Rail strikes discussion

[43096]

Well then, given this comment, I’m sure you’ll agree with me that it’s high time tax payers and fare payers were stopped expecting to fund the profits of ROSCOs?

The ROSCOs are entitled to make a profit, you know. But there are aspects of the cost increase that are down to the way new trains are funded: generally they relate to the way they were procured (Thameslink and the IEP fleets in particular), which was done in the most expensive way possible.

You won’t, of course, because that doesn’t suit your (glaringly obvious) agenda of citing faux concern about costs to attack unions trying to get cleaners a modest pay rise.

Ah, rather than debating the issue you do as you usually do with my posts and make it personal.

Must be easy for you to show concern for your fellow workers when you're sat around being paid as you're not on strike, letting others fight the battle for the highest paid members of staff.

 

[LoogaBarooga]

It’s times like Sunday evening, when the guard at Gloucester locked himself in the back ex first class, closed all curtains in the section (not very well as I could see in) and plopped himself in a seat with his feet on the opposite one, scrolling through his phone while us freezing passengers stood on the dark platform until five minutes before… when said guard finally let us on, stayed in the cab pretty much the entire time, thanks to him fiddling with the first class doors earlier they broke and trapped someone on the train, and it really is times like that when I think - and the reason the whole country’s railway is closing is down to these people’s refusal to accept an “insufficient” payrise.

With all respect intended, and acceptance it’s a rare case and with not all knowledge, I’m just saying things like this really, really rub salt into the wound.

Freezing passengers? In June? You're at it.

 

[jayah]

If people start using language like 'scab', then I'm pretty sure this will go the same way. Outdated class hatred won't get anyone anywhere.

They already are.

 

[dave4jackie]

Why are not all atoc‘s on strike, also how can some trains run when network rail are on strike, I know merseyrail are not running trains and they are one of the tocs not on strike

 

[Efini92]

Also I suspect you shouldn't need to worry too much about a driver strike happening as our grade is more and more afflicted by Boris loving Tory types more worried about the few hundred refugees entering the country per year than worrying about the man on the streets wages or plight. I strongly suspect drivers will vote no to strikes....

I’d be very surprised if any of the tocs that are about to be balloted vote no.

 

[dk1]

Why are not all atoc‘s on strike, also how can some trains run when network rail are on strike, I know merseyrail are not running trains and they are one of the tocs not on strike

Certain managers man the power boxes. As they are not a full compliment only limited services are permitted to operate.

 

[yorksrob]

If you don't know or care who caused it, how can it be self-inflicted? Who was doing the inflicting, exactly?

I seem to recall Mr Cortez (of the TSSA union) agitating for the Government to tell people not to use the trains for some time after the first lockdown.

 

[dave4jackie]

Certain managers man the power boxes. As they are not a full compliment only limited services are permitted to operate.

But what happens if the is a point’s failure sure managers can’t fix that

 

[Efini92]

yes, and don’t I know about it. However that is besides the point, I was asking the poster I was responding to if they would do so. I notice there is no reply yet.



evidence?




that is not correct, and is a highly slanted view of the video. The extra pay and day off in lieu applies to those volunteers from outside the general grades who are rostered as contingent staff

it does not apply to general grade staff who choose to break the strike.

Would you not consider those volunteers to be strike breakers?

 

[windingroad]

I seem to recall Mr Cortez (of the TSSA union) agitating for the Government to tell people not to use the trains for some time after the first lockdown.

And why is that relevant to the railway workers going on strike? Are they Mr Cortez of the TSSA union?

 

[dk1]

But what happens if the is a point’s failure sure managers can’t fix that

Signallers would never do that anyway. No doubt there will be a limited cover available by pway/S&T staff.

 

[yorksrob]

And why is that relevant to the railway workers going on strike? Are they Mr Cortez of the TSSA union?

A poster posited that the railway didn't wholeheartedly welcome back passengers after the lock down and you asked for an example.

That is an example I noted at the time.

 

[windingroad]

A poster posited that the railway didn't wholeheartedly welcome back passengers after the lock down and you asked for an example.

That is an example I noted at the time.

What I'm objecting to is this constant talk of "the railway" as a monolith. The vast, vast majority of the people striking had absolutely no influence on any of this stuff, so it feels very unfair to expect them to take the blame for it, if any blame needs to be apportioned.

 

[yorksrob]

What I'm objecting to is this constant talk of "the railway" as a monolith. The vast, vast majority of the people striking had absolutely no influence on any of this stuff, so it feels very unfair to expect them to take the blame for it, if any blame needs to be apportioned.

Maybe, but that's one example where employee representatives were contributing to the situation, rather than the management.

 

[miami]

No, but Cardiff to Heathrow is not out of the question, albeit it isn't cheap and doesn't run at a particularly convenient time.

Shame there isn't a seaprate practical thread while people go on about the rights and wrongs.

Will the Reading-Heathrow RailAir service still be running during the strikes? Hoping to travel Heathrow to Reading on the Saturday (25th) evening

 

[Bald Rick]

But what happens if the is a point’s failure sure managers can’t fix that

of course they do!

one of my friends is a manager, who knows more about how points work (and track circuits, treadles, signals, etc etc) than pretty much anyone else. Years ago he regularly used to get calls from the front line saying “can’t work this one out guv” and he’d have it sorted in no time.

 

[Butts]

Shame there isn't a seaprate practical thread while people go on about the rights and wrongs.

Will the Reading-Heathrow RailAir service still be running during the strikes? Hoping to travel Heathrow to Reading on the Saturday (25th) evening

And the Heathrow Express ?

 

[JonathanH]

And the Heathrow Express ?

Heathrow Express is as affected by the strikes as any other service on the National Rail Network - ie limited hours on the strike days.
https://www.heathrowexpress.com/timetable/planned-service-disruption

Will the Reading-Heathrow RailAir service still be running during the strikes? Hoping to travel Heathrow to Reading on the Saturday (25th) evening

Very little reason why this shouldn't be running.

 

[Kite159]

Heathrow Express is as affected by the strikes as any other service on the National Rail Network - ie limited hours on the strike days.
https://www.heathrowexpress.com/timetable/planned-service-disruption


Very little reason why this shouldn't be running.

If anything I suspect it will be busier than usual with passengers going towards Heathrow to carry on towards London via the Underground or on buses.

 

[Iskra]

Why do you keep referring to "the railway" as if it's the Borg? The people who are striking are not responsible for any of the things you are citing, and they should not be punished for these imaginary infractions.

They aren’t being punished, you’re imagining that. But, it does explain why there might not be a justification for increasing the wage bill based on the reduction of fare income over the last couple of years while costs have probably remained fairly constant. The railway does not operate in a vacuum.

 

[Need2]

TT-ONR-NRN said:
and the reason the whole country’s railway is closing is down to these people’s refusal to accept an “insufficient” payrise.

When you have finised your studies, I hope your job pays you what you want!

 

[43066]

The ROSCOs are entitled to make a profit, you know. But there are aspects of the cost increase that are down to the way new trains are funded: generally they relate to the way they were procured (Thameslink and the IEP fleets in particular), which was done in the most expensive way possible.

I can agree with all of that. I fully appreciate that ROSCOs are doing no more than exploiting their commercial position for the benefit of the shareholders, just as they should. My criticism is more how we have ended up with a system where the taxpayer underwrites significant ROSCO profits, while that utter see-you-next-Tuesday Shapps plays political football with the Ts and Cs of low paid staff.

Ah, rather than debating the issue you do as you usually do with my posts and make it personal.

Must be easy for you to show concern for your fellow workers when you're sat around being paid as you're not on strike, letting others fight the battle for the highest paid members of staff.

How exactly do you expect me to be on strike when I’ve not even been balloted? My time will come no doubt (not that I have any desire to strike, but will of course do as my union instructs).

I have no wish to make this personal and frankly would much prefer to debate facts. Unfortunately you yourself have gone way beyond factual discussion by making many postings which are clearly intended to insult, belittle and goad railway staff. Whether you do this just to get a reaction, or you genuinely despise railway workers as a group, I have no idea.

You’re clearly knowledgable and your posts are well written. Perhaps if you dropped the relentless digs at staff we would all get on rather better? Just a thought .

 

[Bald Rick]

Would you not consider those volunteers to be strike breakers?

no, because they haven’t been asked to strike.

 

[Horizon22]

Sorry, but you’ll need to point me to the legislation that mandated an alcohol ban and compulsory reservations please, when other industries (and even other TOC’s) were getting back to normal. If it was DFT mandated, surely we would have seen a consistent approach? Elements of the railway continued to unnecessarily deter income post-lockdown, while hoovering up vast sums of public subsidy. That is a fact, and subsequently the railway cannot use reduced income due to the pandemic as an excuse, when it perpetuated the situation.

As I said some; you appear to have a gripe with a particular TOC(s). Again, I'm not trying to make an excuse but wilfully using one of the lowest figures for passenger numbers in over a century to explain why the sector "just made £4 billion from fares" when the railway was told to do certain things and was by far the only industry affected by lockdowns and social distancing (a key part of why compulsory reservations became a thing) is rather disingeneous.

 

[Bald Rick]

was by far the only industry affected by lockdowns and social distancing

that’s a bit of a stretch!

(Hospitality says ‘hello!’)

 

[Efini92]

no, because they haven’t been asked to strike.

But the definition of a strike breaker is someone brought in to do the job whilst the workers are on strike.

 

[Bald Rick]

But the definition of a strike breaker is someone brought in to do the job whilst the workers are on strike.

that might be your definition. I disagree.

 

[gabrielhj07]

Strike breaker: a person who works or is employed in place of others who are on strike, thereby making the strike ineffectual.

 

[43096]

I can agree with all of that. I fully appreciate that ROSCOs are doing no more than exploiting their commercial position for the benefit of the shareholders, just as they should. My criticism is more how we have ended up with a system where the taxpayer underwrites significant ROSCO profits, while that utter see-you-next-Tuesday Shapps plays political football with the Ts and Cs of low paid staff.

The ROSCO structure of course became a necessity once privatisation had decided letting 7 year contracts to operators was the way forward and squaring that with 35 year life assets meant some way of handing stock on and was needed. To be fair to the ROSCOs they've financed a lot of new stock that a publicly-owned BR/whatever would never have done to the same level - it's essentially a source of off-Government-balance-sheet financing.

What I would also say is that the ROSCO concept has been used successfully for many years in wagon leasing and more recently for passenger stock and locomotives on mainland Europe, including by the nationalised operators.

How exactly do you expect me to be on strike when I’ve not even been balloted? My time will come no doubt (not that I have any desire to strike, but will of course do as my union instructs).

I have no wish to make this personal and frankly would much prefer to debate facts. Unfortunately you yourself have gone way beyond factual discussion by making many postings which are clearly intended to insult, belittle and goad railway staff. Whether you do this just to get a reaction, or you genuinely despise railway workers as a group, I have no idea.

You’re clearly knowledgable and your posts are well written. Perhaps if you dropped the relentless digs at staff we would all get on rather better? Just a thought .

I have nothing against the staff.

Likewise, you need to drop the digs - what prompted your latest response was after I posted a summary of the railway's financial position. I then made a comment that it showed how the railway was badly run financially. No mention of staff. You were the one who jumped in with the personal stuff rather addressing the facts I presented. To borrow a football phrase, you need to play the ball rather than the man.

 

[43066]

Would you not consider those volunteers to be strike breakers?

no, because they haven’t been asked to strike.

It’s a difficult one isn’t it.

I personally have no issue with “strike breakers” who are doing so as part of their job. The most obvious example being guard managers working trains during a guard dispute, as will be happening next week (or for that matter drivers continuing to drive trains, as I’ll be doing myself next week!).

But volunteering to do a completely different job to your own for a few extra quid, undermining strikers? I find that a pretty revolting way to behave. You’re effectively stealing someone else’s living from them.