Rail strikes discussion

[Newone2022]

There’s a bizarre lack of self awareness in some of these posts.

Regardless of how anyone views the reasoning of the upcoming strikes I’m sure we can all agree that the vast majority of people involved in the industrial action will frown on any of their colleagues who choose to work through the strike.

To think that your colleagues will be willing to assist you with swaps of turns or annual leave is either naivety or arrogance.

Naively or not, I believe I would not hold it on anybody if it was the opposite. As said, I’m quite new and don’t have strong ties to many people yet, but the two colleagues I spoke with, support the strike and were perfectly understanding (both pretty new in here and a bit lost like I am, that must be also said).

 

[Bletchleyite]

I am meant to work a 35 hour week but don’t think I have ever done less than 45 hours despite only being allowed to book 35 on the company’s internal time sheet.

Are you opted out of the 48 hour week? If not, this could mean your employer is breaking the law, because unless you are opted out records must be kept to ensure you aren't working more than 48 hours.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Apologies if this has already been debated somewhere in the preceding 1,970 or so posts. What is the absolute latest point that any decision taken to call off the strike would need to be announced in order to avert impending disruption?

Shapps is painting himself into a corner for ideological reasons yet we have Lynch who comes across as someone they should be able to have a sensible conversation with if only the HMT would allow something nearer 5% to be offered. The members might not accept it but at least there would be basis to put something worthwhile to put to them. The longer they delay offering something the worst inflation is going to get for at least the next six months (see Bank of England forecast last week) and the higher that minimum figure is going to be. Even Lynch has clocked that and said had they offered 4-5% when pay discussions started govt would have got off lightly.

 

[londonteacher]

Hi,
Network Rail worker out of the midlands and TSSA union member.
I will be joining the strike next week in solidarity due to having no pay rise in 3 years.
I meet Mr Grant Shapps only last year and he told me thank you for working through Covid. That thank you clearly does not extent to paying my mortgage, car insurance, gas bill, child care, etc.
I am a band 4 middle manager on £38k.
I get no bonus
I get no overtime
I am meant to work a 35 hour week but don’t think I have ever done less than 45 hours despite only being allowed to book 35 on the company’s internal time sheet.

Network Rail is a dire place to work, let me explain why.
Putting to one side the lack of pay rises and high inflation (real world pay cut) the company is stale.
There is no leadership from above, nor is leadership or enterprise encouraged at any level.
It’s one big burecratic mess that encourages itself to be more bureaucratic under the guises of health and safety.

The comments from conservative mps are from people who have no understanding.
If they had any understanding they would know the first and most important thing they need to do it wipe out the top few layers of management.
From the board down to band 3 level the roles are stuffed with people who adore rule enforcement, bureaucracy, that are risk averse to anything and everything and with no entrepreneurial understanding or dna.
It’s a company destined to fail, that delights in its failures and the failures give the large group of senior management reason to exist and dream up more schemes that profit outside companies at the expense of the taxpayer while having no benefit to passengers.

A few years ago they had a company reorganisation, to make the routes more accountable!
The result? Hundreds of more senior manager roles all on between £60-£150k, all pushing more bureaucracy, less productivity and even more risk adverse.

I would like it if grant shapps and co would spend some time and understand the problem starts with leadership or rather the lack of.

Network rail is in need of a major cull, but it needs to be the large group of senior managers.
The same managers who spent this past week boasting how they are going to earn double time and a lieu day during the strikes for ‘pointing passengers where to go on a platform’.

Network Rail or Great British Railways; whatever you call it until it gets some clear leadership and entrepreneurs running the show and rid of the mass of senior managers laughing at the taxpayer, the sooner it will turn around.

But don’t worry, because next week all of us lucky enough to work on LNW route are being sent pronoun posters so we can talk woke to one another!

The same advice applies as in any job though, if you aren’t happy find a new job!

 

[ComUtoR]

both pretty new in here and a bit lost like I am, that must be also said

Ultimately, you have to do what is right for you and then accept the consequences.

If the strike is weakly supported and collapses or achieves nothing, then potentially you may have no pay rises going forward and terms and conditions enforced, rather than agreed. If the strike was strongly supported you may end up with a 10% pay rise with no strings attached.

If you decide to leave the Union or not be in it, then their services will be unavailable to you should you need them further down the line. Conversely by joining or staying in the Union, you reap the benefits of membership.

Financially, by striking, you may lose out in the short term but gain in the long term.

When it comes to work relationships, sadly, what has been said may come true. You may want the support of your colleagues at some point but they may see that you didn't support them so will turn their backs. Nobody should be threatened or cajoled but maybe this is a time where you can make friends and sit in solidarity with each other. Friendships WILL be tested and I have been told it can get pretty nasty during and after a strike.

As others have said; if you don't like the place you work or the terms of your employment, quit and find a different job. Not a road I recommend taking but its an option.

Personally I will do what I feel is right. It will be a little painful but I firmly believe that the dent in my wallet will be worth it in the years to come.

 

[eldomtom2]

Hi,
Network Rail worker out of the midlands and TSSA union member.
I will be joining the strike next week in solidarity due to having no pay rise in 3 years.

Isn't that illegal, or at least a breach of contract? The TSSA haven't struck (yet).

 

[JohntyRogers]

The same advice applies as in any job though, if you aren’t happy find a new job!

Immature argument. So according to you nobody is allowed to earn a sustainable salary. Your right let's all work 40plus hours a week and still not cover bills.

 

[HL7]

Naively or not, I believe I would not hold it on anybody if it was the opposite. As said, I’m quite new and don’t have strong ties to many people yet, but the two colleagues I spoke with, support the strike and were perfectly understanding (both pretty new in here and a bit lost like I am, that must be also said).

I fully respect your right not to join a union, although I think you should look more closely at the benefits of being a member if you find yourself involved in the disciplinary process or if you become medically unfit to continue in your present role.

That said, the reality of the situation, regardless of whether you find it discriminatory, is that many of your colleagues will treat you differently from that point. You have to assess whether thats a situation you’ll be comfortable with.

 

[londonteacher]

Immature argument. So according to you nobody is allowed to earn a sustainable salary. Your right let's all work 40plus hours a week and still not cover bills.

No I was meaning in terms of the leadership. I know that’s what I am doing this year - I’m leaving one school and Trust due to the leadership and moving to a better one.

I fully support the strikes and people earning more and thriving.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Aside from the nonsense of striking to protect job security, there seems to be no form of restructuring, no matter how outdated / unproductive something is, that the RMT will agree to without calling a strike and getting it forced on them.

Are you for real or a troll?

How is this nonsense!? Do you actually have a job? What would you do if your own job/job security was threatened....!? And the people you work with?

Oh wait, you have been asked 4-5 times now what you do for a living....

 

[High Dyke]

Hi,
Network Rail worker out of the midlands and TSSA union member.
I will be joining the strike next week in solidarity due to having no pay rise in 3 years.
I meet Mr Grant Shapps only last year and he told me thank you for working through Covid. That thank you clearly does not extent to paying my mortgage, car insurance, gas bill, child care, etc.
I am a band 4 middle manager on £38k.
I get no bonus
I get no overtime
I am meant to work a 35 hour week but don’t think I have ever done less than 45 hours despite only being allowed to book 35 on the company’s internal time sheet.

Network Rail is a dire place to work, let me explain why.
Putting to one side the lack of pay rises and high inflation (real world pay cut) the company is stale.
There is no leadership from above, nor is leadership or enterprise encouraged at any level.
It’s one big burecratic mess that encourages itself to be more bureaucratic under the guises of health and safety.

The comments from conservative mps are from people who have no understanding.
If they had any understanding they would know the first and most important thing they need to do it wipe out the top few layers of management.
From the board down to band 3 level the roles are stuffed with people who adore rule enforcement, bureaucracy, that are risk averse to anything and everything and with no entrepreneurial understanding or dna.
It’s a company destined to fail, that delights in its failures and the failures give the large group of senior management reason to exist and dream up more schemes that profit outside companies at the expense of the taxpayer while having no benefit to passengers.

A few years ago they had a company reorganisation, to make the routes more accountable!
The result? Hundreds of more senior manager roles all on between £60-£150k, all pushing more bureaucracy, less productivity and even more risk adverse.

I would like it if grant shapps and co would spend some time and understand the problem starts with leadership or rather the lack of.

Network rail is in need of a major cull, but it needs to be the large group of senior managers.
The same managers who spent this past week boasting how they are going to earn double time and a lieu day during the strikes for ‘pointing passengers where to go on a platform’.

Network Rail or Great British Railways; whatever you call it until it gets some clear leadership and entrepreneurs running the show and rid of the mass of senior managers laughing at the taxpayer, the sooner it will turn around.

But don’t worry, because next week all of us lucky enough to work on LNW route are being sent pronoun posters so we can talk woke to one another!

Well said. I know many others within Network Rail have said similar. Like you mention the route devolvement merely resulted in more managerial positions; it hasn't necessarily improved performance or staff morale. As usual many senior managers are out of touch with those who actually do the work. My own manager complains if i don't return acknowledgement slips for Periodical Operating Notices (PON's) etc, but fails to address the question that he'd never supplied them to me in the first place.

As for MP's. It's not worth wasting breath on those people. Shapps did make me laugh the other day though. The suggestion about banning staff from RDW or overtime merely gave his endorsement to 'action short of a strike'. You couldn't make it up.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Hi,
Network Rail worker out of the midlands and TSSA union member.
I will be joining the strike next week in solidarity due to having no pay rise in 3 years.
I meet Mr Grant Shapps only last year and he told me thank you for working through Covid. That thank you clearly does not extent to paying my mortgage, car insurance, gas bill, child care, etc.
I am a band 4 middle manager on £38k.
I get no bonus
I get no overtime
I am meant to work a 35 hour week but don’t think I have ever done less than 45 hours despite only being allowed to book 35 on the company’s internal time sheet.

Network Rail is a dire place to work, let me explain why.
Putting to one side the lack of pay rises and high inflation (real world pay cut) the company is stale.
There is no leadership from above, nor is leadership or enterprise encouraged at any level.
It’s one big burecratic mess that encourages itself to be more bureaucratic under the guises of health and safety.

The comments from conservative mps are from people who have no understanding.
If they had any understanding they would know the first and most important thing they need to do it wipe out the top few layers of management.
From the board down to band 3 level the roles are stuffed with people who adore rule enforcement, bureaucracy, that are risk averse to anything and everything and with no entrepreneurial understanding or dna.
It’s a company destined to fail, that delights in its failures and the failures give the large group of senior management reason to exist and dream up more schemes that profit outside companies at the expense of the taxpayer while having no benefit to passengers.

A few years ago they had a company reorganisation, to make the routes more accountable!
The result? Hundreds of more senior manager roles all on between £60-£150k, all pushing more bureaucracy, less productivity and even more risk adverse.

I would like it if grant shapps and co would spend some time and understand the problem starts with leadership or rather the lack of.

Network rail is in need of a major cull, but it needs to be the large group of senior managers.
The same managers who spent this past week boasting how they are going to earn double time and a lieu day during the strikes for ‘pointing passengers where to go on a platform’.

Network Rail or Great British Railways; whatever you call it until it gets some clear leadership and entrepreneurs running the show and rid of the mass of senior managers laughing at the taxpayer, the sooner it will turn around.

But don’t worry, because next week all of us lucky enough to work on LNW route are being sent pronoun posters so we can talk woke to one another!

Absolutely spot on but it will be nigh on impossible to row back on any of the H&S stuff in my experience. I tried for years but as you say they are so risk adverse at the top very little ever gets done even when you back it up with robust safety cases. NR day to day is costing 7B pa on top of what the operators are getting yet its protected by its CP6 settlement. Most of the voluntary severance has just been to reflect that the enhancement plan has been by and large binned.

By the way for clarity 74 people in NR are paid above 150k which as proportion of managers is the highest amongst all the arms length bodies that the govt administer. To be fair to Andrew Haines his salary was less than his predecessor. See https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/senior-officials-high-earners-salaries

 

[Norm_D_Ploom]

Can someone explain to me who in the end pays for all of these pay rises that are being requested.

Ultimately us, the tax payers

 

[ar10642]

Are you for real or a troll?

How is this nonsense!? Do you actually have a job? What would you do if your own job/job security was threatened....!? And the people you work with?

The answer is for 99% of jobs out there, nothing. If the employer wants rid of you, you're gone. That's probably why the majority of people can't relate to unions, strikes, "scabs" and all that.

 

[Newone2022]

Ultimately, you have to do what is right for you and then accept the consequences.

If the strike is weakly supported and collapses or achieves nothing, then potentially you may have no pay rises going forward and terms and conditions enforced, rather than agreed. If the strike was strongly supported you may end up with a 10% pay rise with no strings attached.

If you decide to leave the Union or not be in it, then their services will be unavailable to you should you need them further down the line. Conversely by joining or staying in the Union, you reap the benefits of membership.

Financially, by striking, you may lose out in the short term but gain in the long term.

When it comes to work relationships, sadly, what has been said may come true. You may want the support of your colleagues at some point but they may see that you didn't support them so will turn their backs. Nobody should be threatened or cajoled but maybe this is a time where you can make friends and sit in solidarity with each other. Friendships WILL be tested and I have been told it can get pretty nasty during and after a strike.

As others have said; if you don't like the place you work or the terms of your employment, quit and find a different job. Not a road I recommend taking but its an option.

Personally I will do what I feel is right. It will be a little painful but I firmly believe that the dent in my wallet will be worth it in the years to come.

Agree with some of the rest, but not at all with this. I like the terms of my employment and my place of work. Nobody should need to quit a workplace because things get “pretty nasty”.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Ultimately us, the tax payers

well in the case of train travel they have the option to recover it through ticket prices rather than the taxpayer

 

[142blue]

Can someone explain to me who in the end pays for all of these pay rises that are being requested.

You and all the Daily Mail reading tax payers

 

[windingroad]

Agree with some of the rest, but not at all with this. I like the terms of my employment and my place of work. Nobody should need to quit a workplace because things get “pretty nasty”.

I'm really struggling to understand your position here. You seem like a pleasant enough person and there's no reason why you shouldn't have a happy and healthy career on the railways. Why risk that to make a stand against something (ie. the strike) that frankly you don't seem to have much of a problem with, beyond it feeling a bit confrontational? I'd go further and suggest you actually join the union, because at least then you can exercise your democratic right to vote against action you think is unnecessary.

I do agree that you shouldn't be subject to things getting "nasty", but why allow that situation to arise? Is this really the hill to die on? What will you say if one of your colleagues asks why you accepted any pay deal that is negotiated, but knowingly undermined the strike?

 

[Norm_D_Ploom]

well in the case of train travel they have the option to recover it through ticket prices rather than the taxpayer

Which makes rail travel less attractive, which leads to lower passenger numbers, less recovery through fares and a requirement for greater subsidy.

 

[js1000]

As a passenger it's difficult to have much sympathy when the taxpayer bailed out the rail industry through Covid. Even now passengers numbers are only 75% of what they were so it's understandable Network Rail want to trim operating costs as appropriate.

On a separate point I honestly believe the RMT and railway workers have bitten off more than they can chew and there is an element of turkeys voting for Christmas. All that will happen is ticket office closures and increased automation on trains will be turbocharged by the government.

A few years ago passengers were highly supportive of keeping guards on trains and manned ticket office. But that will be blown to bits now. So congratulations to the unions and railway workers. Although I appreciate you have your grievances, we all do with our job, this action does appear unreasonable.

 

[ar10642]

well in the case of train travel they have the option to recover it through ticket prices rather than the taxpayer

The prices are already ridiculously high

 

[The Planner]

Hi,
Network Rail worker out of the midlands and TSSA union member.
I will be joining the strike next week in solidarity due to having no pay rise in 3 years.
I meet Mr Grant Shapps only last year and he told me thank you for working through Covid. That thank you clearly does not extent to paying my mortgage, car insurance, gas bill, child care, etc.
I am a band 4 middle manager on £38k.
I get no bonus
I get no overtime
I am meant to work a 35 hour week but don’t think I have ever done less than 45 hours despite only being allowed to book 35 on the company’s internal time sheet.

Network Rail is a dire place to work, let me explain why.
Putting to one side the lack of pay rises and high inflation (real world pay cut) the company is stale.
There is no leadership from above, nor is leadership or enterprise encouraged at any level.
It’s one big burecratic mess that encourages itself to be more bureaucratic under the guises of health and safety.

The comments from conservative mps are from people who have no understanding.
If they had any understanding they would know the first and most important thing they need to do it wipe out the top few layers of management.
From the board down to band 3 level the roles are stuffed with people who adore rule enforcement, bureaucracy, that are risk averse to anything and everything and with no entrepreneurial understanding or dna.
It’s a company destined to fail, that delights in its failures and the failures give the large group of senior management reason to exist and dream up more schemes that profit outside companies at the expense of the taxpayer while having no benefit to passengers.

A few years ago they had a company reorganisation, to make the routes more accountable!
The result? Hundreds of more senior manager roles all on between £60-£150k, all pushing more bureaucracy, less productivity and even more risk adverse.

I would like it if grant shapps and co would spend some time and understand the problem starts with leadership or rather the lack of.

Network rail is in need of a major cull, but it needs to be the large group of senior managers.
The same managers who spent this past week boasting how they are going to earn double time and a lieu day during the strikes for ‘pointing passengers where to go on a platform’.

Network Rail or Great British Railways; whatever you call it until it gets some clear leadership and entrepreneurs running the show and rid of the mass of senior managers laughing at the taxpayer, the sooner it will turn around.

But don’t worry, because next week all of us lucky enough to work on LNW route are being sent pronoun posters so we can talk woke to one another!

You can book more than 35 hours on Oracle if you have a code to book against.

 

[HL7]

As a passenger it's difficult to have much sympathy when the taxpayer bailed out the rail industry through Covid. Even now passengers numbers are only 75% of what they were so it's understandable Network Rail want to trim operating costs as appropriate.

On a separate point I honestly believe the RMT and railway workers have bitten off more than they can chew and there is an element of turkeys voting for Christmas. All that will happen is ticket office closures and increased automation on trains will be turbocharged by the government.

A few years ago passengers were highly supportive of keeping guards on trains and manned ticket office. But that will be blown to bits now. So congratulations to the unions and railway workers. Although I appreciate you have your grievances, we all do with our job, this action does appear unreasonable.

The taxpayer bailed out millions of people through covid. Should anyone who was furloughed be banned from getting a pay rise? How about giving them a separate tax code so that they can give some of that cash back given that they would likely have been laid off otherwise?

 

[ar10642]

The taxpayer bailed out millions of people through covid. Should anyone who was furloughed be banned from getting a pay rise? How about giving them a separate tax code so that they can give some of that cash back given that they would likely have been laid off otherwise?

I think I would have rather been driving trains full of fresh air around than stuck at home trying to find a new job on furlough thanks.

 

[Christmas]

Hi,
Network Rail worker out of the midlands and TSSA union member.
I will be joining the strike next week in solidarity due to having no pay rise in 3 years.
I meet Mr Grant Shapps only last year and he told me thank you for working through Covid. That thank you clearly does not extent to paying my mortgage, car insurance, gas bill, child care, etc.
I am a band 4 middle manager on £38k.
I get no bonus
I get no overtime
I am meant to work a 35 hour week but don’t think I have ever done less than 45 hours despite only being allowed to book 35 on the company’s internal time sheet.

Network Rail is a dire place to work, let me explain why.
Putting to one side the lack of pay rises and high inflation (real world pay cut) the company is stale.
There is no leadership from above, nor is leadership or enterprise encouraged at any level.
It’s one big burecratic mess that encourages itself to be more bureaucratic under the guises of health and safety.

The comments from conservative mps are from people who have no understanding.
If they had any understanding they would know the first and most important thing they need to do it wipe out the top few layers of management.
From the board down to band 3 level the roles are stuffed with people who adore rule enforcement, bureaucracy, that are risk averse to anything and everything and with no entrepreneurial understanding or dna.
It’s a company destined to fail, that delights in its failures and the failures give the large group of senior management reason to exist and dream up more schemes that profit outside companies at the expense of the taxpayer while having no benefit to passengers.

A few years ago they had a company reorganisation, to make the routes more accountable!
The result? Hundreds of more senior manager roles all on between £60-£150k, all pushing more bureaucracy, less productivity and even more risk adverse.

I would like it if grant shapps and co would spend some time and understand the problem starts with leadership or rather the lack of.

Network rail is in need of a major cull, but it needs to be the large group of senior managers.
The same managers who spent this past week boasting how they are going to earn double time and a lieu day during the strikes for ‘pointing passengers where to go on a platform’.

Network Rail or Great British Railways; whatever you call it until it gets some clear leadership and entrepreneurs running the show and rid of the mass of senior managers laughing at the taxpayer, the sooner it will turn around.

But don’t worry, because next week all of us lucky enough to work on LNW route are being sent pronoun posters so we can talk woke to one another!

It was all going well there until you spoiled it with your last sentence. It was interesting to get an insight from someone who is actually involved but making light of gender and mocking your employer's attempt at making people feel included and wanted in their workplace is frankly pathetic.

I'd suggest that you are not there type of person who should be managing others if you go around accusing everyone of being woke simply for not being one of the lads.

 

[HL7]

I think I would have rather been driving trains full of fresh air around than stuck at home trying to find a new job on furlough thanks.

Me too, but that wasn’t the question.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

What if your hospital does not have sufficient facilities to change?

Eh...!? Which hospital is that then....?

Ok, so community nurses travel in uniform but they're unlikely to be working late at night and travelling on trains for the purposes of their job

 

[LOL The Irony]

In some ways yes, but I think that’d require far more lower & middle management to up their game considerably, as opposed to a tendency to sit back quietly & allow Union reps to effectively run almost the entire show on their behalf.

I don't disagree with you.

Regardless of how anyone views the reasoning of the upcoming strikes I’m sure we can all agree that the vast majority of people involved in the industrial action will frown on any of their colleagues who choose to work through the strike.

To think that your colleagues will be willing to assist you with swaps of turns or annual leave is either naivety or arrogance.

So it's ok to look down upon non union members? You expect them to strike with you or you'll treat them like dirt? Once again, sounds like a cult if that is indeed your view of this.

although I think you should look more closely at the benefits of being a member if you find yourself involved in the disciplinary process or if you become medically unfit to continue in your present role.

The benefits of joining a place that calls everyone brother and sister in a totally not weird or creepy way? If I was in this industry, I'd take my chances at the disciplinary hearing.

 

[800001]

Driving in reverse is already happening at Paddington on the new Elizabeth line!

No it isn’t.
The trains automatically drives it self forward to the sidings, whilst the driver is walking through train changing ends.
The train then drives itself forward back towards the station for its next working.

 

[HL7]

So it's ok to look down upon non union members? You expect them to strike with you or you'll treat them like dirt? Once again, sounds like a cult if that is indeed your view of this.

Im only pointing out the realities of what is likely to happen when the industrial action is over. Telling the poster everything will be fine and their colleagues will respect their decision is only lulling them into a false sense of security.

The benefits of joining a place that calls everyone brother and sister in a totally not weird or creepy way? If I was in this industry, I'd take my chances at the disciplinary hearing.

In 20 years working in various roles in the railway as a member of both the RMT and Aslef I’ve yet to be called brother or sister, neither have I addressed a colleague as such.

Your chances at a disciplinary hearing will likely be vastly improved with union representation and leverage.