Possible route reopenings

[Bevan Price]

A real shame that the the trackbed was built up in Dunblane (and Doune).

These days, it would probably only take about 8 minutes to get from Dunblane to Callander by train if it were still open. So a "fast" service from Glasgow to Callander, first stop Stirling, would probably take 45 minutes.

Not sure how long it took from Callander to Oban though.

Summer 1961 timetable, Callander to Oban fastest time was 2h. 35m. by the Euston - Oban sleeper. Most daytime services took about 10 to 20 mins. longer than this. The trouble with the line was that, apart from Crianlarich, between Callander & Oban there was 70 miles of sparsely populated territory generating hardly any passengers or freight.

The times from Stirling to Callander were 24 - 25 mins (non-stop) or 31-33 mins (all stations).

 

[PR1Berske]

As many of you are discussing proposals around Manchester :

has the future of the Mayfield terminus been decided ?

Various schemes have been put forward, including re-opening to absorb some of the strain on Piccadilly.

I always doubted it would happen and the lack of any development on the story suggests that doubt was well founded.

 

[jopsuk]

A real shame that the the trackbed was built up in Dunblane (and Doune).

These days, it would probably only take about 8 minutes to get from Dunblane to Callander by train if it were still open. So a "fast" service from Glasgow to Callander, first stop Stirling, would probably take 45 minutes.

Not sure how long it took from Callander to Oban though.

As the crow flies, Dunblane-Callander is about ten miles. By road, which is probably closer to the rail distance, twelve. You're suggesting that the train would have AVERAGE 90mph. This would mean building the line to take 100mph or more line speed. On what would be very much a secondary branch line.

 

[Mutant Lemming]

As I think has been mentioned elsewhere, electrifying the stretch between Acton Wells and Cricklewood would allow direct trains to run between Heathrow and St.Pancras, Luton Airport, Stansted and even Gatwick and Southend Airports.

 

[Badger]

I didn't realise that there were two railways Leicester to Rugby - the Great Central and the Midland Counties. The Midland Counties railway would be very easy to reinstate, running from South Wigston (junction with the MML) to Rugby via Wigston, Countesthorpe, Broughton, Ullesthorpe, Magna Park (largest distribution centre in Europe in 2008), Rugby.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midland_Counties_Railway

I imagine it mostly funded by a freight terminal at Magna Park. Would relieve lorry use on both the M1 and M6.

 

[LE Greys]

I didn't realise that there were two railways Leicester to Rugby - the Great Central and the Midland Counties. The Midland Counties railway would be very easy to reinstate, running from South Wigston (junction with the MML) to Rugby via Wigston, Countesthorpe, Broughton, Ullesthorpe, Magna Park (largest distribution centre in Europe in 2008), Rugby.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midland_Counties_Railway

I imagine it mostly funded by a freight terminal at Magna Park. Would relieve lorry use on both the M1 and M6.

Yes, I looked through that as part of an alternative high speed plan (this would act as the parallel slow and freight route). It turns out that it was once on a prime Anglo-Scottish main line from Euston to Edinburgh via Rugby, Leicester, Sheffield, York and Newcastle. At one point they wanted to close the MML south of Leicester and send all traffic this way and into Euston. If there is enough trackbed left, then there's a real possibility of a freight-only section to relieve a lot of pressure. Possibly a passenger service as well, I'm sure EMT would be interested in tapping into Northamptonshire (a short run to Northampton is possible).

 

[billio]

Yes, I looked through that as part of an alternative high speed plan (this would act as the parallel slow and freight route). It turns out that it was once on a prime Anglo-Scottish main line from Euston to Edinburgh via Rugby, Leicester, Sheffield, York and Newcastle. At one point they wanted to close the MML south of Leicester and send all traffic this way and into Euston. If there is enough trackbed left, then there's a real possibility of a freight-only section to relieve a lot of pressure. Possibly a passenger service as well, I'm sure EMT would be interested in tapping into Northamptonshire (a short run to Northampton is possible).

How about a Nottingham - Leicester - Rugby - Northampton -Milton Keynes - Bicester - Oxford - Didcot service ?. This connects a number of quite large towns and cities for which there is no easy connection on the current network.

 

[Nym]

I always doubted it would happen and the lack of any development on the story suggests that doubt was well founded.

One hopes and the chances are that Mayfeild and the rest of Baring Street Industrial Estate will be intergrated into a new Mayfeild & Piccadilly complex with the Mayfeild side forming up the HS2 terminus, as it's the only real space for 400m platforms with a clear run to Longsight where one can then start tunneling, or four track the Styal Branch (Loss of about 40 - 50 houses).

 

[SSL1990]

The Stourbridge to Walsall route needs to be reopened! It'd bring rail links back to tens of thousands of people that don't have any rail link at the moment, including in Dudley, the second largest town in the UK! The government needs to focus on areas other than the South and South East!

 

[Badger]

SSL1990: article from yesterday suggesting this again, but they keep saying it with nothing ever done about it. Becoming a bit of a joke to be honest.

http://www.expressandstar.com/news/2012/03/31/new-metro-route-as-part-of-289m-town-revamp/

My own suggestion in this thread was for Walsall to Dudley to be heavy rail, while the Wolv-Oxford railway used as a metro line alongside the Darlaston loop. There's a map somewhere.

ETA: http://www.railforums.co.uk/showpost.php?p=1020206&postcount=70

 

[SSL1990]

It sure is becoming a joke Badger! I think I would rather have the tram train project between Stourbridge and Walsall out of the two plans that are on the table. Ideally, it'd be better if they just reopened the line for heavy rail services as was the case pre Beeching Axe!

The South Staffordshire Line reopening should of been prioritised over a pointless extension of the metro to Birmingham New Street.

 

[dickdarlington]

Most of this is very interesting but also complete fantasy.

Bish Auck to Penrith? Makes more sense to build Darlington to Barnard Castle - Stainmore - Kirkby Stephen - and then join the S&C at Appleby. But seeing as there is no direct bus service across the A66, there is clearly no demand for such a service.

Durham Elvet? The dual carriageway from the A1(M) follows the trackbed. For me, if money was no object, I would extend the South Hylton line around link up with the Leamside at Shiney Row, follow the Leamside to a station at the Park and Ride, and then build a link over the A1(M) on the old east west link past the prisons and linking with the ECML and a terminus at Durham station. Never going to happen, but the least intrusive route to existing infrastructure, and connects Durham - Sunderland directly.

Leamside makes sense to open, but North South running for freight still means going through Newc station. A curve at Pelaw is possible to link Tyne Dock. I would send all freight Leamside-Stillington to increase capacity on the ECML. I'm actually playing with a utopian rail network for the north east in my spare time.

Definately a demand for Boro-D'ham and Boro-Newc traffic. But timings are key. They should focus on increasing line speed between Darlington and Boro too. Painfully slow for such a short distance. I can nearly cycle it as quickly.

Ashington is also a simple win. But politics is getting in the way.

Northallerton - Ripon makes sense. But won't happen because of the 'need' to serve York.

I can't comment on the others as I don't know too much. But Uckfield - Lewes would make a dramatic difference to Brighton-London traffic, and open up a whole new part of Sussex.

 

[bailey65]

http://www.thisiscornwall.co.uk/right-track-town-centre-train-link/story-15714052-detail/story.html
Looks like there could possibly be a track share on the bodmin steam railway with scheduled services under the next franchise sounds interesting.

 

[Philip Elliott]

I didn't realise that there were two railways Leicester to Rugby - the Great Central and the Midland Counties. The Midland Counties railway would be very easy to reinstate, running from South Wigston (junction with the MML) to Rugby via Wigston, Countesthorpe, Broughton, Ullesthorpe, Magna Park (largest distribution centre in Europe in 2008), Rugby.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midland_Counties_Railway

I imagine it mostly funded by a freight terminal at Magna Park. Would relieve lorry use on both the M1 and M6.

The trackbed is largely but there are about 10 houses in the line at Ullesthorpe, 30/40 at Broughton Astley and a few in Countesthorpe plus Tesco extra in Wigston. The most expensive part will be crossing both the M1 and M6. Re-opening from Rugby to Magna Park makes a lot of sense although I doubt the level crossing across the A5 would be reinstated! Gazeley properties (owners of Magna Park) paid for the Lutterworth southern bypass (A4303). The one problem with the route is that is misses Lutterworth.

It turns out that it was once on a prime Anglo-Scottish main line from Euston to Edinburgh via Rugby, Leicester, Sheffield, York and Newcastle.

The original London - Sheffield trains went Euston - Rugby - Leicester - Derby - Rotherham (reverse) - Sheffield taking about 10 hours

 

[Polarbear]

A few for North Wales that spring to mind;

• Bangor - Caernarfon
• Rhyl - Denbigh
• Hope Exchange - Mold (new chord required from Bidston-Wrexham line).
• Morfa Mawddach - Dolgeallu

Bangor - Caernarfon & Rhyl - Denbigh are routes that nowadays, have frequent bus services, (there's even a bus service between Rhyl & Denbigh on Christmas Day believe it or not) so the demand is certainly there.

By reinstating a small length of line between the present Bidston - Wrexham line & Mold, you create a whole raft of new possibilities. There is a demand between Mold & Liverpool, but most people either drive to Hooton, or take the bus to Chester railway station at present. A separate service could run from Mold to Wrexham

 

[LE Greys]

The trackbed is largely but there are about 10 houses in the line at Ullesthorpe, 30/40 at Broughton Astley and a few in Countesthorpe plus Tesco extra in Wigston. The most expensive part will be crossing both the M1 and M6. Re-opening from Rugby to Magna Park makes a lot of sense although I doubt the level crossing across the A5 would be reinstated! Gazeley properties (owners of Magna Park) paid for the Lutterworth southern bypass (A4303). The one problem with the route is that is misses Lutterworth.

The Great Central doesn't, and I wonder if there is some chance to switch between alignments a couple of times.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

http://www.thisiscornwall.co.uk/right-track-town-centre-train-link/story-15714052-detail/story.html
Looks like there could possibly be a track share on the bodmin steam railway with scheduled services under the next franchise sounds interesting.

I've often said that Padstow via Bodmin would be a workable service as long as it's possible to get through Wadebridge, where the station is now a car park and there is a road on the trackbed. The various creeks would be easier to deal with, there's space to shift to a parallel alignment (which they would have to do for the Camel Trail anyway). For the bridge version, put the trail on a ledge alongside. There's also the question of where to put the station in Padstow.

 

[Philip Elliott]

The Great Central doesn't, and I wonder if there is some chance to switch between alignments a couple of times

Helpfully it is quite simple - there is ample room to put chords in at Whetstone & Clifton to allow running from Leicester London Road to Rugby Midland. Also this would bypass problem areas in Whetstone and Brownsover leaving just Lutterworth as problematic. I'd take great pleasure in seeing 'Marylebone Drive' and 'Farringdon Avenue' demolished

 

[Cliveblackpool]

The Great Central doesn't, and I wonder if there is some chance to switch between alignments a couple of times.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


I've often said that Padstow via Bodmin would be a workable service as long as it's possible to get through Wadebridge, where the station is now a car park and there is a road on the trackbed. The various creeks would be easier to deal with, there's space to shift to a parallel alignment (which they would have to do for the Camel Trail anyway). For the bridge version, put the trail on a ledge alongside. There's also the question of where to put the station in Padstow.

Bodmin Parkway to Bodmin General - hope that will be running soon.
Bodmin General - Boscarne junction - Wadebridge - Padstow. May possibly be feasible to Wadebrige. Padstow would be expensive. Level crossing in Wadebridge, track bed by the River Camel is fairly narrow, and several bridges.
Deep drainage gulleys in cuttings. http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01856/camel_1856292b.jpg
Might be cheaper to reopen the North Cornwall Railway (Withered Arm), which chucks of it has 'disappeared'!
The Camel Trail brings millions to the region.

 

[LE Greys]

Bodmin Parkway to Bodmin General - hope that will be running soon.
Bodmin General - Boscarne junction - Wadebridge - Padstow. May possibly be feasible to Wadebrige. Padstow would be expensive. Level crossing in Wadebridge, track bed by the River Camel is fairly narrow, and several bridges.
Deep drainage gulleys in cuttings. http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01856/camel_1856292b.jpg
Might be cheaper to reopen the North Cornwall Railway (Withered Arm), which chucks of it has 'disappeared'!

I believe that Padstow-Wadebridge was part of the North Cornwall Railway. Wadebridge was the junction for a branch to Bodmin, which met the GWR there. Really, they should have diverted trains via Bodmin and Plymouth to avoid the lonely ramble over Dartmoor while keeping Padstow open. It's unfortunate that the most useful part of the route also happens to be the most expensive to rebuild.

The Camel Trail brings millions to the region.

Fortunately, it's easier to move a cycle track than a railway, as has been done between Airdrie and Bathgate. Apart from anything else, it would no longer be hidden in a cutting for much of the route.

 

[Cliveblackpool]

Yes Bodmin North (+ branch to Wenford Bridge) to Wadebridge (acquired by LSWR 1847) and Padstow ,and the North Cornwall Railway (1895) were LSWR.
Bodmin Road to Bodmin General was GWR.
The track Wadebridge to Padstow had been replaced with concrete sleepers not long before it closed.
As a kid I traveled by train several times to Launceston, Wadebridge, Bodmin General, and Padstow from Delabole.
All the over bridges were built to take double track on the N. Cornwall railway.
Hope Padstow reopens one day.

 

[charlee]

How About reopening to Bideford and Ilfracombe?

 

[bailey65]

North cornwall certainly got hammered by the beeching cuts (did he hate the cornish or something ?) the area certainly took the brunt of it and now the area is getting more popular with tourists and day trippers causing major road congestion in the summer the cuts now look very short sighted.

 

[cogload]

How About reopening to Bideford and Ilfracombe?

Reopening to Bideford is a lot easier than Ilfracombe from a physical perspective. You will not be requiring a new bridge over the River at Barnstaple for a start.

 

[LE Greys]

North cornwall certainly got hammered by the beeching cuts (did he hate the cornish or something ?) the area certainly took the brunt of it and now the area is getting more popular with tourists and day trippers causing major road congestion in the summer the cuts now look very short sighted.

Part of the problem was that they didn't have the inclination (or the staff) to undertake a proper survey. Had they done so, they would have found that many seaside branches were profitable because of contributory revenue. Bude would be another ambitious one. Over the other side, North Norfolk is a bit of a railway desert as well, although the Norforlk Orbital Railway idea might do something about that. For the national network, Hunstanton is really the only possible reopening project there, and even that is a nightmare. It's physically unobstructed for almost all the route, even through King's Lynn, except for a few short sections. In Hunstanton itself the trackbed is essentially treated as part of a caravan park (although there is nothing built on it), the same thing happens in Heacham, and the A149 has to be crossed twice and the A1078 once. It's amazing how simple it is to frustrate a reopening plan simply by severing a short section when almost the entire trackbed is clear.

 

[yorksrob]

For the national network, Hunstanton is really the only possible reopening project there, and even that is a nightmare. It's physically unobstructed for almost all the route, even through King's Lynn, except for a few short sections. In Hunstanton itself the trackbed is essentially treated as part of a caravan park (although there is nothing built on it), the same thing happens in Heacham, and the A149 has to be crossed twice and the A1078 once. It's amazing how simple it is to frustrate a reopening plan simply by severing a short section when almost the entire trackbed is clear.

Indeed. When you consider how many rivers, streams and minor roads need to be crossed when A roads are built or expanded, it puts it into perspective the complete lack of political will that exists with regard to rail reopenings.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

I'm no Tory, but I think it's only to fair to point out that although Labour opposed the Beeching cuts while in opposition they did nothing to halt them when they came to power in 1964. At the time they gained office many of the lines that had been closed were still intact and could have been re-opened quite easily and cheaply had they so wished: instead, they continued to close railways throughout their entire term in office, closing far more route miles than the Conservatives had done.

Please dont think a Labour Government is a panacea. A conservative government started the 1st channel tunnel. An incoming labour government cancelled it. A subsequent conservative government got the eventual Chunnel built. I could go on and on about electrification. The ECML was done by a Conservative government etc. I dont want to talk politics really but please dont fool ourselves that a Labour Goverment is a panacea.

 

[johnnychips]

A conservative government started the 1st channel tunnel. An incoming labour government cancelled it.

The Labour Party wasn't invented in 1881!

Know exactly what you mean though. Guess under which PM most comprehensive schools were approved - Mrs T.

 

[PaulLothian]

A few for North Wales that spring to mind;

• Bangor - Caernarfon
• Rhyl - Denbigh
• Hope Exchange - Mold (new chord required from Bidston-Wrexham line).
• Morfa Mawddach - Dolgeallu

Bangor - Caernarfon is considered by some as Phase 6 of the Welsh Highland Railway Project (http://www.isengard.co.uk/Phase 6.htm). I suspect the the WHR is more likely to rebuild it than any other candidate, given their achievements to date.

 

[Mattmatt]

My old stretch of the woods, is Stratford U-Avon. Some may know that the line used to go through to Cheltenham Spa, However from Broadway - Cheltenham Race Course the trackbed is owned by the GWR, but from Stratford - Long Marston it's just a cycle path owned by Sustrans. I believe there is a GRIP3 study going on to see if there is a sound business case to re-open the line south of Stratford to Honeybourne Jnc. As from Long Marston storage yard, many will know that there is a single line to Honeybourne jnc. I think it is also supported by the local Councils too. I have read that there are several TOC's whom are interested in running services south of Stratford. It would also provide a useful diversion for trains to London, without going via Leamington Spa. I for one hope this see the light of day; given the massive rail renaissance at present. any thoughts..........

 

[Mvann]

Bangor - Caernarfon is considered by some as Phase 6 of the Welsh Highland Railway Project (http://www.isengard.co.uk/Phase 6.htm). I suspect the the WHR is more likely to rebuild it than any other candidate, given their achievements to date.

When I was living up there, Caernarfon to llanberris was also looked at as part of the bid for the welsh national maritime museum. Nothing came of it as Cardiff was chosen for the museum.