people who commute _out_ of London

[34D]

Hello,

Yesterday I was in London, staying overnight in central London, and this morning travelling Waterloo to Weybridge.

I am quite astounded by the numbers of people who travel out of London for work. I've noticed this on other lines, ie to Reading/Milton Keynes etc etc.

Is it just me who feels really really sorry for these people?

 

[Smethwickian]

Why feel sorry for them? Surely not because any London-centric person would think they're leaving what's perceived to be the centre of the universe and entering realms where maps are only marked with 'here be dragons'?

We do have electricity and running water in places outside the M25, you know.

Or have I utterly misunderstood your implication (intended or otherwise)?

 

[maniacmartin]

I used to commute outwards, from Finsbury Park to Hatfield. When I first started doing that commute, I was surprised at just how many people did a similar thing. Most days I couldn't get a seat, and the ticket prices were still pretty high.

I also had an outwards commute in the past from Oxford to a station on the Cotswold line. The trains were all at inconvenient times, but it was great. Cheap prices thanks to a Cotswold railcard (could be used against peak at peak times) and empty HSTs where you could always get a table to yourself.

Why do you feel so sorry for these commuters? London can be a logical place to live if you change jobs a lot, or do a lot of travelling to meetings in various towns, as you can get to anywhere easily from London. It's also useful if you and your partner work in different places and still want to work together.

 

[asylumxl]

Or have I utterly misunderstood your implication (intended or otherwise)?

Perhaps it's because all 3 places are incredibly characterless?

 

[Urban Gateline]

Another reason not to feel sorry for them is that they will most likely have a much nicer commute than those going into London, as they will be travelling against the mass flow in peak times rather than in it! It's much more likely they'll get a seat I reckon.

 

[transmanche]

Another reason not to feel sorry for them is that they will most likely have a much nicer commute than those going into London, as they will be travelling against the mass flow in peak times rather than in it! It's much more likely they'll get a seat I reckon.

You'd be surprised how busy some trains are in the 'contra-peak' direction.

About ten years ago, I commuted from north London to Wimbledon: despite regular 8-car trains, I often had to stand from Vauxhall to Wimbledon. I've also done regular batches of a week's commuting from North London to Winnersh Triangle: some trains from Paddington to Reading are very busy in the morning peak. And as noted by maniacmartin most days he wouldn't be able to get a seat on a Finsbury Park to Hatfield commute.

And you'll notice that many of those commutes involve travelling into central London and then out again the other side - so you get all the pitfalls of commuting into London before you even start your main journey!

 

[Hartington]

In 1978 I lived in Croydon and got a job in Maidenhead. So, up to Victoria, and across to Paddington where I caught a train just before 0745 which was the only one about that time that got me to Maidenhead in time for 0900 start. It was quite well used but not heaving and it stopped at every single station I seem to remember. Then in 1979 I moved house to Maidenhead. My business required me to go into London on occasion and, as the years progressed, more and more office space was built in and around Maidenhead and more and more people began commuting in as well as out and the service began to reflect that. The commuting flow at Maidenhead is still predominantly to London but, on a London bound train, there will be a large exchange of passengers at Slough. There is also a significant flow beyond Maidenhead outbound to Reading.

Even with the improved services from Paddington outbound in the peak these days if I lived in Croydon and had to commute to Maidenhead I would move house. But then again, I might not. There was a point in my career when I had children established at a good secondary school just outside Reading. We did consider moving not long after the older of the two boys started there and we chose to restrict our search to places where they would still be able to get to the school easily (school bus routes). In the end we extended. If I had chosen to change job whilst they were at that school I would have taken the commuting hit rather than move them to a different school.

Where you choose to live and the resulting commute is a sum of many pieces. For other married couples it may well be a compromise between where the two of them work and if one works in Weybridge and the other in, say, Canary Wharf somewhere like Wandsworth may be a reasonable balance for both parties with one commuting in and the other out of London.

Having retired I now live in Somerset. I still get a buzz out of London (I was born in West London and lived there most of the time until I moved to Croydon for a couple of years and then to Maidenhead) and for all its' faults I think it still has its' attractions. My younger son having spent time in at Nottingham and then Bath Universities now lives in Salisbury and he likes it but he still seems to think one day he would like to live in London for a while.

 

[cjohnson]

The SWT Windsor lines get quite busy in the morning peaks going away from London - so much so that there's also a cycle ban on trains leaving London on those trains between 0745 and 0900. Usually it's commuters going to some of the bigger sites outside central London e.g. Sky (Syon Lane), BP (Feltham), GSK (Brentford)

 

[A-driver]

Some of the early London-Cambridge trains get almost as busy as those going the other way. Ok most get on after Stevenage but there are large numbers getting on at kings x and Finsbury park.

In fact the northbound platforms get very busy during the morning rush hour at Finsbury park - people travelling through London to going to places like new barnet, Gordon hill, Enfield chase, Hatfield, Welwyn, Stevenage, Letchworth etc to work.

 

[jon0844]

I used to commute outwards, from Finsbury Park to Hatfield. When I first started doing that commute, I was surprised at just how many people did a similar thing. Most days I couldn't get a seat, and the ticket prices were still pretty high.

Hatfield does have an awful lot of people arriving in the morning, just as there are loads of people waiting to go into London.

There are then a number of buses outside to shuttle people over the Hatfield Business Park where a lot (most?) of them work. Quite likely at EE, formerly T-Mobile.

An awful lot also take taxis from outside the station, which is obviously going to be very expensive compared to the bus (workers can get a pretty cheap season ticket to use buses to/from the business park) so I have to assume some people are on rather good salaries, or able to claim the travel on expenses or something.

There have been season tickets in the past that are cheaper for going against the flow, but I guess in the case of Hatfield you can argue that the flow is just as high in both directions now.

 

[John Webb]

In 1969 I started a new job at Borehamwood and commuted into Central London from SE London by SR EMUs (standing room only) then the Northern line (likewise) to St Pancras and found myself on virtually empty DMUs! But nearly one and a half hours travelling time each day each way.
However, from 1975 to 1977 the annual season ticket nearly doubled in price and I found I could get a mortgage for little more on a pleasant maisonette just 15 minutes gentle drive from work. So I moved.

 

[A-driver]

Hatfield does have an awful lot of people arriving in the morning, just as there are loads of people waiting to go into London.

They should all swap jobs...then they get longer in bed in the morning, don't have to pay such high travel costs and it would reduce overcrowding!

Seriously though I always thought it funny when I used to sign the east grinstead line that in the morning on down trains you picked up a load of school kids in a certain colour blazer at Croydon who all got off at sanderstead. A different colour then got on a sanderstead who got off at riddlesdown to be replaced by another lot and this went on all the way to lingfield! I often wondered why they didn't all just go to the school in their own town!

 

[Ivo]

On the subject of cycle restrictions due to heavy contrafows, there are also blanket restrictions heading towards Brighton. I would have thought that it must attract a fair few commuters from the Croydon area (which must get a fair few of its own) as well as around Sussex.

 

[Deerfold]

A friend had a fixed term contract in Ipswich (although it kept been extended and ended up lasting about 3 times as long as long as he expected. He took advantage of this to base himself temporarily at his girlfriend's mother's house (where his girlfriend lived) in Zone 2. He loved commuting to and from Ipswich on very quiet trains against the flow with only a short underground trip which was busy. He worked fixed hours so every week bought a batch of advance tickets, often for first class, paying far less than a commuter the other way.

Didn't half annoy the person behind him when he went to pick all the tickets though as he used to pick up 2 or 3 weeks' worth at a time.

 

[IanD]

Perhaps it's because all 3 places are incredibly characterless?

There's always one.

Why live in London and commute to Milton Keynes/Reading when it would be cheaper to live in either place compared to London?

 

[tsr]

I do like it when my commute times itself so I leave London (towards the East Surrey area in this case) at either around 1000, 1130 or 1430 - it's always nice and quiet, proving that even if you've gone into London when it's heaving (or just horribly early and slightly busy), you can still have a peaceful and relaxing journey on the way back - and that's not even against the flow. On topic, though, I do for a few weeks from time to time have a commute which includes a Clapham Junction - Wimbledon hop on SWT, and I have always found a seat for the few minutes it takes, without fail. A nice refreshing change after standing on a rammed 377/319/455...

 

[gordonthemoron]

why would anyone want to live in Milton Keynes? (I used to)

 

[cuccir]

Why live in London and commute to Milton Keynes/Reading when it would be cheaper to live in either place compared to London?

Because you only live once and London is the place where so much more happens?

Don't get me wrong, I've never lived in London and I don't see it being likely that I would, but you really can't see the attraction of living at the heart of things? In the city with the most concerts, the most museums, the most festivals, the most diverse range of restaurants etc? I know it's possible to experience these things living elsewhere, but I can certainly see why you'd chose to live there, even before we get onto particular individuals' situations (there must be many people who live in London with both partners working in different locations outside of it eg one works in Milton Keynes, the other Brighton...)

 

[maniacmartin]

An awful lot also take taxis from outside the station, which is obviously going to be very expensive compared to the bus (workers can get a pretty cheap season ticket to use buses to/from the business park) so I have to assume some people are on rather good salaries, or able to claim the travel on expenses or something.

I used to work at Ocado head office in the business park. They had a policy where they would reimburse all taxi fares to and from the station every day on expenses for all head office employees, as long as you shared taxis and used every seat if possible (ie don't take a taxi each). This was a perk to try and persuade Londoners to work in Hatfield, where the trains back never run on time. It does make a difference too - I know that some of my ex-colleagues may not have worked there if they had to faff around with a bus every day on top of their tube and train travel.

However, they would not reimburse bus receipts. Given the price of bus prices nowadays, 7 people sharing a people-carrier taxi is probably cheaper anyway, and of course more convenient.

I believe EE have a similar policy for their senior employees at least.

 

[transmanche]

I used to work at Ocado head office in the business park. They had a policy where they would reimburse all taxi fares to and from the station every day on expenses for all head office employees, as long as you shared taxis and used every seat if possible (ie don't take a taxi each).

Many moons ago I used to work at Cellnet (now O2) in Slough - they had two sites; one right next to the station and one along the Bath Road. As they had relocated a number of staff from a building by the Elephant & Castle in London, so they provided a free bus shuttle between the station and the Bath Road site.

 

[northwichcat]

You'd be surprised how busy some trains are in the 'contra-peak' direction.

About ten years ago, I commuted from north London to Wimbledon: despite regular 8-car trains, I often had to stand from Vauxhall to Wimbledon. I've also done regular batches of a week's commuting from North London to Winnersh Triangle: some trains from Paddington to Reading are very busy in the morning peak. And as noted by maniacmartin most days he wouldn't be able to get a seat on a Finsbury Park to Hatfield commute.

And you'll notice that many of those commutes involve travelling into central London and then out again the other side - so you get all the pitfalls of commuting into London before you even start your main journey!

I'm not surprised. Rail timetables and diagramming seems to allow for everyone travelling in the direction of a major city in the morning peak and away from it in the evening peak, so the people travelling counter peak flow don't get the enhanced frequency or capacity.

While it's not in the London area the busiest service on my local line is actually in the morning peak going away from the largest place on the line and the second busiest is a mid afternoon train going towards the largest place on the line. The factors that come in to play here are the school/college traffic and one of the main UK banks employing thousands of people at a semi-rural site.

I've noticed at stations like London Bridge which direction you can enter the platforms from is restricted in the morning peak to allow for most people leaving the station, which may mean a long walk to get to the platforms for some people starting their journeys from London terminus'

 

[LexyBoy]

Definitely the better way around IMO. I used to commute from Herne Hill to Oxford and later Didcot. I would always get a seat, even on the train into Victoria/Farringdon as it was too early for the main rush, and have a relaxing (if way too long journey).

Best of all, I felt my Oxford-Z1-6 Travelcard was great value for money as I got all my leisure travel in the evenings/weekends for free, whereas a commuter coming into London wouldn’t make much use of the Travelcard beyond a couple of Tubes each day.

Downside of course is that you live in London, but I gather some don't mind that...

 

[IanD]

why would anyone want to live in Milton Keynes? (I used to)

So they don't have to live in Leighton Buzzard

Because you only live once and London is the place where so much more happens?

I've got nothing against living in London, spend most of my weekends there but during the week I live in Newport Pagnell as it is much more relaxing and I work in Milton Keynes and wouldn't want to spend so much time commuting.

 

[sheff1]

Why live in London and commute to Milton Keynes/Reading when it would be cheaper to live in either place compared to London?

When I worked in Reading lots of people on the site commuted from London. If they were fortunate enough to have purchased/inherited a decent property they could afford there it seems perfectly sensible to do this rather than move to a town with very limited social/entertainment opportunities available for the evenings/weekends

 

[Deerfold]

Many moons ago I used to work at Cellnet (now O2) in Slough - they had two sites; one right next to the station and one along the Bath Road. As they had relocated a number of staff from a building by the Elephant & Castle in London, so they provided a free bus shuttle between the station and the Bath Road site.

I've a recent ex-colleague doing some commuting for them - he tells me this shuttle bus still exists.

 

[jamesontheroad]

I have a number of colleagues who "reverse commute" from London to my place of work in Norwich. Unlike those going in the opposite direction, they are able to take advantage of plenty of cheap £8 Advance fares

 

[westv]

I suppose one problem with going out of London is that you are travelling from a high house price area to a potentially lower wage area.

 

[dvboy]

I have a number of friends who live in Birmingham pretty central but commute outwards, because of the attractiveness of living in the city centre. I can imagine it's the same for those living in London.

 

[Cherry_Picker]

Going back to the original point, I'm often curious as to how many of the people leaving London on trains in the AM peak are Londoners heading out of the capital and how many of them are people from outside who were just crossing. If you are going from, say Milton Keynes to Woking and you have to be there by 9am then you are going to be leaving Waterloo in the morning peak.

 

[northwichcat]

why would anyone want to live in Milton Keynes? (I used to)

Maybe someone who likes roundabouts a lot?