Possible disruption 19th September?

[dk1]

Got to feel for Great Western control & Duty Traincrew managers at times like this. Must be a nightmare anyway let alone when the plan keeps changing at short notice.

 

[Essexman]

Nothing running after 10pm from Paddington so I assume the sleeper will start at Reading.
I'm not sure whether I really want to travel to Reading and board very late. I could travel the next day but am not sure if GWR would allow me to refund the sleeper ticket.

'Network Rail engineers will undertake further repair work overnight, meaning that services in and out of London Paddington will finish before 22:00.'

 

[dk1]

This is a very "Railway Bubble" attitude, to sneer at passengers who "blindly" turn up when the timetable says.

Its so easy to check nowadays so why wouldn’t you? If I walk down to my local station & the trains cancelled then I deserve a good kick up the backside for not looking before leaving the house.

 

[zero]

This is a very "Railway Bubble" attitude, to sneer at passengers who "blindly" turn up when the timetable says.

I don't need to check the road condition before any car journey. If I have a plane ticket I just go to the airport when it says.

You don't need to, but you should.

I've missed events I was driving to because I didn't check that there had been a crash. I could have made it if I had started driving somewhat earlier.

I've avoided needing to rush to the airport when I checked and saw there was no way my flight was going to be on time (as the incoming plane was late) - in the same way that checking RTT has allowed me to stroll slowly towards a station instead of running, when a train is definitely going to arrive X minutes late

 

[nickswift99]

Its so easy to check nowadays so why wouldn’t you? If I walk down to my local station & the trains cancelled then I deserve a good kick up the backside for not looking before leaving the house.

As other posters have pointed out, the reliability of the information is so poor that often it is useless.

in addition, if you want to claim delay repay and are using a smartcard product you may need to cross a barrier to prove that you have been delayed so as to avoid any accusation of fraud.

Or you could just get in your car because at least the delay information provided by Google/Apple etc is reasonably reliable, you're not stuck waiting on a cold platform for hours and, for the most part, you are in control of delays on your journey, rather than relying on organisations who just want you to "check before your depart", rather than provide a robust and resilient railway that the tax payer and passenger have paid for.

 

[Pakenhamtrain]

Totally agree with Alex, above.

There's nothing inherently wrong with headspans as such; after all, they are widely used in other systems in Europe. Cheaper in the short term to erect and less obtrusive visually.
It'd be interesting to see, though, if any studies have been undertaken as to their resilience vs more solid structures. My gut feeling is they are less resilient as they increase the number of variables in the system and are more complex to set up correctly.

I think the general trend is to go away from multi track structures.

Certainly down here from the mid 90s' the preference is each track gets it's own single cantilever. We only use portal structures or multi track cantilevers where needs must.

 

[dk1]

Or you could just get in your car because at least the delay information provided by Google/Apple etc is reasonably reliable, you're not stuck waiting on a cold platform for hours and, for the most part, you are in control of delays on your journey, rather than relying on organisations who just want you to "check before your depart", rather than provide a robust and resilient railway that the tax payer and passenger have paid for.

With just the thought of a long car journey (or any car journey come to that) you’ve put me off already. Id just not bother.

 

[ComUtoR]

I don't need to check the road condition before any car journey.

No you don't but it is prudent to make some simple checks to ensure any time dependent journeys can be completed. These may include using, and not limited to :

Travel websites
Travel news on the radio
Traffic announcements on the car radio (via the TA function)
Waze
Google Maps
Other SatNav or journey software / App
Prior warning signage (road work notices)
Motorway cameras

If I have a plane ticket I just go to the airport when it says.

There are various flight checking services and the last time I booked a flight the app was giving me regular updates. Almost everyone I know who takes a flight somewhere will check the flight status as one of the last things they do before leaving the house.

In this modern world, we have the tools to help us. It would be prudent to use them.

Or you could just get in your car because at least the delay information provided by Google/Apple etc is reasonably reliable, you're not stuck waiting on a cold platform for hours and, for the most part, you are in control of delays on your journey, rather than relying on organisations who just want you to "check before your depart", rather than provide a robust and resilient railway that the tax payer and passenger have paid for.

I guess you have never been stuck on a motorway before.

 

[Horizon22]

You are correct in your last para. I arrived at Paddington at 10.10 today (having exhausted all sources on my smartphone, which did show some optimism for my 11.04 departure) and it was fairly quiet. That meant the queue at the enquiries desk was fairly short. But I still wish I'd headed straight to Waterloo, which I would have done if those online sources didn't show my train as still running.

I forgot at which time it changed from “until 1200” to “until end of the day.

This is a very "Railway Bubble" attitude, to sneer at passengers who "blindly" turn up when the timetable says.

I don't need to check the road condition before any car journey. If I have a plane ticket I just go to the airport when it says. But somehow on the railway I have to keep checking beforehand, even though where there are issues one finds that:

a) It's described as a "Good Service" regardless (London Underground).
b) It's described as "All services are subject to delays and/or cancellation" (Railway).

Useless. There's also the issue that my journeys to the London departure termini are typically by Underground, out of range of a mobile phone signal.

It’s not sneering at all. Many people do and have no issues with it. Nor do I have an issue with it. It’s just they for those that do - the check before you travel is a little nudge to state that things aren’t running as they should be.

I would hope you did check the road condition before you travel for poor weather or any traffic alerts. But then people are different - some people plan and check everything regardless, some never and everything in between. As for your plane comment my experiences have generally been worse. Everything seems fine at the terminal up until it isn’t. Normally some late boarding at the gate even though everything is running scheduled and then you leave an hour late, sometimes with not even a note accordingly until the pilot / first officer note it.

 

[fandroid]

Beginning to get some semblance of normality at Reading now. However my Plymouth train was too packed to board

 

[htafc]

Beginning to get some semblance of normality at Reading now. However my Plymouth train was too packed to board

Was it this 9-car train? https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:W43502/2022-09-20/detailed#allox_id=0
If so that's a lot of people on it...

 

[43096]

Forget that last comment. RTT shows it as cancelled. It does look as if the Elizabeth Line is now running out of Reading

The less said about GWR’s Didcot-Paddington service the better, though. Not much effort going in to running trains. Very similar, in fact, to the aftermath of the storm earlier in the year, when TfL ran a service the following morning but GWR thought they’d have a lie-in and not get up til lunchtime.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

NRE is saying that despite repairs overnight, more extensive damage has been found with more repairs being planned from 2200 tonight.
EL and HX services are running to Heathrow (EL only to Central) to a reduced timetable and with delays.
Presumably the relief lines are operational on electric but not the mains.

While GW ticket acceptance on SW, XC and CH has been arranged, Avanti is not now on the acceptance list.

 

[Benjwri]

As for your plane comment my experiences have generally been worse. Everything seems fine at the terminal up until it isn’t. Normally some late boarding at the gate even though everything is running scheduled and then you leave an hour late, sometimes with not even a note accordingly until the pilot / first officer note it.

Although the difference between the railway and a plane is the aviation industry has a legal duty to look after you and get you to your destination, so once you turn up you know you will get there or be cared for. The care might not be luxury but it’s something.

No such duty exists for rail. They can, and have done so to me, abandon you part way through your journey with no alternative travel provided, and no way to get anywhere in the middle of the night.

 

[800001]

Although the difference between the railway and a plane is the aviation industry has a legal duty to look after you and get you to your destination, so once you turn up you know you will get there or be cared for. The care might not be luxury but it’s something.

No such duty exists for rail. They can, and have done so to me, abandon you part way through your journey with no alternative travel provided, and no way to get anywhere in the middle of the night.

If they have abandoned you, then the railway has failed you, as they do have a duty to get you to your destination by what ever means, or If no inward transport available, then accommodation.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Although the difference between the railway and a plane is the aviation industry has a legal duty to look after you and get you to your destination, so once you turn up you know you will get there or be cared for. The care might not be luxury but it’s something.

No such duty exists for rail. They can, and have done so to me, abandon you part way through your journey with no alternative travel provided, and no way to get anywhere in the middle of the night.

The Shapps DfT was known to be working on a harmonisation of delay compensation rules between modes.
This was only for domestic travel, as international is subject to other rules (eg EU 261).
It's possible that the rail rules might improve, but also that the (domestic) air rules might deteriorate (eg be limited to the value of the ticket).
There's also the issue of travel insurance for disruption, which is common with air travel but largely unknown for rail.

 

[43066]

I was once given a lift from Exeter to Torquay by a member of the sleeper staff (on his way to Paignton) when it terminated at Exeter due to very rough seas at Dawlish.

It’s great people did/do good turns like that! Sadly a lot harder in this day and age when you wouldn’t know who you’re letting into your car, and of course the risk of accusations being made etc. + the risk your insurance wouldn’t pay out should you have an accident with the passenger in the car. I have to say I think offering lifts to passengers is “brave” to say the least, and TOCs would certainly frown on it (if not outright forbid it).

This is a very "Railway Bubble" attitude, to sneer at passengers who "blindly" turn up when the timetable says.

It’s a very typical attitude of yours to look for sneering where there is none!

I don't need to check the road condition before any car journey. If I have a plane ticket I just go to the airport when it says. But somehow on the railway I have to keep checking beforehand, even though where there are issues one finds that:

a) It's described as a "Good Service" regardless (London Underground).
b) It's described as "All services are subject to delays and/or cancellation" (Railway).

Useless. There's also the issue that my journeys to the London departure termini are typically by Underground, out of range of a mobile phone signal.

Because there are never traffic jams and flights are never delayed/cancelled….

 

[Benjwri]

If they have abandoned you, then the railway has failed you, as they do have a duty to get you to your destination by what ever means, or If no inward transport available, then accommodation.

There is no actual regulation that says this. Up until 2015 when the Conditions of Carriage were changed it was actually the exact opposite.
All that protects you now is your consumer rights, which are very vague and it hasn’t been legally tested, as far as I know, whether they would have to pay out.

In contrast the aviation industry have very clearly set out laws on their obligations.

 

[Horizon22]

There is no actual regulation that says this. Up until 2015 when the Conditions of Carriage were changed it was actually the exact opposite.
All that protects you now is your consumer rights, which are very vague and it hasn’t been legally tested, as far as I know, whether they would have to pay out.

In contrast the aviation industry have very clearly set out laws on their obligations.

This is all moot seeing as people weren’t stranded in this incident with well advertised alternatives available, but here’s a direct extract from GWR’s passenger charter:

If the train you’re on is delayed during your trip, we’ll get you to the station you’re going to if we can – by bus or taxi if we need to. If we can’t get you to that station, we’ll take you back to the station that will work best for you.

If we can’t do either of those things, we’ll find you somewhere to stay for the night, so you can continue your journey the next day

We will aim to make the bus/taxi/hotel arrangements for you at our cost. If we do not make those arrangements for you, and you make them yourself then we will pay your reasonable and proportionate costs for:

• Alternative travel
• A hotel where this is a reasonable step for you to take as an alternative to completing your journey

You may still choose to make more expensive arrangements at your own cost

We want to make claiming compensation for a delayed journey as easy as we can. Where possible, our team will let you know when you’re entitled to it and will offer advice on how to make a claim.

There is also mention of the Consumer Rights Act 2015 later on in the same document.

 

[angled]

I was caught up in this disruption today - supposed to be travelling into Paddington on a pre-booked super off peak ticket this morning. National Rail are saying GWR tickets for today will be accepted tomorrow, which is something. I realise what follows must be a very common question and there is probably a standard answer, but I can't find it. The question is: will there be any restrictions on which (GWR) services I can use my ticket on tomorrow to get to London? Specifically: can I use a peak train if it's the only way to make my journey work?

 

[GordonT]

I was caught up in this disruption today - supposed to be travelling into Paddington on a pre-booked super off peak ticket this morning. National Rail are saying GWR tickets for today will be accepted tomorrow, which is something. I realise what follows must be a very common question and there is probably a standard answer, but I can't find it. The question is: will there be any restrictions on which (GWR) services I can use my ticket on tomorrow to get to London? Specifically: can I use a peak train if it's the only way to make my journey work?

Regardless of what the "official" line on this may be I'd be astonished if you were challenged under the circs.

 

[Sorcerer]

Shockingly on my journey I experienced minimal disruption. My Avanti service left on time from Liverpool and arrived into London on time, the tube was a bit packed and I managed to get a seat, and even the Elizabeth Line (first time riding) was very much relaxed. Oddly enough the biggest travel disruption I had was on the way back with a delayed train that wasn't really related to the royal event. I did go to Paddington though to catch the EL, and I can't say I was too envious of anyone who had to travel between there and Reading.

 

[angled]

Regardless of what the "official" line on this may be I'd be astonished if you were challenged under the circs.

Thanks - I'll report back if I do get challenged.

 

[nickswift99]

No you don't but it is prudent to make some simple checks to ensure any time dependent journeys can be completed. These may include using, and not limited to :

Travel websites
Travel news on the radio
Traffic announcements on the car radio (via the TA function)
Waze
Google Maps
Other SatNav or journey software / App
Prior warning signage (road work notices)
Motorway cameras



There are various flight checking services and the last time I booked a flight the app was giving me regular updates. Almost everyone I know who takes a flight somewhere will check the flight status as one of the last things they do before leaving the house.

In this modern world, we have the tools to help us. It would be prudent to use them.



I guess you have never been stuck on a motorway before.

I have been stuck on a motorway but it's a very rare event. In summary, the incident has to happen within 10 mins of approaching the previous junction. However, even when stuck, I have a comfy seat, working air conditioning, a wide selection of musical entertainment plus water and snacks available "at seat".

Were things to get really bad, I can even recline my seat....

I have never been told to get out of my car, wait outside in the cold and wet for an indefinite period, watch lots of other cars go past and then after several hours, finally get in a different car to go the final 10 miles home (unlike frequent GWR journeys), all while being told that the next car is running on time.

 

[ComUtoR]

I have never been told to get out of my car, wait outside in the cold and wet for an indefinite period,

Happened a few times on busses I've travelled on.

all while being told that the next car is running on time.

I've also been dumped at a bus stop and watched the next bus go sailing by because it was running late, full up, or even had the Driver shout out his window "there is one behind". Not great when your stuck in some random village halfway to where you needed to be.

Maybe I should have asked for a public enquiry and demanded to see the CCTV footage, as well as getting all the bus times downloaded and recommended that the bus company was fined a few thousand quid to "sharpen their minds". Maybe what I also should have done is demanded that all bus shelters have drop down tables and plug sockets with a WiFi connection and that they should have ordered a taxi for me and the rest of those who got dumped out.

 

[LancasterRed]

Shockingly on my journey I experienced minimal disruption. My Avanti service left on time from Liverpool and arrived into London on time, the tube was a bit packed and I managed to get a seat, and even the Elizabeth Line (first time riding) was very much relaxed. Oddly enough the biggest travel disruption I had was on the way back with a delayed train that wasn't really related to the royal event. I did go to Paddington though to catch the EL, and I can't say I was too envious of anyone who had to travel between there and Reading.

I went too.

Avanti nailed it yesterday. They made sure everyone got home and even relaxed ticket acceptance when realising they had seats still free.

The tube was less busy than usual, even heading to Green Park. Heck, the viewing area was relatively quiet (with poor planning on some amenities) and the streets and crowds manageable.

The one mistake that was made today was failing to reopen Green Park when the crowds went down, albeit more of a complaint for the London Underground forum!

 

[Starmill]

Happened a few times on busses I've travelled on.



I've also been dumped at a bus stop and watched the next bus go sailing by because it was running late, full up, or even had the Driver shout out his window "there is one behind". Not great when your stuck in some random village halfway to where you needed to be.

Maybe I should have asked for a public enquiry and demanded to see the CCTV footage, as well as getting all the bus times downloaded and recommended that the bus company was fined a few thousand quid to "sharpen their minds". Maybe what I also should have done is demanded that all bus shelters have drop down tables and plug sockets with a WiFi connection and that they should have ordered a taxi for me and the rest of those who got dumped out.

How is ordering a taxi for you when your bus is cancelled unreasonable? That sounds like exactly what a good bus company would do.

 

[Horizon22]

I went too.

Avanti nailed it yesterday. They made sure everyone got home and even relaxed ticket acceptance when realising they had seats still free.

The tube was less busy than usual, even heading to Green Park. Heck, the viewing area was relatively quiet (with poor planning on some amenities) and the streets and crowds manageable.

The one mistake that was made today was failing to reopen Green Park when the crowds went down, albeit more of a complaint for the London Underground forum!

It was reported and to some extent expected that Underground numbers would be down; a public event with limited availability will not trump a public holiday for most with many destination locations also closed.

 

[LancasterRed]

It was reported and to some extent expected that Underground numbers would be down; a public event with limited availability will not trump a public holiday for most with many destination locations also closed.

For an event of the expected magnitude you would still be safer to assume the tube would be busy throughout though, especially on the lines going through and near Hyde Park and Kensington, irrespective of official guidance. Nonetheless that was not the case

 

[norbitonflyer]

I have been stuck on a motorway but it's a very rare event. In summary, the incident has to happen within 10 mins of approaching the previous junction.

I have never been told to get out of my car, wait outside in the cold and wet for an indefinite period, watch lots of other cars go past and then after several hours, finally get in a different car to go the final 10 miles home (unlike frequent GWR journeys), all while being told that the next car is running on time.

Why only within 10 minutes? The operators of motorway signs often seem to prefer to keep you on the motorway by not warning you of a queue, rather than divert you off the motorway.

Your description of getting out of your car etc is exactly my experience when I had the clutch fail on my car. For safety it is recommended you get out of the vehicle and wait on the roadside whilst waiting for the AA ( other rescue services are available), watching all the other cars go by while waiting an unknown time until you (and you car) are loaded onto another vehicle to be taken home.