Cheap business travel: 4 people per pallet, tied to a pole in the middle to stop them from falling off.Also remember that this isn’t just about the parcels market. Indeed it may not be even mostly about the parcel market. They are going after palletised, high value freight.
I'm wondering how well a 769 will cope shoving an attached 319 around even at lower speed. While just over 1000hp available so nominally 3 x that of an 08 there is only traction from two bogies / four axles. Other threads refer to issues and restrictions when 319's run in multiple with one set having two or four motors out.
If serious freight flows start running to Plymouth, then they will need a rail route that runs in storm tides or a diversionary route.I am assuming the use of class 319s as "trailer" units for 769s only applies to non electrified sections of route. So in the case of Birch Coppice - Scottish services, the 769 will need to haul or push the "trailer" from Birch Coppice to Walsall, or to Nuneaton via Whitacre. Neither route is particularly high speed, after which the pans are raised on both units and "100mph here I come" !!!.
Presumably the piece of route from London Gateway to the OLE frontier is also not particular far. I am guessing Gateway is somewhere near the old Thames Haven site, in which case the 769+319 combo would run under 25kV past East Tilbury to the old Thames Haven Jn before dropping pans and running on diesel.
Birch Coppice to the "Southwest" would be a whole different ballgame for a class 319 / 769 combo, and perhaps Orion have other rolling stock plans for that.
...it's called a truck (or a bus for passengers) - for the odd occasions when the route might actually be completely closed due to weather.then they will need a rail route that runs in storm tides or a diversionary route.
About 2miles unwired till you hit the container unloading area where the wires would stop in other terminals and about 3miles max to where the actual loading /unloading would take place.I am assuming the use of class 319s as "trailer" units for 769s only applies to non electrified sections of route. So in the case of Birch Coppice - Scottish services, the 769 will need to haul or push the "trailer" from Birch Coppice to Walsall, or to Nuneaton via Whitacre. Neither route is particularly high speed, after which the pans are raised on both units and "100mph here I come" !!!.
Presumably the piece of route from London Gateway to the OLE frontier is also not particular far. I am guessing Gateway is somewhere near the old Thames Haven site, in which case the 769+319 combo would run under 25kV past East Tilbury to the old Thames Haven Jn before dropping pans and running on diesel.
Birch Coppice to the "Southwest" would be a whole different ballgame for a class 319 / 769 combo, and perhaps Orion have other rolling stock plans for that.
Indeed most posters focusing on Business-to-Consumer which they are more personally familiarity with forgetting the large palletised haulage for which most of the long distance hub to hub movements take place at night.Also remember that this isn’t just about the parcels market. Indeed it may not be even mostly about the parcel market. They are going after palletised, high value freight.
They don't deliver after 1900 in my experience, so goods doing a long daytime transit would probably be delivered early the next day, which is probably the same as if it had travelled overnight. But due to engineering access, a 100mph electric path is probably more consistently obtainable in the daytime than overnight - I agree a 769 hauling/pushing a 319 will be pretty sluggish and probably only useful for "last mile".Remember that non-Royal Mail couriers aren't wedded to the old "distribute overnight and deliver by breakfast" paradigm. In our street it's not unusual to see Hermes and DPD vans dropping off around Sunday teatime for example.
But is an EMU conversion suitable for pallets? Would they manage any more than one pallet in each door vestibule area, so eight per unit?Indeed most posters focusing on Business-to-Consumer which they are more personally familiarity with forgetting the large palletised haulage for which most of the long distance hub to hub movements take place at night.
But is an EMU conversion suitable for pallets? Would they manage any more than one pallet in each door vestibule area, so eight per unit?
Do we know if ROG are fitting these? I recall they were experimentally fitted in a parcels van back in the 1990s - TOPS coded LFA allegedly for low-flying aircraft...Obviously weight would be the major factor but cargo aircraft have been using roller floors for a long time, these could easily increase the number of pallets to sixteen per unit
Live Floor Air-braked of course.Do we know if ROG are fitting these? I recall they were experimentally fitted in a parcels van back in the 1990s - TOPS coded LFA allegedly for low-flying aircraft...
Do we know if ROG are fitting these? I recall they were experimentally fitted in a parcels van back in the 1990s - TOPS coded LFA allegedly for low-flying aircraft...
Wouldn't it need a raised "loading bay" to get the pallets into and out of a road vehicle, or can pallet trucks cope with that sort of height difference?ROG were certainly putting roller floors in one of the vehicles as a trial.
The handling equipment need not be too serious - quite simple to move pallets up to a tonne using hand pallet ‘trucks’. Needs to be broadly level of course. I used to shift all sorts of stuff in / out of artics and in warehouse with these. Putting them in a train would be no different.
usually use a tail lift in/out of road vehicles if a loading bay isn't available.Wouldn't it need a raised "loading bay" to get the pallets into and out of a road vehicle, or can pallet trucks cope with that sort of height difference?
They don't deliver after 1900 in my experience, so goods doing a long daytime transit would probably be delivered early the next day, which is probably the same as if it had travelled overnight. But due to engineering access, a 100mph electric path is probably more consistently obtainable in the daytime than overnight - I agree a 769 hauling/pushing a 319 will be pretty sluggish and probably only useful for "last mile".
But is an EMU conversion suitable for pallets? Would they manage any more than one pallet in each door vestibule area, so eight per unit?
Yes they have for a trial vehicle:Do we know if ROG are fitting these? I recall they were experimentally fitted in a parcels van back in the 1990s - TOPS coded LFA allegedly for low-flying aircraft...
Palletised goods would need some serious mechanical handling equipment, and unlikely to be viable in a station unless road vehicles could be brought close to the train and probably the area cordoned off from the public.
Wouldn't it need a raised "loading bay" to get the pallets into and out of a road vehicle, or can pallet trucks cope with that sort of height difference?
usually use a tail lift in/out of road vehicles if a loading bay isn't available.
IIRC EWS developed two vans capable of taking aircraft containers. Not sure if they had roller floors though. Think they were ex Super BG numbered something like 95400 and 95401. This image might be themDo we know if ROG are fitting these? I recall they were experimentally fitted in a parcels van back in the 1990s - TOPS coded LFA allegedly for low-flying aircraft...
Palletised goods would need some serious mechanical handling equipment, and unlikely to be viable in a station unless road vehicles could be brought close to the train and probably the area cordoned off from the public.
I would imagine removing the seats and the door partitions will make a difference in floor space and capacity.....But is an EMU conversion suitable for pallets? Would they manage any more than one pallet in each door vestibule area, so eight per unit?
They sure can - you could use somethign like this which would negate having to use the tail lift on the wagon which would obviously speed up loadingWouldn't it need a raised "loading bay" to get the pallets into and out of a road vehicle, or can pallet trucks cope with that sort of height difference?
one would hope they have done all that with them starting next monthThe trick will be in three parts. Firstly finding existing vacant locations with easy access to the road network, planning permission for 24/7 use as a distribution terminal, and space to park an 8/12 car train so that it can be easily unloaded, together with apron/parking space for road vehicles. The second part is finding the most efficient method of transferring the pallets/cages from rail to road vehicles. The final part is doing this without needing Network Rail to do any works such as signalling and thus likely to blow the business case
Orion have a strategic network route map available on their website:
View attachment 91913
Source: https://orion.railopsgroup.co.uk/
Looks that way. Isn't The Irish Post/Mail the last "parcels" service up that way. Not sure that Res even ran to Holyhead. Did Holyhead even have a Red Star Parcelspoint?Can't imagine they intend using all those stations/terminals.
They planning on using Holyhead???
No mention of Mossend.Orion have a strategic network route map available on their website:
View attachment 91913
Source: https://orion.railopsgroup.co.uk/
Is there any confirmation/suggestion this will be continued when travellers return?Separately, CrossCountry are trialling medical freight which they are carrying in non-passenger areas:
Freight and passenger operators team up for medical supply service in UK
InterCity RailFreight and CrossCountry are to provide vital support to the medical sector across the UK. The long distance passenger train operator CrossCountry, which has the most geographically comprehensive network of all the passenger operators, and specialist carrier InterCity Railfreight...www.railfreight.com
The lack of platform space
So the sleeper can use three platforms, the rest aren't long enough. These are 1, 2 and 7, so the sleeper needs to occupy one of these overnight for the sleeper to arrive into (even though there aren't any trains in the platform, it is still reserved as the sleeper platform during this time)
I did make a mistake, in that there are also two Avanti departures south before 6am, using two of these platforms (usually 1 and 2) so these are occupied as well.