)
15:55 Moor Street - Marylebone (Solihull, Warwick PW, Leamington, Banbury, Bicester, Haddenham, Wycombe)

Like I said, don't get a 168, they aren't worth it. MK3s are

 

[T163R]

Make sure you get one of these trains back
05:43 Moor Street - Marylebone (Solihull, Dorrdige, Warwick, Warwick PW, Banbury, Bicester)
06:14 Moor Street - Marylebone (Solihull, Dorridge, Warwick PW, Leamington, Banbury)
06:53 Banbury - Marylebone (Bicester, Haddenham, P Risboro)
10:55 Moor Street - Marylebone (Solihull, Warwick PW, Leamington, Banbury, Bicester)
15:55 Moor Street - Marylebone (Solihull, Warwick PW, Leamington, Banbury, Bicester, Haddenham, Wycombe)

Like I said, don't get a 168, they aren't worth it. MK3s are

Is the price with Mk3s the same that with 168s ?

 

[western Champion]

That's some great info there - are you a driver?

Yes...

 

[sprinterguy]

Is the price with Mk3s the same that with 168s ?

Yes, exactly the same. £5 and £10 Birmingham to London advance fares available subject to availability, just like all the other services.

 

[T163R]

Yes, exactly the same. £5 and £10 Birmingham to London advance fares available subject to availability, just like all the other services.

Okay !