Sort of, Adessia includes Aventra as sub-brand for the time being.My theory is Adessia is a renaming of Aventra; is that what you're saying?
Sort of, Adessia includes Aventra as sub-brand for the time being.My theory is Adessia is a renaming of Aventra; is that what you're saying?
Metro-Cammell for example, before its closure, stopped making trains from scratch from the late 80s.What does built from scratch mean? The bodywork on Aventra is 4 aluminum extrusions made overseas and bolted together in Derby, the bogies are made in Siegen, Germany, and the traction motors and equipment come from Vasteras, Sweden.
Modern manufacturing has pieces made all around the world.
What's your evidence that Aventra body shell parts were made overseas?What does built from scratch mean? The bodywork on Aventra is 4 aluminum extrusions made overseas
Watch other areas of UK industry get very upset very fast when other countries reciprocate in those areas and their businesses are destroyed... Protectionism rarely works.Will in the current climate it would be much easier as they could simply say that stock must be fully constructed in the United Kingdom, I know that some of our manufacturing plants are simply finishing and fitting out body shells shipped in from elsewhere but this would quickly change if tender after tender was issued requiring complete build from scratch in this country which to be honest is what we should be doing anyway but that's a personal viewpoint
I asked a friend who worked at Litchurch Lane and he seems sure they came from the UK. He recalls they were not even covered, so fleet they didn't come that far away from DerbyWhat's your evidence that Aventra body shell parts were made overseas?
What's your evidence that Aventra body shell parts were made overseas?
In the Inside The Factory episode they were covered and the text looked like they had come from overseas.I asked a friend who worked at Litchurch Lane and he seems sure they came from the UK. He recalls they were not even covered, so fleet they didn't come that far away from Derby
I swear I saw a chart of "where do Aventra parts come from?" and the body shell was local to Derby, but I can't find it now.I asked a friend who worked at Litchurch Lane and he seems sure they came from the UK. He recalls they were not even covered, so fleet they didn't come that far away from Derby
Not for families of parts like body shell panels. It's much cheaper to have one supplier.I's quite likely that Bombardier/Alstom are sourcing from multiple suppliers.
Although Siemens UK was started in 1843, still has many factories and the radios along with rail signalling kit are made in ChippenhamI doubt the Aventra train radio from Siemens UK was actually manufactured in the UK.
Will be interesting to see who becomes Transport Secretary and if they continue with moving railway planning from the DfT to a new GBR ltd, and ensure there is help with UK factories, and no "boom and bust" culture with tenders and orders?.One of the bits quoted by the BBC says,
Even if there were a consistent pipeline of orders, there is no guarantee that Derby would win the contracts. As noted above, none of the current angst would be an issue if Derby was building stock for Tyne & Wear or Docklands Light Railway, both of which are being constructed overseas. How would any political party legally frame the tenders such that they gave a smooth pipeline of work for Derby?
I look forward to seeing how a future government addresses the issue of sharing out orders and ensuring that there is a constant stream of work.
Not really. For electronic components, one supplier makes sense as there is integration work.Not for families of parts like body shell panels. It's much cheaper to have one supplier.
I thought the extrusions came from Italy? Or has that changed in recent years?
The trucks rocking up had some very china looking typography on it.
My word. I certainly remember many of those suppliers, even my former employer is thereI swear I saw a chart of "where do Aventra parts come from?" and the body shell was local to Derby, but I can't find it now.
The steel cab crash structures are definitely made in Britain.
Not for families of parts like body shell panels. It's much cheaper to have one supplier.
Edit: found said chart! The bogies come from Germany and I think we established that the traction motors are... Swedish?... But most if not all of the car body is British.
View attachment 156936
Electronics is the one domain "second sourcing" is common within. For structural parts, assemblies etc having more than one supplier at once is practically unheard of. Sometimes a manufacturer will switch from one to another but it's rare. Lots of costs and risks involved.Not really. For electronic components, one supplier makes sense as there is integration work.
Multiple manufacturers can make parts like the aluminum body panels to the Aventra spec with no additional work needed at Bombardier/Alstom.
Multiple production locations have already been mentioned earlier in the thread so it's quite likely that Bombardier/Alstom were sourcing them from several manufacturers, particularly when Aventra output was at its peak.
"The future for our plants is very much focused on exports, as it has to be"Hansard transcript of a new Parliamentary committee debate on UK future of rail manufacturing. More focused on Hitachi than Alstom this time.
Some usual feeble waffle answers from Huw Merrimen
Alstom’s highly successful, modular X’trapolis commuter train platform, with over 6000 railcars sold worldwide is manufactured as well in the European Union and will be specially tailored for the DART+ programme
Some naive views of procurement from the other speakers as well.Some usual feeble waffle answers from Huw Merrimen
All the main train makers in this country have plants in the EU and elsewhere. Why would they want to export from here? The only train exporters we have are very small specialists like Clayton."The future for our plants is very much focused on exports, as it has to be"
Ireland placed a large order for X’trapolis trains, which could have been built at Derby, but will not be!
On Greensignals podcast Alstoms MD Nick Crossfield was very clear that if Litchurch Lane had other UK orders ie the extra 345s they would have executed this order from Derby but nothing materialised in time so their being built in Poland.All the main train makers in this country have plants in the EU and elsewhere. Why would they want to export from here? The only train exporters we have are very small specialists like Clayton.
The basis for the X'trapolis order would be for build in France.Ireland placed a large order for X’trapolis trains, which could have been built at Derby, but will not be!
Exactly. Derby has had enough difficulty producing its own Aventra platform, never mind producing a completely alien Alstom one.The basis for the X'trapolis order would be for build in France.
Why would Alstom (and Irish Rail) want to build them in Derby, which has no expertise on the platform?
So the Government's plan to increase train exports will not be easy.Exactly. Derby has had enough difficulty producing its own Aventra platform, never mind producing a completely alien Alstom one.
He said that because it is in his political interests to say that. But as always, we must remember that he is far from an impartial actor.On Greensignals podcast Alstoms MD Nick Crossfield was very clear that if Litchurch Lane had other UK orders ie the extra 345s they would have executed this order from Derby but nothing materialised in time so their being built in Poland.
Thats for sure as usual we are first out of the blocks to invent something and then fail to exploit it.The British government keeps chasing exports as a means to support oversized and failing industries. They did it for decades with nuclear power and all it did was hasten the collapse of the industry as the hope of exports lead to bad decision after bad decision.
The worst part is the government refuses to give up and keeps chasing the illusive export orders - ironically making decisions that weaken the domestic potential for the industry.Thats for sure as usual we are first out of the blocks to invent something and then fail to exploit it.
The basis for the X'trapolis order would be for build in France.
Why would Alstom (and Irish Rail) want to build them in Derby, which has no expertise on the platform?
If Alstom didn't have the capacity in France, that might have opened the door a bit.
The UK now being outside the EU doesn't help (tariffs, rules of origin etc).
The Labour leader has warned communities will be hit hard if rail manufacturing sites are lost.
Sir Keir Starmer visited the Hitachi manufacturing plant in Newton Aycliffe, County Durham, on Thursday.
Hitachi and Derby-based Alstom have both warned their work in the UK is at risk as orders drop, with potential for job cuts at both plants.
But the government said it was in talks with Hitachi about securing a sustainable future for the site.
Sir Keir, whose party has unveiled its plans to 'renationalise' railways, said the Hitachi workforce was "staring down the barrel of devastating job losses".
He claimed the situation was "not inevitable" and blamed the government's industrial strategy.
'Crucial sector'
Labour has said its plan for the rail industry would aim to end the "stop-and-start" they face with their order books, which train makers have said is contributing to a worsening financial situation.
He said: "This is a crisis that must be resolved urgently and must not be allowed to happen again.
"That's why, as part of our wider plan to fix Britain's broken railways, Labour will bring forward a new, long-term strategy for this crucial sector."
Transport Secretary Mark Harper said Labour's plan for the rail industry was unfunded and would result in higher taxes for working people.
But it won the backing of Keith Williams who carried out a review into the railways for ministers.
He said Labour's proposals would "take forward the substance of my recommendations to deliver a better railway for passengers and freight".
A Department for Transport spokesman said: "The Transport Secretary held a constructive meeting with union representatives of the Hitachi workforce last week and we remain in close contact with the company to secure a sustainable future for rail manufacturing at Newton Aycliffe."
The delivery of 2,600 vehicles isn't failure.
BBC also reporting Kier Starmer visiting Hitachi Factory
Starmer vows long-term plan for Hitachi Rail and Alstrom
The Labour leader says UK train manufacturers are staring down the barrel of devastating job losses.www.bbc.co.uk