Question for any Drivers

[Dorey]

Hi, hoping to get a driver's opinion or clarification on rules etc please.
If a signaller has to replace a signal to danger and it will likely/ definitely cause a driver to see a change of aspect, green to yellow should the action be followed up with an urgent call to the driver to advise / explain? Similarly if the action will cause an irregular sequence (but no danger of SPAD) is it courtesy to speak to the driver before he sees it and has to report it or more the norm for the signaller to wait for the driver to call up?
Thanks

 

[172345]

If a signaller puts a signal back on you which causes you to SPAD you would contact the signaller straight away. However if the signaller put a signal back and the driver hadn't of reached the signal yet but then had the correct sequence leading to a red. You'd get a contact signaller message appear which you'd contact the signaller once coming to a stand at the red. My FOC are clear that you only speak to the signaller when running on greens when on the move. You would never speak to the signaller whilst running on cautions as this is a distraction

 

[Stigy]

Hi, hoping to get a driver's opinion or clarification on rules etc please.
If a signaller has to replace a signal to danger and it will likely/ definitely cause a driver to see a change of aspect, green to yellow should the action be followed up with an urgent call to the driver to advise / explain? Similarly if the action will cause an irregular sequence (but no danger of SPAD) is it courtesy to speak to the driver before he sees it and has to report it or more the norm for the signaller to wait for the driver to call up?
Thanks

If a signaller has a cause to put a signal back to danger that’s in front of you and it’s not an emergency situation, they will contact the driver first. If they have to put a signal back In an emergency and you’re travelling at speed and can’t stop in time and you subsequently SPAD that signal, you’d contact the signaller in the required way, but naturally it wouldn’t be the driver’s fault he or she passed it at danger.

If at a station and the signaller put a starting signal back on the driver, I believe the rules for signallers is to always contact the driver first where possible? If the driver SPAD’d a signal because it was put back without telling him I guess it’s a bit less clear cut, but ultimately it’s the driver’s responsibility to check the signal is showing a proceed aspect before starting.

 

[Coach Carter]

I don’t think he is saying put back to red on your next signal. He is asking about changing the following signal to red but at a time when it would change your already sighted green signal back to a yellow in front of you. At least that’s how I read the question.

 

[Stigy]

I don’t think he is saying put back to red on your next signal. He is asking about changing the following signal to red but at a time when it would change your already sighted green signal back to a yellow in front of you. At least that’s how I read the question.

I’ve reread it now. I think you’re right and I think my previous post was a waste of time

 

[Liam00086]

Hi, hoping to get a driver's opinion or clarification on rules etc please.
If a signaller has to replace a signal to danger and it will likely/ definitely cause a driver to see a change of aspect, green to yellow should the action be followed up with an urgent call to the driver to advise / explain? Similarly if the action will cause an irregular sequence (but no danger of SPAD) is it courtesy to speak to the driver before he sees it and has to report it or more the norm for the signaller to wait for the driver to call up?
Thanks

If the signal in front of you changed from green to yellow you would stop immediately and contact the signaller, as it would be a signal irregularity Regardless of the reason for the change. The signaller needs your permission to put a signal back on you, with out it would mean it was an emergency situation. You wouldn’t move your train until you had spoken to the signaller and have his authority to move.

 

[SignallerJohn]

Hi, hoping to get a driver's opinion or clarification on rules etc please.
If a signaller has to replace a signal to danger and it will likely/ definitely cause a driver to see a change of aspect, green to yellow should the action be followed up with an urgent call to the driver to advise / explain? Similarly if the action will cause an irregular sequence (but no danger of SPAD) is it courtesy to speak to the driver before he sees it and has to report it or more the norm for the signaller to wait for the driver to call up?
Thanks

first question? Why are you giving a driver a change of aspect? You said it may or may not give a change of aspect, you should know if you’re on 3 or 4 aspect signalling and should be able to see if it will or will not cause one. Let me be clear, if you think there is a safety of the line issue, always, 100% no hesitation put the signal to danger. It’s easier to explain why you did, than why you didn’t.

i’d also recommend looking up SPAR vs SPADs, as you mention specifically a SPAD but it’s seems you should be referring to a SPAR which is a different kettle of fish. Drivers won’t be as annoyed with a SPAR when they find out you had a trespasser or something (and you’ve stopped them at your first controlled signal a few signal sections out)

 

[Scottychoo]

SPAR?? What has a supermarket got to do with it??

 

[driver9000]

SPAR?? What has a supermarket got to do with it??

Signal Passed At Red. It's what they call the former Cat-B, C and D SPAD now.

 

[Jon1930]

Stop immediately, contact signaller...I was going on greens, then come around the corner and its red..s*** my pants and slam the whole lot in...contacted signalled who informed me of a bridge bash incident

 

[43066]

Hi, hoping to get a driver's opinion or clarification on rules etc please.
If a signaller has to replace a signal to danger and it will likely/ definitely cause a driver to see a change of aspect, green to yellow should the action be followed up with an urgent call to the driver to advise / explain?

If it’s on an adjacent line I’ve learned not to bother reporting it - as signallers might put routes back so long as there is no currently no train currently being driven to the signals in question.

Similarly if the action will cause an irregular sequence (but no danger of SPAD) is it courtesy to speak to the driver before he sees it and has to report it or more the norm for the signaller to wait for the driver to call up?
Thanks

If a driver sees an irregular sequence they should be dropping the lot immediately and making an urgent call to the signaller. Whenever it has happened to me it’s either been a straightforward equipment failure (leading to a SPAR in one case), or where the signaller has changed a route in the belief I wasn’t yet within view of the signal which went from green to yellow.

 

[Tomnick]

Common sense has to apply to some extent here. Obviously putting a signal back to danger that causes a change of aspect at a signal that the train’s closely approaching (or has already passed!) is a Bad Thing and - obviously unless it’s an emergency - should be preceded by a ‘contact signaller’ and a conversation with the driver. No drama when it happens - last time I had it, I knew that I was two signals away from the signal that would take me one of two ways into a station, so I’d already guessed what the signalman was going to tell me when I phoned him. A signal reverting to a more restrictive aspect on an adjacent line, or even on my line if it’s a long straight and in the middle distance with a couple of green signals intervening, isn’t a problem at all for me - where do you draw the line there?

Drivers won’t be as annoyed with a SPAR when they find out you had a trespasser or something (and you’ve stopped them at your first controlled signal a few signal sections out)

I’d like to think that they wouldn’t be annoyed at all in that case, given that you’ve potentially saved them from a dangerous situation! More generally, personally it’s more about being shaken up (either the “what if” factor or the initial self-doubt - was the previous signal really green or have I screwed up?!) than being annoyed.

 

[Dorey]

Thank you everyone who has replied.

I don’t think he is saying put back to red on your next signal. He is asking about changing the following signal to red but at a time when it would change your already sighted green signal back to a yellow in front of you. At least that’s how I read the question.

Yes, I wondered if there is a standard procedure for drivers here? Obviously a change to red is going to mean getting it stopped ASAP then speak to the signaller, but is there consensus on what happens green to yellow?

first question? Why are you giving a driver a change of aspect? You said it may or may not give a change of aspect, you should know if you’re on 3 or 4 aspect signalling and should be able to see if it will or will not cause one. Let me be clear, if you think there is a safety of the line issue, always, 100% no hesitation put the signal to danger. It’s easier to explain why you did, than why you didn’t.

i’d also recommend looking up SPAR vs SPADs, as you mention specifically a SPAD but it’s seems you should be referring to a SPAR which is a different kettle of fish. Drivers won’t be as annoyed with a SPAR when they find out you had a trespasser or something (and you’ve stopped them at your first controlled signal a few signal sections out)

Putting back because of an incident, trespasser for example and I meant may or may not be seen by the driver, i.e next but one signal replaced but could be before he saw the initial aspect anyway.
And my bad, yes SPAR not SPAD.

 

[Intermodal]

Yes, I wondered if there is a standard procedure for drivers here? Obviously a change to red is going to mean getting it stopped ASAP then speak to the signaller, but is there consensus on what happens green to yellow?

The rule book clearly prescribes that in the event of an irregular signalling sequence (such as green to yellow) then you must stop your train immediately and speak to the signaller about it. Taken from Module S7 section 7.1:

 

[43066]

The rule book clearly prescribes that in the event of an irregular signalling sequence (such as green to yellow) then you must stop your train immediately and speak to the signaller about it. Taken from Module S7 section 7.1:

View attachment 83354

The “on any line” bit of that is what caused me to pick up the GSMR when I saw a green flick to two yellows on an adjacent line. This was due to the signaller putting a route back, and I wasn’t thanked for it! Nowadays I generally wouldn’t report this.

An irregular aspect sequence on signals I’m actually driving to = emergency brake application and an urgent call.

 

[Joliver]

. This was due to the signaller putting a route back, and I wasn’t thanked for it!

I've had this too. We do our job, follow the rule book, which we are expected to know all of. Then get a curt response from the signaller.

 

[SignallerJohn]

The “on any line” bit of that is what caused me to pick up the GSMR when I saw a green flick to two yellows on an adjacent line. This was due to the signaller putting a route back, and I wasn’t thanked for it! Nowadays I generally wouldn’t report this.

An irregular aspect sequence on signals I’m actually driving to = emergency brake application and an urgent call.

Unless the extract is missing a part it doesn’t mention main aspect signals?

With that being said at our place we won’t pull up a signal on an adjacent line with a driver baring down on it.

 

[43066]

Unless the extract is missing a part it doesn’t mention main aspect signals?

The last bit says tell the signaller “at the first opportunity” re. An irregularity at a PL/subsidiary signal, which implies you tell them immediately for any other type. At least that’s my reading.