Rail Staff giving permission to board trains without tickets on social media

[miami]

A poster on a local facebook group, who claims they are an "On-Train Conductor at Transport for Wales Trafnidiaeth Cymru", has stated

I work for TFW and there are ticket machines at Nantwich station, you can buy mobile/e- tickets or buy a ticket from the guard on the train, if they come through.

I would hope that would (assuming the poster isn't lying about their work) count as a defence to bylaw 18 "an authorised person gave him permission to travel without a valid ticket", but I'm sure in railway land it wouldn't be, as TfW would claim the person is not "acting in the course of his duties", despite specifically identifying that they work for TfW and have told the questioner they can board without a ticket (and indeed imply they don't need a ticket if the guard doesn't come through)

If it's a breach of internal TfW policy for an employee to make such a statement, surely that's not anything to do with the person asking for help.

 

[greyman42]

Even if the guard allows you to travel without a ticket, how do you get out at the other end if there are ticket barriers?

 

[alxndr]

I suspect you'd get told it's nothing to do with them what a random person, who may or may not work for TfW, says on social media and that you'd be a fool to take their word for gospel.

I could go on social media and say I'm the CEO of Tesco and that you can all have £100 free shopping—doesn't mean your local shop has to give it to you!

 

[AlterEgo]

“A man on Facebook told me it was okay” probably wouldn’t cut it as an “authorised person”, let’s be honest.

 

[miami]

Even if the guard allows you to travel without a ticket, how do you get out at the other end if there are ticket barriers?

Well a guard on a train can legitimately give you permission to travel without a ticket. Proving that as a line of defence is another matter. Presumably they could accompany you, or write a note.

“A man on Facebook told me it was okay” probably wouldn’t cut it as an “authorised person”, let’s be honest.

Depends, if you know that person is a guard then it certainly sounds like they are acting in their duties.

If a uniformed member of staff at a station tells me I can, surely it's not my responsibility to work out if they are operating according to their duties or if they are being insubordinate.

 

[AlterEgo]

Depends, if you know that person is a guard then it certainly sounds like they are acting in their duties.

That's right, a guard's duties include posting on Facebook.

 

[GB]

If a uniformed member of staff at a station tells me I can, surely it's not my responsibility to work out if they are operating according to their duties or if they are being insubordinate.

Bit different to a Facebook post isn't it?

 

[AlterEgo]

Bit different to a Facebook post isn't it?

I authorise you to travel without a ticket. I promise I work for a TOC. Go ahead, help yourself!

 

[mmh]

Yes, you should not take comments on the internet from unverified random people as official advice.

I do however expect most people commenting on this part of the internet have not travelled from an unstaffed TFW station and therefore have no experience of what actually happens.

 

[skyhigh]

Depends, if you know that person is a guard then it certainly sounds like they are acting in their duties.

Ah so you know that random person on the internet definitely is who they claim?

 

[Kilopylae]

There is a grey area somewhere though, even if this example isn't in it, because I think it probably would be valid to travel on the basis of e.g. a reply from a TOC's official twitter.

 

[The exile]

A poster on a local facebook group, who claims they are an "On-Train Conductor at Transport for Wales Trafnidiaeth Cymru", has stated



I would hope that would (assuming the poster isn't lying about their work) count as a defence to bylaw 18 "an authorised person gave him permission to travel without a valid ticket", but I'm sure in railway land it wouldn't be, as TfW would claim the person is not "acting in the course of his duties", despite specifically identifying that they work for TfW and have told the questioner they can board without a ticket (and indeed imply they don't need a ticket if the guard doesn't come through)

If it's a breach of internal TfW policy for an employee to make such a statement, surely that's not anything to do with the person asking for help.

Depending on the question that was actually asked, I can't see what is wrong with the statement, as there are circumstances in which you may be perfectly willing to purchase a ticket in advance but be unable to do so for reasons that are not your fault: eg. only have cash and the machine doesn't take it (or you've only got a £50 note - unlikely, but possible), the ticket you need is not available from the machine (day rangers, rovers etc). Equally, if Nantwich is not in a penalty fares area, the statement is surely perfectly correct, though it should have carried the rider that you will only be able to purchase a full undiscounted anytime single to a station directly served by the train you are on" (NCoT)

 

[AlterEgo]

There is a grey area somewhere though, even if this example isn't in it, because I think it probably would be valid to travel on the basis of e.g. a reply from a TOC's official twitter.

That’s not really a grey area at all, a TOC Twitter is an official presence. Some rando on Facebook isn’t.

 

[Kilopylae]

That’s not really a grey area at all, a TOC Twitter is an official presence. Some rando on Facebook isn’t.

Precisely my point. Somewhere between the two fairly similar things, one of which is unambiguously valid and one of which is unambiguously invalid, lies the grey area.

 

[alxndr]

Is there really a grey area though? It seems like a black and white situation to me. Either it's from an official TOC account or it's not.

 

[Surreytraveller]

That’s not really a grey area at all, a TOC Twitter is an official presence. Some rando on Facebook isn’t.

The funny thing is, the person on the Twitter account probably hasn't had any training on tickets, whereas the rando on Facebook has!

 

[AlterEgo]

The funny thing is, the person on the Twitter account probably hasn't had any training on tickets, whereas the rando on Facebook has!

People who post on TOC social media generally have received ticket training. I used to do the job!

 

[Kilopylae]

Is there really a grey area though? It seems like a black and white situation to me. Either it's from an official TOC account or it's not.

Authorised person in uniform doing a livestream?

 

[Surreytraveller]

People who post on TOC social media generally have received ticket training. I used to do the job!

I think training varies between areas

 

[Haywain]

I think training varies between areas

Whether they have or not, they are undoubtedly acting in an official capacity as representatives of the TOC.

 

[miklcct]

Even if the guard allows you to travel without a ticket, how do you get out at the other end if there are ticket barriers?

I encountered a similar situation recently. I bought tickets on TrainSplit which could only be printed on departure (ToD) as it involved cross-London travel. The ticket machine at Mill Hill Broadway couldn't spit the tickets out because I don't have the physical payment card on hand, so I went to the ticket office. The ticket office told me the computer to print ticket was malfunctioning, showing me the screen for that. The staff asked me my travel plan and I told him I was heading to St Prancas (Thameslink) to change to the tube, then he let me in. At the exit barrier I told the guard about my ticket problem and he let me out, and my ticket problem was resolved after exiting the gate at a ticket office.

I was caught out by that a few times before with unplanned disruptions that I had to buy tickets on the go. At that time, I had two payment cards in my wallet, but they all required SMS OTP authentication for online purchases on TrainSplit which is on another phone I kept home; I also had the Starling app installed on my primary phone but my physical card was kept home (the reason is to prevent complete loss of bank access in case my phone / card get lost or stolen), so I didn't have any cards on hand which could get ToD from a machine. If I planned to buy tickets on my trip, I would bring both mobile phones out.

 

[Surreytraveller]

Whether they have or not, they are undoubtedly acting in an official capacity as representatives of the TOC.

Definitely. But some of the advice you see on some Twitter accounts makes you wonder!

 

[Haywain]

Definitely. But some of the advice you see on some Twitter accounts makes you wonder!

I agree with that, but ticket office staff and (most) guards get ticket training and can also give advice that would make you wonder. At least the social media staff have the excuse of not being able to look at the ticket on most occasions!

 

[AlterEgo]

I agree with that, but ticket office staff and (most) guards get ticket training and can also give advice that would make you wonder. At least the social media staff have the excuse of not being able to look at the ticket on most occasions!

I used to always ask to see the ticket before giving detailed advice. What the customer has and what they think they have is often very different.