Project Oval: TfL win DfT contract to expand contactless system to 233 rail stations by May 2024, Railcards coming to contactless payment cards

[Haywain]

Is the Freedom Pass area extended to Epsom? It looks like it on the map (orange area).

No, in the same way that it doesn't extend to Luton Airport Parkway. Project Oval has no impact on Freedom Pass availability.

 

[hkstudent]

No, in the same way that it doesn't extend to Luton Airport Parkway. Project Oval has no impact on Freedom Pass availability.

Indeed, as long as the area is not part of Greater London nor served by TfL rail services, then thats noway to be in part of Freedom Pass area

 

[Fazaar1889]

Updated with your info. Thanks @MikeWh!

I assume not, but via Lewes is permitted to Brighton, so perhaps that might be included one day? Probably not for a long while yet...


Remade it a bit more professionally now

I know it hasn't been announced but when do you think southwestern part (Guildford/Woking area) will become PAYG? 2024?

 

[JonathanH]

I know it hasn't been announced but when do you think southwestern part (Guildford/Woking area) will become PAYG? 2024?

There was a comment further back that the original May 2024 target had slipped - https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...less-payment-cards.231684/page-9#post-6119138 - being apparent because there is still no date for phase 1.

 

[MrJeeves]

being apparent because there is still no date for phase 1.

Is the end of December date not the plan any more? It's been mentioned by DfT and news outlets.

 

[JonathanH]

Is the end of December date not the plan any more? It's been mentioned by DfT and news outlets.

Oh sorry. I think I was picking up earlier information.

 

[Fazaar1889]

Oh sorry. I think I was picking up earlier information.

Is the end of December date not the plan any more? It's been mentioned by DfT and news outlets.

So post Dec 2024 got it XD

 

[James H]

I was at Henley on Thames on Monday and it strikes me that the signage at the readers "Contactless payments accepted" doesn't adequately convey that contactless is only valid to a subset of destinations. At the very least there ought to be something to the effect of 'check that your destination is within the contactless area before touching in'. It is very easy to see that someone could be misled into touching in for a journey where contactless wouldn't be applicable.

 

[Joe Paxton]

I was at Henley on Thames on Monday and it strikes me that the signage at the readers "Contactless payments accepted" doesn't adequately convey that contactless is only valid to a subset of destinations. At the very least there ought to be something to the effect of 'check that your destination is within the contactless area before touching in'. It is very easy to see that someone could be misled into touching in for a journey where contactless wouldn't be applicable.

You make a very good point.

 

[JaJaWa]

The July/August 2023 TfL Ticketing & Revenue Update has a feature on Project Oval and I've updated the map in the first post from this

As previously outlined in TRU145, the DfT have agreed £20m funding for the expansion of PAYG beyond Zone 6 to around 200 NR stations within the south-east of England.

This like other recent PAYG extensions will be for contactless payment only, as limitations within the Oyster system mean that we have reached the maximum number of zones that can be configured for calculating fares.

The first phase of Project Oval has recently been announced and will see PAYG expanded to 53 additional stations by the end of December.

Cubic installation work to equip the gates at the stations concerned with readers and to install PVals at ungated sites, has been underway for some time and as fares data has ben progressively loaded for these new stations as part of the fares revision process in readiness for the expansion.

The first phase of Project Oval will see contactless expanded to:

Chiltern	LNWR	C2C	South Western
Beaconsfield	Apsley	Basildon	Ashford (Surrey)
Denham	Berkhamsted	Benfleet	Datchet
Denham Golf Club	Bletchley	Chalkwell	Egham
Gerrards Cross	Bricket Wood	East Tilbury	Kempton Park
High Wycombe	Cheddington	Laindon	Shepperton
Seer Green & Jordans	Garston	Leigh on Sea	Staines
Thameslink	Hemel Hempstead	Pitsea	Sunbury
Bat & Ball	How Wood	Shoeburyness	Sunnymeads
Dunton Green	Kings Langley	Southend Central	Upper Halliford
Eynsford	Leighton Buzzard	Southend East	Virginia Water
Otford	Park Street	Stanford Le Hope	Windsor & Eton Riverside
Sevenoaks	St Albans Abbey	Thorpe Bay	Wraysbury
Shoreham	Tring	Tilbury Town
	Watford North	West Horndon
		Westcliff

It is likely that an additional fares Revision will be scheduled on 03 December to add additional sites and fares to facilitate Project Oval, and this is may also include some changes to Single ticket fares, to remove some charging anomalies, which will arise through the expansion of contactless payment.

In general, the PAYG fares to these new destinations are likely to match the standard Single fare, unlike within the London zones, where contactless is generally cheaper than the standard fare.

Further detail on the planned implementation dates for the various routes, along with fares and capping arrangements will be included in future editions of TRU nearer the launch.

As part of the DfT imitative to allow more NR customers to benefit from the use of contactless payments, in addition to the South East, the DfT and the Great British Railways Transition team are working towards PAYG pilots in both the West Midland and Greater Manchester.

Source: https://tfl.gov.uk/corporate/transp.../foi-request-detail?referenceId=FOI-1798-2324

 

[MrJeeves]

Interesting that the map graphic on the newsletter doesn't match the table! I assume the table (and hence my map) is correct, then.

What am I on about...? I should get some sleep.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

The July/August 2023 TfL Ticketing & Revenue Update has a feature on Project Oval and I've updated the map in the first post from this



Source: https://tfl.gov.uk/corporate/transp.../foi-request-detail?referenceId=FOI-1798-2324

Thanks for the update.

From the quoted document

In general, the PAYG fares to these new destinations are likely to match the standard Single fare, unlike within the London zones, where contactless is generally cheaper than the standard fare.

I do hope that's a misprint/not correct - otherwise there will be very little point in using Contactless, since it will be much more expensive than a standard ticket for most return journeys. Plus a missed opportunity to make travelling by train financially viable for non-return journeys.

 

[TEW]

Thanks for the update.

From the quoted document



I do hope that's a misprint/not correct - otherwise there will be very little point in using Contactless, since it will be much more expensive than a standard ticket for most return journeys. Plus a missed opportunity to make travelling by train financially viable for non-return journeys.

The conctactless fares for SWR at least in the initial phase 1 expansion can be seen in BR Fares now, and that doesn't appear to be how they have been priced. The peak contactless single fares appear to have been set at a little over half the cost of an anytime day return rather than the cost of an anytime day single.

 

[Snow1964]

The July/August 2023 TfL Ticketing & Revenue Update has a feature on Project Oval and I've updated the map in the first post from this

Source: https://tfl.gov.uk/corporate/transp.../foi-request-detail?referenceId=FOI-1798-2324

The diagrammatic map is quite misleading, draw it on a real map and will find it barely goes 25 miles from central London in some directions, but double that, about 50 miles in others. It is very weird shape.

Although I politely use the term weird shape, the bottom part of the boundary shape is not too far off, being shape of genitalia, so do think someone designing it was having fun.

 

[MikeWh]

I do hope that's a misprint/not correct - otherwise there will be very little point in using Contactless, since it will be much more expensive than a standard ticket for most return journeys. Plus a missed opportunity to make travelling by train financially viable for non-return journeys.

I think it was a somewhat cack-handed way of saying that PAYG fares will not offer a discount as they do in London. The return fares will be pretty much the same, notwithstanding the requirement to make the singles a multiple of 10p.

 

[nwales58]

Source: https://tfl.gov.uk/corporate/transp.../foi-request-detail?referenceId=FOI-1798-2324

Off topic, there is a horrendous blunder in the conclusions of on the Ticketing Irregularity Survey on pp8-9.

The tables and charts are inconsistent. No Ticket and PAYG non-validated are swapped on the pie chart. So the conclusion of a massive increase in PAYG non-validated is wrong. It fell from 17% to 10% and No Ticket increased from 30% to 40% (the November 2022 pie chart is inconsistent with the table in a couple of ways and a total is wrong too).

This affects the time series on page 9 too - I would guess that Aug-Nov 2022 someone broke the spreadsheet. The green and brown lines are swapped on the latest periods. How many people saw the massive apparent change and did not check the data?

 

[Bletchleyite]

The conctactless fares for SWR at least in the initial phase 1 expansion can be seen in BR Fares now, and that doesn't appear to be how they have been priced. The peak contactless single fares appear to have been set at a little over half the cost of an anytime day return rather than the cost of an anytime day single.

I suspect what it's saying is that paper tickets won't, unlike in London, be punitively priced to discourage their use. The contactless offering will be for convenience.

It really has to be this way otherwise e.g. the Network, Two Together and Family Railcards would be rendered useless. (Though of course Merseyrail rendered the latter two basically useless with very little objection).

 

[JonathanH]

It really has to be this way otherwise e.g. the Network, Two Together and Family Railcards would be rendered useless.

I'd imagine that is very low on the list of considerations.

At this stage, with no extension of the other railcards, nor indeed a child PAYG solution to the extended area, it would as you say be difficult to withdraw the existing structure.

 

[MrJeeves]

the November 2022 pie chart

Don't you mean the November 2023 pie chart?

 

[MikeWh]

Indeed, as long as the area is not part of Greater London nor served by TfL rail services, then thats noway to be in part of Freedom Pass area

Or historically part of the freedom Pass area, ie Dartford and Swanley have no TfL Rail services and are outside Greater London yet are covered by the Freedom Pass.

 

[traji00]

Readers are switched on at Upper Halliford & Shepperton, although only for smartcards:

 

[H&I]

Would Contactless PAYG become valid on LNER services when the system expands to Stevenage? LNER services are still flagged as having compulsory reservations in the timetable data. How would Contactless PAYG work with compulsory reservations?

 

[MikeWh]

Would Contactless PAYG become valid on LNER services when the system expands to Stevenage? LNER services are still flagged as having mandatory reservations in the timetable data. How would Contactless PAYG work with mandatory reservations?

As long as the service permits travel between London and Stevenage (ie it's not pick-up/set-down only) then it will be valid to use those services. My understanding is that while services may be flagged for mandatory reservations when purchasing tickets online, there is nothing to stop valid tickets being used on other services.

 

[Haywain]

Would Contactless PAYG become valid on LNER services when the system expands to Stevenage? LNER services are still flagged as having compulsory reservations in the timetable data. How would Contactless PAYG work with compulsory reservations?

Yes, which is why LNER have been involved in the discussions around Project Oval over the last couple of years.

 

[H&I]

As long as the service permits travel between London and Stevenage (ie it's not pick-up/set-down only) then it will be valid to use those services. My understanding is that while services may be flagged for mandatory reservations when purchasing tickets online, there is nothing to stop valid tickets being used on other services.

That is good news. It will be another example of a journey on an inter-city service with metro-style payment when it becomes valid.

 

[mattdickinson]

That is good news. It will be another example of a journey on an inter-city service with metro-style payment when it becomes valid.

It will be interesting to see if any of the long distance TOCs implement the Contactless Transit Model 3, where touchs in and out are matched to prepurchased tickets.

Understanding the UK Cards Association Contactless Transit models - Passenger

The subtleties between different contactless payment models can be hard to grasp. We've created an infographic to help explain these transit models.

passenger.tech

 

[Alex365Dash]

It will be interesting to see if any of the long distance TOCs implement the Contactless Transit Model 3, where touchs in and out are matched to prepurchased tickets.

Understanding the UK Cards Association Contactless Transit models - Passenger

The subtleties between different contactless payment models can be hard to grasp. We've created an infographic to help explain these transit models.

passenger.tech

Considering that they seem to be happy with eTickets, it seems unlikely…

 

[Farigiraf]

Have Hull Trains and Lumo had any talks regarding Project Oval? Both make a few stops (Hull trains only 1 Sunday call but its at 6pm so might be quite popular for afternoon/evening outs) at Stevenage and aren't pickup-setdown

 

[Alex365Dash]

Have Hull Trains and Lumo had any talks regarding Project Oval? Both make a few stops at Stevenage and aren't pickup-setdown

Both Lumo and Hull Trains calls are pick up and set down only such that you can’t travel between London and Stevenage.

As such, they’re outside the scope of this scheme.

 

[Farigiraf]

Both Lumo and Hull Train calls are pick up and set down only such that you can’t travel between London and Stevenage.

As such, they’re outside the scope of this scheme.

They are? Haven't seen it said anywhere, but makes sense