Ravensthorpe to Heaton Lodge rationalisation under British Rail

[superkev]

Moderator note: Split from https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...upgrade-and-electrification-updates-cp6.88054

Certainly the ongoing failure by government to provide a clear direction on long term investment is a strategic problem. But 'red tape' and 'can't do culture' are rather vague 'go to' phrases which don't mean much. The electrification schemes you mention are likely slowed by a deliberate decision by Network Rail to ensure an active electrification programme is maintained while the government dithers.

It would be interesting to know how long it took British Railways (was it in the 70s) when they reduced the workable Ravensthorpe to Heaton lodge 4 tracks with 70mph double track flyunder for both fast lines at Heaton lodge to the current 3.
K

 

[quantinghome]

It would be interesting to know how long it took British Railways (was it in the 70s) when they reduced the workable Ravensthorpe to Heaton lodge 4 tracks with 70mph double track flyunder for both fast lines at Heaton lodge to the current 3.
K

There were a whole lot of 4 track sections in and around West Yorkshire which we reduced to 2 or 3 tracks through the 70s and 80s. Must admit I'm pretty hazy on the details, and it looks like information is hard to come by compared to , say, closed stations, where we know the exact date they were shut.

 

[macka]

There were a whole lot of 4 track sections in and around West Yorkshire which we reduced to 2 or 3 tracks through the 70s and 80s. Must admit I'm pretty hazy on the details, and it looks like information is hard to come by compared to , say, closed stations, where we know the exact date they were shut.

South Yorkshire too, notably the Dore-Sheffield section where a flyunder just south of Sheffield station was removed. I think most of these reductions were done as part of resignalling schemes with signal box closures and BR would have been under severe pressure to cut costs in a period of declining passenger and freight numbers, though some of the tracks may have already been abandoned before the resignalling were completed.

 

[edwin_m]

It would be interesting to know how long it took British Railways (was it in the 70s) when they reduced the workable Ravensthorpe to Heaton lodge 4 tracks with 70mph double track flyunder for both fast lines at Heaton lodge to the current 3.
K

Later than that. I walked it with the local civil engineer in as a graduate trainee in 1988 and it was pretty new then. Remember being warned about the dangers of the middle track being bi-directional (effectively a diamond crossing a couple of miles long - disaster for capacity!). However it did speed up Heaton Lodge quite a bit, in fact I'm not sure they even used the diveunder before that as it was originally the start of the Leeds New line.

 

[Brooke]

Later than that. I walked it with the local civil engineer in as a graduate trainee in 1988 and it was pretty new then. Remember being warned about the dangers of the middle track being bi-directional (effectively a diamond crossing a couple of miles long - disaster for capacity!). However it did speed up Heaton Lodge quite a bit, in fact I'm not sure they even used the diveunder before that as it was originally the start of the Leeds New line.

Yes, I think mid-1980s - I guess 1985-87 ish. If my memory’s not wrong it happened after Thornhill power station shut (1982-83 ish), amongst other things.

 

[fishwomp]

Later than that. I walked it with the local civil engineer in as a graduate trainee in 1988 and it was pretty new then. Remember being warned about the dangers of the middle track being bi-directional (effectively a diamond crossing a couple of miles long - disaster for capacity!). However it did speed up Heaton Lodge quite a bit, in fact I'm not sure they even used the diveunder before that as it was originally the start of the Leeds New line.

The dive-under was in use - double track and wasn't particularly fast in either direction - in the early 80s. The curve currently used by Westbound services did not exist.

https://www.britainsbiggestmodelrailway.com/index.php#About is your best place to see what it was really like.

In ~1988, the whole system was reduced to 3 track between Heaton Lodge Jct and LNW Jct (Ravensthorpe) - so four tracking this bit should not be too hard.

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

Singling the dive-under at Heaton Lodge did at least allow for the remaining track to be slewed and thus allow an increased linespeed. This also allowed eastbound trains to get a run up the subsequent climb to the junction itself. A small timesaving for all trains. Given the prevailing trends in traffic it was doubtless a good decision at the time.

 

[alistairlees]

The changes to three tracks were in late 1985 or 1986, I am fairly sure.

Before the changes then, if you were coming from Huddersfield (and travelling east):
- a single track led off towards Brighouse at Bradley Jct (as now)
- the double track split into two double tracks, with the northern pair being used for passenger services and using the dive-under to get to Heaton Lodge Jct; and the southern pair using the now westbound alignment to join the Calder valley lines west of Heaton Lodge Jct
- all four tracks then ran in parallel through Mirfield (served only by the northern pair) before reaching Thornton LNW Jct, where the northern pair split with two carrying on to Healey Mills, and two going into Ravensthorpe Station; the southern pair also went into Healey Mills (so there were four tracks to there), and there was also a double track crossover from the southern to the northern pair before Thoronton LNW, so traffic from the southern pair could get to Leeds
- west of Heaton Lodge Jct, and on the Calder valley line, the two pairs continued for a short distance before merging into just double track (before they were joined by the previously mentioned chord from Bradley Jct)

 

[YorksLad12]

- the double track split into two double tracks, with the northern pair being used for passenger services and using the dive-under to get to Heaton Lodge Jct; and the southern pair using the now westbound alignment to join the Calder valley lines west of Heaton Lodge Jct
- all four tracks then ran in parallel through Mirfield (served only by the northern pair) before reaching Thornton LNW Jct, where the northern pair split with two carrying on to Healey Mills, and two going into Ravensthorpe Station; the southern pair also went into Healey Mills (so there were four tracks to there), and there was also a double track crossover from the southern to the northern pair before Thoronton LNW, so traffic from the southern pair could get to Leeds

Is this effectively what's going to happen in the project? Slow lines via a re-doubled diveunder, fast lines via a re-doubled southern curve? It's the only bit between Huddersfield and Ravensthorpe I'm a bit vague on.

 

[alistairlees]

Is this effectively what's going to happen in the project? Slow lines via a re-doubled diveunder, fast lines via a re-doubled southern curve? It's the only bit between Huddersfield and Ravensthorpe I'm a bit vague on.

Up to 1985 or so the northern pair were passenger; the southern pair freight (except when there were diversions).

 

[Gloster]

There is a pdf of an Operating Notice, including a diagram, for work in 1970 on the Signalling Record Society’s site. (I can’t do a link, but it was the second item when searching heaton lodge signal box on google.)

 

[D6130]

There is a pdf of an Operating Notice, including a diagram, for work in 1970 on the Signalling Record Society’s site. (I can’t do a link, but it was the second item when searching heaton lodge signal box on google.)

Of course this was the section of line which was resignalled by the LMS company in 1932 with the experimental 'speed signals', which advised drivers at what speed they could travel through connections and crossovers - in the continental way - rather than giving a geographical indication of the direction in which the train was to travel. This system remained in use until the extension of Healey Mills power signalbox to cover the Thornhill/Mirfield/Heaton Lodge/Brighouse area in 1970. One of the speed signals has been preserved in the Keighley & Worth Valley Railway's museum at Oxenhope.

 

[Taunton]

Of course this was the section of line which was resignalled by the LMS company in 1932 with the experimental 'speed signals', which advised drivers at what speed they could travel through connections and crossovers - in the continental way - rather than giving a geographical indication of the direction in which the train was to travel. This system remained in use until the extension of Healey Mills power signalbox to cover the Thornhill/Mirfield/Heaton Lodge/Brighouse area in 1970. One of the speed signals has been preserved in the Keighley & Worth Valley Railway's museum at Oxenhope.

To be precise, it was the USA way, and the equipment was supplied from there. We have discussed the Mirfield Speed Signalling (as it was commonly known) in the past here. In addition, there is one of the signal masts in York museum. Despite the novel signalling, all the mechancial signalboxes were retained. Here's a short description; the article says May 1970 for the signalling changeover when this 1932 scheme was replaced with normal 4-aspect signalling, which one would expect to coincide with the track changes :

LMS Speed Signalling – The Signal Box

signalbox.org

 

[D6130]

May 1970 for the signalling changeover when this 1932 scheme was replaced with normal 4-aspect signalling, which one would expect to coincide with the track changes :

IIRC, the 1970 resignalling scheme retained the four track layout, but with a different junction configuration at Heaton Lodge. The reduction to three tracks took place about 15-18 years later.

 

[L+Y]

Another couple of West Yorkshire area enquiries from me: hopefully I'm not going wildly off track!

What were the dates of rationalisation on the Leeds-Shipley lines? I've seen photos that suggest there were still some short four track sections around Shipley into the late 1970s?

And how about Neville Hill- Cross Gates?

 

[unslet]

Neville Hill to Cross Gates reduced to double track in 1968.

 

[gimmea50anyday]

For anyone that plays Train Simulator World on PlayStation 4/5 or X-Box the transpennine route featured has the 1980s 4 track layout in full. Its a very interesting contrast compared to the layout today. No Cotingley or Deighton stations, Mirfield has only 2 platforms, No west curve at Heaton Lodge, the route to Bradford that passes under at Ravensthorpe still exists. They are the ones I can think of from the top of my head so far. Fascinating!

 

[alistairlees]

For anyone that plays Train Simulator World on PlayStation 4/5 or X-Box the transpennine route featured has the 1980s 4 track layout in full. Its a very interesting contrast compared to the layout today. No Cotingley or Deighton stations, Mirfield has only 2 platforms, No west curve at Heaton Lodge, the route to Bradford that passes under at Ravensthorpe still exists. They are the ones I can think of from the top of my head so far. Fascinating!

That does not sound correct.

 

[D6130]

That does not sound correct.

In what respect?

 

[gimmea50anyday]

The main line uses the dive under at Heaton Lodge in both directions, today only the down uses it

I stand corrected, Heaton Lodge does have a west curve (well at least on the game it does) but there’s no through line at Dewsbury…..

 

[alistairlees]

The main line uses the dive under at Heaton Lodge in both directions, today only the down uses it

I stand corrected, Heaton Lodge does have a west curve (well at least on the game it does) but there’s no through line at Dewsbury…..

There was no through line at Dewsbury in the 1980s.

In what respect?

In respect that there was both a "west curve" (off the southerly freight lines) and the dive unders (off the northerly passenger lines) at Heaton Lodge, to get to Huddersfield, in the 1980s.

 

[gimmea50anyday]

The Transpennine route for TrainSim World is based on 1980’s BR era. Class 46 and 47 locos on a rake of mk2s and class 101 dmus feature as the traction. As this thread is about the route in the 1980s as I have mentioned above it is interesting to compare the sim with todays layout which I sign