People who prefer the restricted things

[Andrew S]

What I'm worried about is a social split. As I've mentioned on another thread, imagine eating smelly food on a train. that's not illegal but could be annoying to some people.

Now take masks, not wearing one would not be illegal, but could be seen as anti-social behaviour.

Both things happen regularly on trains in my locality. I don't think anyone really cares to much about either.

 

[brad465]

On a related note, why do some people feel the need to post their vaccine status on social media? Seeing quite a few Facebook profile pictures with an “I’m fully vaccinated” backdrop. It this people essentially saying “you can meet up with me, I’m clean”, or perhaps “aren’t I special, I’ve had the vaccine, not a granny killer”? I find it a very odd thing to do.

While I agree with you on those grounds, my main grievance with this behaviour is that it follows the wider issue of social media pressure and causing some to feel inferior to their peers' popularity, which is largely why social media has played a role in mental health problems and even some suicides. If one's peers really want people to be vaccinated but someone is hesitant, the hesitant person could just lie and say they've had (although passports might change that, but that's another story).

I'm thinking when my time comes around to get the vaccine, I'll say I've had it on social media but at the same time give acknowledgement/a shout out of support to those who can't and feel down/under pressure by everyone else showing it off, reminding them of social media's dark sides. Whether it will convince anyone to be empathic towards other people's suffering/problems surrounding all this is another matter.

 

[Busaholic]

I agree with this.

I also quite liked that some places made more of an effort to provide nice outdoor seating last summer. When we get good weather, dining outdoors is pleasant and reminds me of being on holiday. There was one area where the council closed the road during the evenings so venues could put tables in the street. All very enjoyable but the English weather, and inconvenience caused by closing roads when travel is back at normal levels mean these are unlikely to continue.

Overall though the negatives of the current situation far outweigh these small positives. Over the winter I missed being able to wander round to the pub in an evening for a pint by their cosy fire.

With absolutely no warning other than a hand-delivered letter to affected residents last Thursday morning, my street was due to be closed off to vehicles every Thursday to Sunday afternoon from 5 p.m. to 11 p.m. with immediate effect until the end of September. This to allow two restaurants, two pubs and one hotel with bar to place tables in the road, as was done last year for a shorter period. In practice, only one restaurant and one pub regularly took advantage of this easement, and in the case of the pub it was more a case of the regulars gathering outside, standing close together, with drinks in hand! S*d's Law took effect on Thursday, of course, and any tables placed outside would have ended up on their sides further down the road within minutes, probably with their customers, if any sado-masochists presented themselves, and the initial four days will end tonight with no road closure so far due to the Cornish weather, specifically the wind which howls outside as I type these words!

 

[Drogba11CFC]

Locktivist refers to people who want to impose restrictions like masks on other people.

People like Colin Lockdown and Zerocovidzoe on twitter who seem to take great pleasure in riding roughshod over people's mental health.

 

[Purple Orange]

People like Colin Lockdown and Zerocovidzoe on twitter who seem to take great pleasure in riding roughshod over people's mental health.

These are a few people. No point in focussing too much on them. It’s hardly like the narrative is that the public want greater restrictions. In fact the only significant noise is coming from the hard right of the Tory party and the former Ukippers who have the patience of toddlers. Right now we can meet and gather with friends and family, stop over, go out to pubs & restaurants - were getting our lives back. And being of the opinion that we should continue at the pace of easing restrictions is not a sign of ignoring mental health issues either.

 

[J-2739]

People like Colin Lockdown and Zerocovidzoe on twitter who seem to take great pleasure in riding roughshod over people's mental health.

Are those accounts actually legitimate? How is somebody supposed to take tagines like those seriously? I'd just ignore them really.

 

[nlogax]

Are those accounts actually legitimate? How is somebody supposed to take tagines like those seriously? I'd just ignore them really.

Yes. I've said this before. One of those accounts is properly out to wind people up. If people ignore it then it won't wind them up. Afraid to say it's really that simple.

 

[bramling]

Yes. I've said this before. One of those accounts is properly out to wind people up. If people ignore it then it won't wind them up. Afraid to say it's really that simple.

The trouble is that people on here are quite able to ignore, having taken the trouble to furnish themselves with accurate information and statistics. Karen from Facebook goes and reads something alarmist, and next thing an asthmatic is being shrieked at in Waitrose, or whatever.

The government should have got a handle on all this months ago.

 

[nlogax]

Karen from Facebook goes and reads something alarmist, and next thing an asthmatic is being shrieked at in Waitrose, or whatever.

We can't help Karen or Kev from Facebook and we all know that sort of highly-strung reactive BS is above our collective pay grade. The least we can do is look after our own sanity by ignoring this stuff.

 

[L401CJF]

For me personally the last year hasn't been any different from my point of view.

I'm not a sociable person, I very rarely go to a pub or restaurant, I don't go out clubbing and I very rarely meet with any groups bigger than say 4 (with exception of family).

Throughout the first lockdown (and the whole pandemic) I just carried on as normal. I've not been on furlough and carried on working, driving buses, coming into contact with the public and I'm still alive, not had any symptoms, never taken a test etc.

I've still been able to continue my hobby working on my brothers preserved buses for the most part, and I even had a good excuse for not visiting the Mrs family!

I'll be glad when it's all over and everything is back to normal as I'm sick to death of the doom and gloomers who seem to think every single person will die if people don't wear masks the second they step foot out of their front door. I'll be glad to see public transport busy again (although it certainly is much busier now around my area).

The only thing I did change during the first lockdown was that I switched from my car to the train to get to work. The government said don't use public transport unless absolutely necessary etc. As a "key worker" I decided it was a pretty good excuse to get some 507/8 mileage in on a daily basis. To make it even better, I had a whole 6 car unit to myself the majority of the time and didn't come into contact with a single person so it was a win win! Now the trains are busy again I have switched back to my car, not because I'm scared of covid, but because I don't like people!

Edit: As I've said elsewhere, I havnt watched, read, or listened to any news for the last 12 months. I havnt got a clue what's happening in the world and from where I'm standing I am not seeing any doom and gloom. It's amazing what a positive effect cutting out the negative media from my life has had, and would really recommend it to anybody.

 

[Philip Elliott]

These are a few people. No point in focussing too much on them. It’s hardly like the narrative is that the public want greater restrictions. In fact the only significant noise is coming from the hard right of the Tory party and the former Ukippers who have the patience of toddlers. Right now we can meet and gather with friends and family, stop over, go out to pubs & restaurants - were getting our lives back. And being of the opinion that we should continue at the pace of easing restrictions is not a sign of ignoring mental health issues either.

Isn't it funny you lot never consider the mental health impact of catching the disease and the fear of catching it? Aside from the fear of oneself catching it or one's loved ones getting it, driving huge levels of anxiety (now thankfully much reduced due to the vaccine rollout), it has long been known pandemics cause large increase on mental illness....

https://www.healthline.com/health-n...ly-to-develop-depression-anxiety-and-dementia

• Nearly 20 percent of COVID-19 patients developed a mental health issue — like depression, anxiety, or dementia — within 3 months of diagnosis, according to a new study.
• Researchers evaluated the health records of 69 million people in the United States, which included over 62,000 people diagnosed with COVID-19.
• Doctors have long suspected that COVID-19 was linked to higher rates of mental health problems.

A new study from the United Kingdom found that people who were sick with COVID-19 had a significant chance of developing a psychiatric disorder after recovering.

According to the reportTrusted Source published in The Lancet on November 9, 18 percent of COVID-19 patients developed a mental health issue — like depression, anxiety, or dementia — within 3 months of diagnosis. Their risk was doubled compared to people who didn’t have COVID-19.

Doctors have suspected that COVID-19 was linked to higher rates of mental health problems.

A recent surveyTrusted Source from Ecuador has also shown that people diagnosed with COVID-19 commonly experience anxiety, insomnia, depression, and post-traumatic stress disorder.

Though researchers are still working to understand exactly how the new coronavirus impacts not just the mind but brain function, this new research helps to further establish the link.

“COVID-19 can result in psychological issues due to both pandemic stress and the physical effects of the disease,” says Brittany LeMonda, PhD, a senior neuropsychologist at Lenox Hill Hospital in New York City.

People here keep warning of a looming mental health epidemic yet their preferred handling of the pandemic is a surefire way of causing it.

It's also funny how suicides are always assumed to be due to restrictions, not due to the usual factors or from directly from catching covid...

https://www.digi24.ro/stiri/actuali...rua=602fa92bc2e9446d58265b88d0c0d6bf&__grrn=1

Este al doilea pacient cu COVID-19 internat în spital care se sinucide. În luna mai, un alt bărbat pozitiv, aflat în tratament în Secţia de Boli Infecţioase din Spitalul Clinic Judeţean din Sibiu, s-a spânzurat în baia salonului.

The story is about two men who committed suicide in the same hospital, both were covid patients - one threw himself out a window and the other hanged himself. There have been a number of other occurrences of covid patients throwing themselves off balconies in Romania. it is known that covid can cause delirium and there is the suspicion that they are not all suicides but maybe accidental. Some of the individuals have a history of mental illness.

The evidence is clear - avoid infection as much as possible.

 

[yorksrob]

Isn't it funny how the plague enthusiasts never considers the mental health impact of catching the disease and the fear of catching it? Aside from the fear of oneself catching it or one's loved ones getting it, driving huge levels of anxiety (now thankfully much reduced due to the vaccine rollout), it has long been known pandemics cause large increase on mental illness....

https://www.healthline.com/health-n...ly-to-develop-depression-anxiety-and-dementia



People here keep warning of a looming mental health epidemic yet their preferred handling of the pandemic is a surefire way of causing it.

It's also funny how suicides are always assumed to be due to restrictions, not due to the usual factors or from directly from catching covid...

https://www.digi24.ro/stiri/actuali...rua=602fa92bc2e9446d58265b88d0c0d6bf&__grrn=1



The story is about two men who committed suicide in the same hospital, both were covid patients - one threw himself out a window and the other hanged himself. There have been a number of other occurrences of covid patients throwing themselves off balconies in Romania. it is known that covid can cause delirium and there is the suspicion that they are not all suicides but maybe accidental. Some of the individuals have a history of mental illness.

The evidence is clear - avoid infection as much as possible.

No one wants infection.

We've all been here the last year, making decisions and judgements on how best/whether to meet vulnerable relatives etc.

If you feel that society is being too lax, be our guest and stay indoors forever more. Don't expect the rest of us to submit to the lockdown obsessed lunatic fringe.

 

[Dent]

Isn't it funny how the plague enthusiasts never considers the mental health impact of catching the disease and the fear of catching it?

Who has really declared themselves to be a "plague enthusiast"? This sounds like yet another absurd strawman from someone who would rather childishly insult people than engage constructively in intelligent conversation.

 

[WelshBluebird]

Who has really declared themselves to be a "plague enthusiast"? This sounds like yet another absurd strawman from someone who would rather childishly insult people than engage constructively in intelligent conversation.

Could the same not be said about people who throw around the phrases "lockdown enthusiast" (often on here abbreviated to "locktavist") etc etc?
Not that either is good, but its clear one is generally accepted by people here and the other isn't.

 

[py_megapixel]

Could the same not be said about people who throw around the phrases "lockdown enthusiast" (often on here abbreviated to "locktavist") etc etc?

Yes it could.

There are good points on both sides, but they are constantly watered down by pathetic name-calling.

 

[Farang]

Isn't it funny how the plague enthusiasts never considers the mental health impact of catching the disease and the fear of catching it? Aside from the fear of oneself catching it or one's loved ones getting it, driving huge levels of anxiety (now thankfully much reduced due to the vaccine rollout), it has long been known pandemics cause large increase on mental illness....

https://www.healthline.com/health-n...ly-to-develop-depression-anxiety-and-dementia



People here keep warning of a looming mental health epidemic yet their preferred handling of the pandemic is a surefire way of causing it.

It's also funny how suicides are always assumed to be due to restrictions, not due to the usual factors or from directly from catching covid...

https://www.digi24.ro/stiri/actuali...rua=602fa92bc2e9446d58265b88d0c0d6bf&__grrn=1



The story is about two men who committed suicide in the same hospital, both were covid patients - one threw himself out a window and the other hanged himself. There have been a number of other occurrences of covid patients throwing themselves off balconies in Romania. it is known that covid can cause delirium and there is the suspicion that they are not all suicides but maybe accidental. Some of the individuals have a history of mental illness.

The evidence is clear - avoid infection as much as possible.

Where is the like button?

 

[Dent]

Could the same not be said about people who throw around the phrases "lockdown enthusiast" (often on here abbreviated to "locktavist") etc etc?
Not that either is good, but its clear one is generally accepted by people here and the other isn't.

Not really the same since some people have declared that they wish for more restrictions, yet none have said that wish for a plague.

 

[takno]

Isn't it funny how the plague enthusiasts never considers the mental health impact of catching the disease and the fear of catching it? Aside from the fear of oneself catching it or one's loved ones getting it, driving huge levels of anxiety (now thankfully much reduced due to the vaccine rollout), it has long been known pandemics cause large increase on mental illness....

A lot of the very-visible fear of catching it is completely misplaced. In order to get wider support for the hugely damaging and pointless restrictions, the government and much of the media have basically been conducting a campaign of psychological warfare against the population. You would think from most of the messaging that everybody who gets the disease becomes seriously ill, and that deaths are at 10 times what they are.

I'm sure that terror has led to suicides, but I'm unclear why you want to place it at the door of the people who have consistently oppposed it.

 

[Philip Elliott]

Who has really declared themselves to be a "plague enthusiast"? This sounds like yet another absurd strawman from someone who would rather childishly insult people than engage constructively in intelligent conversation.

Comments like saying ‘[XYZ country] hasn’t built up enough immunity’ means not enough people have got infected for their liking. Or the regular attacks on Australia’s and New Zealand‘s strategies and taking great delight when an outbreak occurs. Suggestions that younger people needn’t get the vaccine and should just take their chances..

 

[takno]

Comments like saying ‘[XYZ country] hasn’t built up enough immunity’ means not enough people have got infected for their liking. Or the regular attacks on Australia’s and New Zealand‘s strategies and taking great delight when an outbreak occurs. Suggestions that younger people needn’t get the vaccine and should just take their chances..

Young people needn't get the vaccine, and given the tremendous odds in their favour there is no downside at all to them taking their chances. I've certainly got no objection at all to them being offered the vaccine, but it's essentially useless from the point of view of their own health, and if they choose not to take it I'm strongly opposed to it being held against them.

That doesn't mean I'm a "plague enthusiast" for a couple of reasons. Firstly, this is very much not a plague, and secondly, I'd rather nobody had it at all. Being opposed to taking dangerous extreme and ultimately useless actions in response to a pandemic doesn't make you pro-pandemic

 

[Dent]

Comments like saying ‘[XYZ country] hasn’t built up enough immunity’ means not enough people have got infected for their liking.

Nothing in those comments indicates anyone liking people getting infected. This is not the same thing as realising that developing a level of immunity is important in order to reach endemic equilibrium.

Or the regular attacks on Australia’s and New Zealand‘s strategies and taking great delight when an outbreak occurs.

Acknowledging that Australis and New Zealand lack a viable exit plan, which their repeated outbreaks illustrate, is in no way "taking delight" in anyone becoming infected.

Suggestions that younger people needn’t get the vaccine and should just take their chances..

Acknowledging that the risk to young, healthy people is extremely low and hence vaccination of these people is not really necessary is not in any way enthusiasm for anyone getting ill.

To summarise, none of the statements actually mean what they claim, so I stand by my assessment that "plague enthusiasts" is nothing but a silly strawman you have invented in a childish attempt to stifle reasoned discussion. If you can demonstrate anyone actually declaring that they are enthusiastic towards people getting a plague, as opposed to you wilfully misrepresenting something entirely different they have said, then I will reconsider that assessment.

 

[Philip Elliott]

Young people needn't get the vaccine, and given the tremendous odds in their favour there is no downside at all to them taking their chances. I've certainly got no objection at all to them being offered the vaccine, but it's essentially useless from the point of view of their own health, and if they choose not to take it I'm strongly opposed to it being held against them.

That doesn't mean I'm a "plague enthusiast" for a couple of reasons. Firstly, this is very much not a plague, and secondly, I'd rather nobody had it at all. Being opposed to taking dangerous extreme and ultimately useless actions in response to a pandemic doesn't make you pro-pandemic

“No downsides at all”? Which part of 18% of people who have covid develop a mental illness do you not get? Plus all the physiological issues of Long Covid.

 

[takno]

“No downsides at all”? Which part of 18% of people who have covid develop a mental illness do you not get? Plus all the physiological issues of Long Covid.

That's pretty desperate stuff. I know that figure was bandied about in the media, but any kind of detailed reading made it clear that the supporting evidence was hopeless, mostly related to people who'd been ill enough to be in hospital, and didn't control for the massive general increase in poor mental health.

Long Covid isn't a complete fiction, but it's a pretty common reaction to viruses which has been blown completely out of proportion. As with the mental illness headline, the vast majority of people reporting Long Covid symptoms are actually reporting symptoms consistent with being locked down indoors, living depressing empty lives with limited fresh air, interaction and exercise.

 

[Philip Elliott]

That's pretty desperate stuff. I know that figure was bandied about in the media, but any kind of detailed reading made it clear that the supporting evidence was hopeless, mostly related to people who'd been ill enough to be in hospital, and didn't control for the massive general increase in poor mental health.

Long Covid isn't a complete fiction, but it's a pretty common reaction to viruses which has been blown completely out of proportion. As with the mental illness headline, the vast majority of people reporting Long Covid symptoms are actually reporting symptoms consistent with being locked down indoors, living depressing empty lives with limited fresh air, interaction and exercise.

For people who were hospitalised, the rate of neurological conditions is 82%! Being stuck indoors causes kidney failure, strokes, liver damage, heart palpatations, extreme fatigue, brain fog, diabetes? The first lockdown saw a great increase in people excercising - particularly walking.

Nothing in those comments indicates anyone liking people getting infected. This is not the same thing as realising that developing a level of immunity is important in order to reach endemic equilibrium.



Acknowledging that Australis and New Zealand lack a viable exit plan, which their repeated outbreaks illustrate, is in no way "taking delight" in anyone becoming infected.



Acknowledging that the risk to young, healthy people is extremely low and hence vaccination of these people is not really necessary is not in any way enthusiasm for anyone getting ill.

To summarise, none of the statements actually mean what they claim, so I stand by my assessment that "plague enthusiasts" is nothing but a silly strawman you have invented in a childish attempt to stifle reasoned discussion. If you can demonstrate anyone actually declaring that they are enthusiastic towards people getting a plague, as opposed to you wilfully misrepresenting something entirely different they have said, then I will reconsider that assessment.

The term means people who have no interest in stopping other people getting infected.

This thread shows how many people on here are happy for the virus to work through the population: https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...hat-would-you-do-if-you-were-in-power.207541/

This post in particular shows a complete lack of regard for others’ welfare:
https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...u-do-if-you-were-in-power.207541/post-4712912

 

[Yew]

You seem to have forgotten that 'welfare' encompasses more than the Coronavirus.

 

[kristiang85]

For people who were hospitalised, the rate of neurological conditions is 82%! Being stuck indoors causes kidney failure, strokes, liver damage, heart palpatations, extreme fatigue, brain fog, diabetes? The first lockdown saw a great increase in people excercising - particularly walking.

What about the 25% of young people who have developed mental health issues due to isolation, joblessness, distance from loved ones, and general malaise caused by lockdowns? And I think even that statistic is under estimated, and of course its repeated across all age groups to an extent. I look forward to Zoe releasing their mental health data in June, as I doubt it will be pretty reading for those who support constant lockdowns.

Most people who get ill seriously enough to be in hospital will have some psychological after effects. Hospitals are not pleasant places. And even those not hospitalised with COVID will suffer some form of post viral fatigue syndrome, but indeed the symptoms of this match the issues many report from suffering months of being cooped up in lockdown.

As for saying lockdowns caused people to be healthier, this was not the case for the vast majority - gyms were shut, group sports cancelled, and 'being indoors' was imposed on many, given the government's and media's fear campaign.

 

[Dent]

The term means people who have no interest in stopping other people getting infected

Logically "plague enthusiasts" means those with an enthusiasm towards a plague. So after it was pointed out that your claim had no basis in reality, and your attempts to justify it were all gross misrepresentations, you are now attempting to redefine the English language. As well as having no relation to your original claim of "plague enthusiasts", "people who have no interest in stopping other people getting infected" is still a wilful misrepresentation.

This thread shows how many people on here are happy for the virus to work through the population: https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...hat-would-you-do-if-you-were-in-power.207541/

No it doesn't. Realising that it has to run its course in order to reach an end is not the same as being happy for it to work through the population.

This post in particular shows a complete lack of regard for others’ welfare:
https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...u-do-if-you-were-in-power.207541/post-4712912

Again, no it doesn't. You are making yet another wilful misrepresentation.

 

[Philip Elliott]

Logically "plague enthusiasts" means those with an enthusiasm towards a plague. So after it was pointed out that your claim had no basis in reality, and your attempts to justify it were all gross misrepresentations, you are now attempting to redefine the English language. As well as having no relation to your original claim of "plague enthusiasts", "people who have no interest in stopping other people getting infected" is still a wilful misrepresentation.



No it doesn't. Realising that it has to run its course in order to reach an end is not the same as being happy for it to work through the population.



Again, no it doesn't. You are making yet another wilful misrepresentation.

It was not a claim, it was a friggin’ insult - now how you about you actually debate the actual point of the post regarding the devastating effects of catching covid? You are the disingenuous one, playing distraction tactics. I’ve edited the original post to remove the insult.

‘To be happy’ about something can be used to mean to be ‘okay’ / satisfied / do not object about something happening and it is not the case that it has to run its course.

 

[yorksrob]

It was not a claim, it was a friggin’ insult

Right back at you fella.

 

[Yew]

It was not a claim, it was a friggin’ insult

Ah, so we've departed the platform of rational debate, and crossed into onto the great virtriolic abuse mainline; I presume the next stop is ad-homenim central?