Public consultation on Liverpool Bus Franchising is launched

[gka472l]

Then yellow would be stolen given Bee Network buses are yellow. Putting the buses in red is a rip off from London - literal examples below.
Bee Network - not my photo.

2042 LG73FXP Go North West: 01/10/23

2042 LG73FXP BYD D8UR-DD / Alexander Dennis Enviro 400EV City of Go North West swings towards Bolton Bus Station just after a heavy downpour on 01st October 2023.

www.flickr.com

London (my picture):

SEe245 - LG73FYE

Seen at the Orpington Bus Garage open day is BYD Enviro200 EV SEe245 - LG73FYE.

www.flickr.com

To be fair, Merseytravel has been using yellow/black/white since the 1990's, longer than GMPTE have used yellow (since the M5000 trams got delivered???).... Here's MTL 7243 in Merseytravel livery for the 137 in Liverpool https://www.flickr.com/photos/johnmightycat/6080216347 (not my pic)

HTH

 

[Djgr]

To be fair, Merseytravel has been using yellow/black/white since the 1990's, longer than GMPTE have used yellow (since the M5000 trams got delivered???).... Here's MTL 7243 in Merseytravel livery for the 137 in Liverpool https://www.flickr.com/photos/johnmightycat/6080216347 (not my pic)

HTH

It's Superlambanana Yellow. And if you don't what that is, you're not local!

 

[WatcherZero]

Its a more orangey yellow than Manchester went with with grey along the side skirts and black at the back. They announced phase 1 was St Helens which would launch in 2026 which would mean both franchising areas sharing a border.

(SuperLambbanana for reference is a yellowish orange not the shade on the new livery)

 

[markymark2000]

Its a more orangey yellow than Manchester went with with grey along the side skirts and black at the back. They announced phase 1 was St Helens which would launch in 2026 which would mean both franchising areas sharing a border.

And a number of cross border routes. The 34, 320 and I think 352 are all up for franchising. There is absolutely zero potential of confusion. Be interesting to see if these organisations finally share a multi modal ticket as right now both Manchester and Merseyside refuse to work together in terms of ticketing so you can have a Manchester and Merseyside day tickets until the last stop before the border but you dare cross, that's an extra ticket to link between the two.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I hope it happens but I don't trust Arriva not to sabotage the venture .
There are too many gaps in service, mainly those left by the demise of Avon Buses. This means the Beechwood and Noctorum estates have no evening or Sunday service and no visitors buses linking Arrowe Park Hospital with South Wirral or Clatterbridge Hospital with West Wirral.

In Liverpool, Bowring Park has been virtually cut off since the demise of Halton Transport. There are many gaps in bus provision which Merseytravel has ignored. Ellesmere Port and Neston needs a better all day hourly service but lies outside the Liverpool City Region (LCR).

The Labour governments of 1997-2010 failed public transport by refusing to repeal the disastrous 1985 Transport Act. I see no commitment from Mr Starmer to do so. And without a repeal franchising will be sabotaged.

I’d be interested to know how Arriva could sabotage it and why? Or how without a repeal of the 1985 Transport Act, how any sabotage can take place. After all, additional legislation has been enacted and legal challenges in Manchester from Rotala and Stagecoach were tabled and rejected.

As has been said, Avon Buses specifically cited Merseytravel as being why they closed down.

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

And a number of cross border routes. The 34, 320 and I think 352 are all up for franchising. There is absolutely zero potential of confusion. Be interesting to see if these organisations finally share a multi modal ticket as right now both Manchester and Merseyside refuse to work together in terms of ticketing so you can have a Manchester and Merseyside day tickets until the last stop before the border but you dare cross, that's an extra ticket to link between the two.

One of the supposed benefits of creating TfN was to enable the creation of trans-regional zoning of fares to end the nonsense of such parochial approaches. I'm not convinced that it actually has the teeth to prevent this however.

 

[WatcherZero]

And a number of cross border routes. The 34, 320 and I think 352 are all up for franchising. There is absolutely zero potential of confusion. Be interesting to see if these organisations finally share a multi modal ticket as right now both Manchester and Merseyside refuse to work together in terms of ticketing so you can have a Manchester and Merseyside day tickets until the last stop before the border but you dare cross, that's an extra ticket to link between the two.

Yeah though Manchester extends rail discounts cross border to several stations in West Lancashire and Derbyshire with the launch of bus franchising they have stopped the old practise of extending the bus travel zone a few bus stops beyond their geographical borders on all cross border bus routes.

 

[GusB]

Then yellow would be stolen given Bee Network buses are yellow.

Putting the buses in red is a rip off from London - literal examples below.
Bee Network - not my photo.

2042 LG73FXP Go North West: 01/10/23

2042 LG73FXP BYD D8UR-DD / Alexander Dennis Enviro 400EV City of Go North West swings towards Bolton Bus Station just after a heavy downpour on 01st October 2023.

www.flickr.com

London (my picture):

SEe245 - LG73FYE

Seen at the Orpington Bus Garage open day is BYD Enviro200 EV SEe245 - LG73FYE.

www.flickr.com

It's ludicrous to suggest that colours are "stolen". Yellow buses have existed long before Bee Network, and London certainly doesn't have the sole right to use red as its colour.

This thread is for discussing the initial stages of Liverpool bus franchising - it's far too early to be having arguments about what livery the buses should carry. Let's stay on topic, please.

 

[Statto]

To be fair, Merseytravel has been using yellow/black/white since the 1990's, longer than GMPTE have used yellow (since the M5000 trams got delivered???).... Here's MTL 7243 in Merseytravel livery for the 137 in Liverpool https://www.flickr.com/photos/johnmightycat/6080216347 (not my pic)

HTH

Indeed, you can argue it's TFGM that have "stolen" Yellow from Merseytravel.

It's ludicrous to suggest that colours are "stolen". Yellow buses have existed long before Bee Network, and London certainly doesn't have the sole right to use red as its colour.

This thread is for discussing the initial stages of Liverpool bus franchising - it's far too early to be having arguments about what livery the buses should carry. Let's stay on topic, please.

If anything the Liverpool City bus franchising livery would be the livery on the Merseytravel fleet of Hydrogen deckers for the 10A that are in store at the moment.

 

[Darren Hayward]

The Yellow/Black/Grey would be the same livery as the Merseyrail trains

 

[28548]

Hello I believe tranche 1 of Merseyside franchising is due to start near end of year in St Helens followed by tranch 2 the Wirral in early 2025

Has Merseytravel confirmed if be like Manchester eg they will buy the depots and buses and companies will bid for routes? Also, how will this affect the smaller operators?

Has there been any up-to-date info regarding this?

 

[YorkRailFan]

Hello I believe tranche 1 of Merseyside franchising is due to start near end of year in St Helens followed by tranch 2 the Wirral in early 2025

Interesting, Route One is reporting that it will in face begin in 2026 in St Helens:

As described in Mr Rotheram’s manifesto, the five-stage rollout of bus franchising in the Liverpool City Region will still begin with St Helens in 2026.

Liverpool City Region bus franchising completion brought forward - routeone

Rollout of bus franchising in the Liverpool City Region will be accelerated by a year and completed by the end of 2027.

www.route-one.net

There is no mention of the Wirral but Mayor Rotherham wants franchising to be completely implemented by 2027:

Rollout of bus franchising in the Liverpool City Region will be accelerated by a year and completed by the end of 2027, Mayor Steve Rotheram has said.

Has Merseytravel confirmed if be like Manchester eg they will buy the depots and buses and companies will bid for routes? Also, how will this affect the smaller operators?

The Consultation simply says that it will follow the same system as Manchester and London:

Under the new plans, private operators will be contracted by the Combined Authority to run bus services – this is the system that exists in London and the one currently being introduced in Greater Manchester.

 

[Leedsbusman]

Interesting, Route One is reporting that it will in face begin in 2026 in St Helens:

Liverpool City Region bus franchising completion brought forward - routeone

Rollout of bus franchising in the Liverpool City Region will be accelerated by a year and completed by the end of 2027.

www.route-one.net

There is no mention of the Wirral but Mayor Rotherham wants franchising to be completely implemented by 2027:



The Consultation simply says that it will follow the same system as Manchester and London:

Procurement is due to start near the end of the year not actual operations.

 

[markymark2000]

The Consultation simply says that it will follow the same system as Manchester and London:

How can you follow the same system as both Manchester and London when both systems are in fact very different.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

In the same way as the Bee Network took over over the Wigan to Chorley service (via Coppull), with part of the route being exterior to the borders of the TfGM administered area, will the Liverpool- Southport-Preston service also come under the Liverpool bus franchising system?

 

[Mollman]

In the same way as the Bee Network took over over the Wigan to Chorley service (via Coppull), with part of the route being exterior to the borders of the TfGM administered area, will the Liverpool- Southport-Preston service also come under the Liverpool bus franchising system?

Highly unlikely, at least Southport - Preston section. Wigan - Chorley happened as it was run from Bolton. All Stagecoach routes form Merseyside into Lancashire (except 319 but that is an Lancs contract) are run from Preston or Chorley.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

How can you follow the same system as both Manchester and London when both systems are in fact very different.

I think it's more the concept of contractual awards (franchising is a bit of a misnomer) that they describe as...

Under the new plans, private operators will be contracted by the Combined Authority to run bus services – this is the system that exists in London and the one currently being introduced in Greater Manchester.

...rather than the execution i.e. in tranches rather than individual routes.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

As an aid to readers of this thread from outside the Liverpool City Region, is there currently information on the number of tranches, the area covered by each tranche, and the date for each tranche area commencement?

 

[gka472l]

As an aid to readers of this thread from outside the Liverpool City Region, is there currently information on the number of tranches, the area covered by each tranche, and the date for each tranche area commencement?

Some details here, and there will be 5 Tranches (or 'rounds' as described). On a related note, Stagecoach plans start repainting Gillmoss based vehicles into the Liverpool City Region 'Metro' livery later this year in readiness for the franchising.

Moving Buses Forward | Liverpool City Region Combined Authority

Find out more about the Liverpool City Region Bus Franchising Consultation

www.liverpoolcityregion-ca.gov.uk

People will be invited to make their voice heard about services in all the boroughs of our region – Halton, Liverpool, Knowsley, Sefton, St Helens and Wirral.

There will be five franchise rounds.

The geographical split of the five franchise rounds is shown below, but it should be noted that individual services will cross from one round to another.

Round 1 St Helens
Round 2 Wirral
Round 3 Sefton
Round 4 North Liverpool & North Knowsley
Round 5 South Liverpool, South Knowsley & Halton
We’ll be asking you to tell us how you think bus services could be improved by taking part in an online survey or attending in-person events being held across the region.

In early 2024, we gathered feedback on the St Helens bus network. We will asking for people’s views on other areas of the network in the coming months.

HTH

 

[danbarjon]

New Arriva buses going to multiple depots in Merseyside will arrive in Yellow I believe.

 

[gka472l]

New Arriva buses going to multiple depots in Merseyside will arrive in Yellow I believe.

Yes, 52 on order, all to be delivered in yellow.....all Merseyside depots (plus Runcorn) are getting some each.

 

[danbarjon]

Yes, 52 on order, all to be delivered in yellow.....all Merseyside depots (plus Runcorn) are getting some each.

Does anyone know what type of buses these are? Also when they would be delivered, I am imagining end of this year.

 

[EnviroExplorer]

Does anyone know what type of buses these are? Also when they would be delivered, I am imagining end of this year.

A mix of Volvo B8RLE/MCV Evoras and ADL Enviro 200 MMCs to my knowledge, with examples expected at other Arriva regions too (several internal sources which are not public). I believe there is also due to be a major cascade plan with more buses shipped in from elsewhere, which will see a highly modernised fleet at Merseyside to oust more Pulsars.

 

[danbarjon]

A mix of Volvo B8RLE/MCV Evoras and ADL Enviro 200 MMCs to my knowledge, with examples expected at other Arriva regions too (several internal sources which are not public). I believe there is also due to be a major cascade plan with more buses shipped in from elsewhere, which will see a highly modernised fleet at Merseyside to oust more Pulsars.

That’ll be very good, here’s to hoping they are up to a modern enough specification.

In other news as well, the first Belfast Glider bus has arrived for a trial in Merseyside, already freshly painted in Metro colours.

 

[johncrossley]

In other news as well, the first Belfast Glider bus has arrived for a trial in Merseyside, already freshly painted in Metro colours.

If they like it and want to buy it, is that model still available, given the demise of Van Hool?

 

[gka472l]

That’ll be very good, here’s to hoping they are up to a modern enough specification.

In other news as well, the first Belfast Glider bus has arrived for a trial in Merseyside, already freshly painted in Metro colours.

The Glider is at Stagecoach's Rock Ferry depot

A mix of Volvo B8RLE/MCV Evoras and ADL Enviro 200 MMCs to my knowledge, with examples expected at other Arriva regions too (several internal sources which are not public). I believe there is also due to be a major cascade plan with more buses shipped in from elsewhere, which will see a highly modernised fleet at Merseyside to oust more Pulsars.

Indeed, Luton's 14 current Evora's are to go to Merseyside (specifically Bootle depot)

 

[WarrenT]

I'm uneducated on this so called "Glider Bus" can someone give me a quick summary of the plan with it, I've just had a quick google to see what the bus is and all its done is left me confused. A bendy bus on the Wirral? looks more like a tram to me though.

 

[Leedsbusman]

I'm uneducated on this so called "Glider Bus" can someone give me a quick summary of the plan with it, I've just had a quick google to see what the bus is and all its done is left me confused. A bendy bus on the Wirral? looks more like a tram to me though.

The mayor wants a BRT (bus rapid transit) route. It’s probably a PR thing related to that.

 

[danbarjon]

I'm uneducated on this so called "Glider Bus" can someone give me a quick summary of the plan with it, I've just had a quick google to see what the bus is and all its done is left me confused. A bendy bus on the Wirral? looks more like a tram to me though.

Essentially they are bendy buses in the style of a tram, everyone gets on at any door they wish. I believe some people in Belfast aren’t fans of it so we will see what people in the LCR think of it.

 

[WarrenT]

Oh right thank you.