Potential Shrewsbury to Wolverhampton upgrade

[Starmill]

Are we going to get six cars Salop to Brum?

Why would that have anything to do with what the other services from Aberystwyth do?

 

[Llanigraham]

Maybe there aren't but there are definitely are some who travel to London or further. Rather than having the extra hourly Aberystwyth service sit in the platform/sidings in Shrewsbury maybe a round trip to Crewe for HS2 and other connection is not such a bad idea.

Perhaps we folk who live and work along the Cambrian actually want an hourly service to Shrewsbury! It is something we have been asking for for years.
And I very much doubt that any unit would be sat around in a siding for an hour, it is much more likely to be rotated onto another service, as happens now.

 

[craigybagel]

Are we going to get six cars Salop to Brum?

Possibly. The whole timetable is getting recast, so (as I keep pointing out on all the TfW threads) don't make any assumptions based on what happens now.

 

[Wolfie]

The purpose is more for reconnecting Telford/Wellington/Shrewsbury with the nearby large towns that I've mentioned of which the rail links have been lost. I reckon for example that there is more potential demand for a Telford-Drayton rail link or for Telford-Gnosall-Stafford than there is for improved/faster London services.

Which "large" towns? As an individual of Salopian origin who as a teenager regularly cycled from Telford to Stafford via Newport l can think of precisely zero places between the two that l would apply such a label to.

 

[Philip]

Which "large" towns? As an individual of Salopian origin who as a teenager regularly cycled from Telford to Stafford via Newport l can think of precisely zero places between the two that l would apply such a label to.

Market Drayton, Gnosall, Stafford, Stoke, Nantwich and Crewe (the latter 3 if the Wellington-Nantwich and Drayton-Stoke lines were also to be reopened).

 

[Shrop]

Market Drayton, Gnosall, Stafford, Stoke, Nantwich and Crewe (the latter 3 if the Wellington-Nantwich and Drayton-Stoke lines were also to be reopened).

I have to say I'm with @Wolfie on this. I used to cycle a fair bit between Shrewsbury and Stafford, sometimes via Wellington, and there really isn't much along the route that would justify the re-opening of a rail service, even if the land was still available.

 

[tomuk]

Perhaps we folk who live and work along the Cambrian actually want an hourly service to Shrewsbury! It is something we have been asking for for years.
And I very much doubt that any unit would be sat around in a siding for an hour, it is much more likely to be rotated onto another service, as happens now.

Where have I suggested you won't get an hourly service to Shrewsbury? What I said was that the extra trains off the Cambrian instead of terminating in Shrewsbury would run through to Crewe. You would have 1tph to/from the Cambrian alternating between Birmingham Int and Crewe.

 

[Starmill]

Where have I suggested you won't get an hourly service to Shrewsbury? What I said was that the extra trains off the Cambrian instead of terminating in Shrewsbury would run through to Crewe. You would have 1tph to/from the Cambrian alternating between Birmingham Int and Crewe.

That would be a very desirable service pattern post HS2 phase 2a. I would expect it to come through as part of Transport for Wales' strategic planning for post HS2. For example a two-hourly Llandrindod - Crewe and two-hourly Aberystwyth - Crewe in opposite hours, plus the main Aberystwyth - West Midlands. However, it would also require rather more resources to run.

 

[Shrop]

Perhaps we folk who live and work along the Cambrian actually want an hourly service to Shrewsbury! It is something we have been asking for for years.
And I very much doubt that any unit would be sat around in a siding for an hour, it is much more likely to be rotated onto another service, as happens now.

An hourly service from the Cambrian Coast to Shrewsbury would offer great opportunities such as running through to Crewe with connections to London and elsewhere. However, the existing service which is largely two-hourly but with a couple of extra trains, has plenty of timekeeping trouble with the single line sections as it is. Making it an hourly service throughout the day risks quite a bit more unreliable timekeeping, I'm sorry to say.

 

[Llanigraham]

I do wonder why people think that there are a large number of passengers off the Cambrian who want to go to Crewe. From all my years travelling the route the vasy majority of passengers going east of Shrewsbury are heading into Brum, and most of them to go shopping or to an exhibition at the NEC. The number who are heading further and are looking for a connection to somewhere is rare.

 

[tomuk]

Making it an hourly service throughout the day risks quite a bit more unreliable timekeeping, I'm sorry to say.

It has been the plan for years for it to go hourly. It was a TfW Rail franchise commitment. TfW post covid are still aiming to deliver it once the 197s are in service.

 

[Shrop]

It has been the plan for years for it to go hourly. It was a TfW Rail franchise commitment. TfW post covid are still aiming to deliver it once the 197s are in service.

I genuinely wish them well. Do you know if any part of this plan involves running through to Crewe?

 

[craigybagel]

I genuinely wish them well. Do you know if any part of this plan involves running through to Crewe?

It wasn't part of the original plans. If it's been changed since it hasn't been mentioned publicly or reached traincrew yet.

 

[6Gman]

I'm sorry but Stafford is a railhead and a medium sized, forgettable market town which happens to be on a mainline and a junction. I can't see much leisure there and very little inbound commuting from Shrewsbury.

Shrewsbury is more interesting, but I would expect folks in Stafford do not routinely or materially seek pleasure, education or meaningful employment there.

Knowing both towns pretty well I would say that although only 30 or so miles apart neither looks toward the other for work, education, shopping, leisure or pretty much anything else. And for onward travel there are, in most cases, more obvious alternatives.

Market Drayton, Gnosall, Stafford, Stoke, Nantwich and Crewe (the latter 3 if the Wellington-Nantwich and Drayton-Stoke lines were also to be reopened

Well, that would require reopening three lines! And the "large" town of M Drayton has a population of 12,000; Gnosall under 5,000.

Telford/Wellington really isn't a big draw for the likes of Stoke or Crewe (I've lived in Crewe for 50+ years and I've been there twice. Bus spotting, which is a niche market! I suspect most Crewe people couldn't place them on a map).

 

[Wolfie]

Knowing both towns pretty well I would say that although only 30 or so miles apart neither looks toward the other for work, education, shopping, leisure or pretty much anything else. And for onward travel there are, in most cases, more obvious alternatives.


Well, that would require reopening three lines! And the "large" town of M Drayton has a population of 12,000; Gnosall under 5,000.

Telford/Wellington really isn't a big draw for the likes of Stoke or Crewe (I've lived in Crewe for 50+ years and I've been there twice. Bus spotting, which is a niche market! I suspect most Crewe people couldn't place them on a map).

Re your last para l agree. The converse is also true.

 

[tomuk]

Well, that would require reopening three lines! And the "large" town of M Drayton has a population of 12,000; Gnosall under 5,000.

Although reopening the line via Market Drayton is over the top it does need to acknowledged that the public transport in Market Drayton is terrible. The 64 which is every two hours off peak linking with Shrewsbury and Stoke with some peak extras to Shrewsbury plus an every 30 mins town circular.

 

[6Gman]

Although reopening the line via Market Drayton is over the top it does need to acknowledged that the public transport in Market Drayton is terrible. The 64 which is every two hours off peak linking with Shrewsbury and Stoke with some peak extras to Shrewsbury plus an every 30 mins town circular.

It's the old question:

Is the usage low because the service is poor, or is the service poor because the demand is low?

But building an expensive railway to test which it is cannot be the answer. Perhaps a good place for a government-funded trial of a high quality bus service - could call it Kickstart perhaps?

I was in Manchester today and had my first sighting of the X43 Sky Class 'deckers. Three or four of those for a two year trial, underwritten by government funding. If it proved popular it could continue; if not we would have the answer and the vehicles could be redeployed.

 

[zwk500]

It's the old question:

Is the usage low because the service is poor, or is the service poor because the demand is low?

But building an expensive railway to test which it is cannot be the answer.

+1 to this

 

[william.martin]

Late last year I started a thread suggesting that it would be worth increasing line speeds between Shrewsbury and Wolverhampton. Other routes out of Shrewsbury serve Chester and North Wales, ie nowhere with any population over 100,000; Aberystwyth and Pwllheli with even smaller populations; then Cardiff and South Wales where it’s over 100 miles until you reach any large conurbations; and then Crewe/Manchester, the latter of which is the one large population centre albeit still some distance away. (I’ve not detailed the Swansea route as it serves even fewer population centres than the Cambrian coast line and doesn’t separate as a route until 20 miles from Shrewsbury).

The other route from Shrewsbury Wolverhampton (pop 240,000) is only 30 miles away, with Telford (pop. 150,000) served en route, then Birmingham at 43 miles and onwards to London. I lamented the fact that this has the SLOWEST linespeeds of the routes out of Shrewsbury, but my post received quite a lot of criticism from people who said that increasing linespeeds simply wasn’t worthwhile.

That thread has now been closed, but since an increase in linespeeds is now under active investigation as mentioned in RAIL magazine, and also in the local press (link attached), I’d like to think this is worth further comment. What does anyone think about these proposals?

£15 million plan lodged to speed up Birmingham to Shrewsbury trains

A scheme to slash journey times on a rail line through the West Midlands and Shropshire today moved a stage closer after a £15 million plan was submitted to the Government.

www.shropshirestar.com

Quote shows article in local press (Shropshire Star) which proposes line speed improvements between Shrewsbury and Wolverhampton.

I live in Telford and use this line regularly and the 170's seem to be hanging on for dear life around some bends. I don't think that raising the speed limit is worth while as:
A: It would cost a bomb.
B: The line speed is quite high for the terrain and route it takes.
C: The driver very rarely hits the speed limit on the line anyway.

Market Drayton, Gnosall, Stafford, Stoke, Nantwich and Crewe (the latter 3 if the Wellington-Nantwich and Drayton-Stoke lines were also to be reopened).

I have never felt the need to visit any of these locations as the area already has the amenities you could ever possibly nead.