Yep. They aren’t mutually exclusive - wanting fewer restrictions and wanting to enforce those you do have.
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Reduction in social gatherings.
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Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Indeed, while I have little time for Boris my general view is towards a small body of law which is easy to comply with, simple, understandable and is enforced reasonably strictly, with each piece of legislation intended to protect people from the bad or negligent acts of others and never solely from themselves. Not involving water cannon, to be fair.
Nothing like the assorted coronavirus laws, then...
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Indeed not.
I've just discovered one incidental advantage of the rule of 6: the bottle of champagne I ordered for our birthday lunch today for a 90-year old friend neatly filled 6 flutes. It seems the over-70s are determined to get out and enjoy dining out while they can, as there were 3 other tables occupied besides ours (by 3 groups of 4 ladies), and to judge from appearances I think I was the youngest in the room at 72. Our table had a 92 year old, the 90 year old, an 89 year old, 84, 79 and 72. Who said anything about shielding?
Only the USA has a higher level of international travel than the UK.
From what I've read, we had a lot of infected people come back from ski-ing holidays who started spreading it. But so did Sweden.
I would have thought this sort of thing rather messes up attempts to calculate R but maybe at that point we didn't have enough information to do so anyway.
How many is a lot though - there aren’t that many Swedes and they have their own skiing!
Skimpot flyer
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Don’t post this on social media, for God’s sake.
You’ll get people screaming ‘They’re killing young people!!!’
Don’t post this on social media, for God’s sake.
You’ll get people screaming ‘They’re killing young people!!!’
Yes, let's just close down pubs/swimming pools/places of worship/shops/the economy/ anything else you would care to mention in order to stop the dreaded killer virus. (and satisfy Karen from Facebook as well)
Because obviously we have to do something in response to increasing infection rates, this is something, therefore we have to do it.
Well indeed and without knowing that sort of thing I think it's difficult to make a comparison.
Apologies if this isn't necessarily the right topic but there's another interesting YouGov poll out relating to the rule of 6. What surprised me the most was that Conservative voters seem the most likely to report someone to the police for breaking the law, including almost 1 in 10 who would 'shop' immediate family. Context about online polls not being accurate apply but this was a full poll - fieldwork here
Bantamzen
Established Member
Interesting, probably unsurprisingly strangers are most likely to be dobbed in but the friends & family numbers are higher than I'd think. I suspect if some of these people do dob their nearest & dearest in, they are going to lead sad, lonely lives from thereon in.
I refer you to the comment in the original post: " Context about online polls not being accurate apply but this was a full poll - fieldwork here "
Baxenden Bank
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The Tories are, after all, the party of law and order! It's just that the leadership seem to have conveniently forgotten that whenever it is not convenient!
It's online, but it's not a snap response one or anything like a Twitter poll. The polls where they put together a representative panel of a couple of thousand people like this are the modern equivalent of the old 1000-person telephone polls. In fact are probably more reliable than telephone polling can manage now, because so few people have landlines or are willing to answer the phone to unknown numbers generally.
Grecian 1998
Member
Interesting to note Lib Dem voters are less likely to report anyone than Labour voters - except when it comes to colleagues. Clearly Labour voters have happier workplaces for some reason.
Ah yes. In a telephone poll, 100% of respondants said that they owned a telephone...
Baxenden Bank
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Depends on the exact question, and how people interpret that before responding.
Would you be concerned by ....
Would you report ....
Would you grass....
Also
if there were more than six...
if there were more than seven...
and so on.
Some people may well have a different answer if they knew seven people were gathered (let it slide) compared to 70 being gathered.
The recent survey about employers and their employees returning to work was potentially just as flawed.
Will your employees be returning to work....
Will all of your employees be returning to work....
Will an unspecified proportion of your employees be returning to work....
Will at least one of your employees be returning to work....
Never believe a promoted survey unless they show their 'workings out'.
Would you be concerned by ....
Would you report ....
Would you grass....
Also
if there were more than six...
if there were more than seven...
and so on.
Some people may well have a different answer if they knew seven people were gathered (let it slide) compared to 70 being gathered.
The recent survey about employers and their employees returning to work was potentially just as flawed.
Will your employees be returning to work....
Will all of your employees be returning to work....
Will an unspecified proportion of your employees be returning to work....
Will at least one of your employees be returning to work....
Never believe a promoted survey unless they show their 'workings out'.
brad465
Established Member
Possible suggestion for that result: this policy is being peddled by Tory politicians, especially Priti Patel, where because tribal politics is so embedded in the political landscape here there's a good chance the reason Tory voters are polling the highest is because some of them just like the politicians giving the order, so will do so on the basis they suck up to whatever is asked by those they "admire", regardless of any resultant consequences.
I can't picture even the most ardent Tory voter actually liking Priti Patel. Her message to them may have been a bit undermined by Boris of course, who today suggesting that only people sharing hot tubs should be reported and that he didn't much like this "report everything" culture.
Class 33
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I went out for a few hours this afternoon on this pleasant warm day to make the most of this warm weather whilst it lasts just a few more days, before it turns more autumnal from Wednesday. And also we could well be within the last 2 or 3 days now before we go into a bloody national lockdown again!!
Anyway I went to Warleigh Weir, which is just past Bath. A pleasant place to relax, sunbathe and swim by the River Avon.
I was a little surprised though as a number of people were ignoring "The rule of six". Seen a number of groups of young people which were more than 6 people! Some were groups of about 8, some about 12 or so, and even one group of about 20 odd people!
Anyway I went to Warleigh Weir, which is just past Bath. A pleasant place to relax, sunbathe and swim by the River Avon.
I was a little surprised though as a number of people were ignoring "The rule of six". Seen a number of groups of young people which were more than 6 people! Some were groups of about 8, some about 12 or so, and even one group of about 20 odd people!
Baxenden Bank
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How many are listening or paying attention anymore? Have the previous stipulations been communicated or enforced sufficiently for people to think there is a realistic chance of being caught? Hence the need for ever more draconian restrictions, headline grabbing fines (which are maximums for outrageous behavior only) and conversion of 'advice' to 'law'. The message changes frequently so it is difficult to keep up. Even the rule of six is muddled by families and bubbles.
RomeoCharlie71
Established Member
(If there's a more appropriate thread for this feel free to move it)
I was in a chain pub this evening for a meal with family - who were taking the Scottish 6 from 2 rule rather seriously.
We entered, said we were from two households, and the server on the door asked how many from each household, which was four and one. We then told her we were one extended household - one member of our party does live alone after all.
She directed us to two tables - two meters apart, and insisted that the household of 4 sat at one and the household of 1 sat at the other. These were the rules from the conference call from head office she told us. We were not told this when booking.
Rather depressing atmosphere in the whole place and fairly average food. Staff standing behind the bar gossiping not distancing. Also given a lecture on mask wearing and the tick-box one-way system before we sat down.
Needless to say the place was deserted (us and another couple). Won't be back in a hurry.
I was in a chain pub this evening for a meal with family - who were taking the Scottish 6 from 2 rule rather seriously.
We entered, said we were from two households, and the server on the door asked how many from each household, which was four and one. We then told her we were one extended household - one member of our party does live alone after all.
She directed us to two tables - two meters apart, and insisted that the household of 4 sat at one and the household of 1 sat at the other. These were the rules from the conference call from head office she told us. We were not told this when booking.
Rather depressing atmosphere in the whole place and fairly average food. Staff standing behind the bar gossiping not distancing. Also given a lecture on mask wearing and the tick-box one-way system before we sat down.
Needless to say the place was deserted (us and another couple). Won't be back in a hurry.
This is more about authoritarianism vs libertarianism, not left vs right. The "political compass" is very complex!
I definitely consider myself to be more "left" than "right" on most scales, but I am anti authoritarianism.
Obviously too much libertarianism is very bad too (go too far and you end up with anarchism, which I despise); I consider myself to be down the middle on the authoritarian vs libertarian scale, but our Government policies have become far too authoritarian for a western society, and I am deeply opposed to as well as concerned about that shift.
Personally, restricting social gatherings to 6 doesn't really affect me in any material way. However the imposition of some other restrictions is a concern, as is the way certain restrictions are implemented or enforced.
I would be extremely angry if they stopped me playing 7-a-side football though; at present this is allowed under the rules (but we would not be allowed to all go to the pub together after the game - I can accept that).
That sounds like typical authoritarianism to me; they are very keen to impose their rules on others but not so keen to do it themselves. I'd never go back there!
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bramling
Veteran Member
Yes it’s become so complex and changes so often that I think many people genuinely don’t know what applies any more. They will do what they have to do (for example wearing a mask to keep the peace) but as far as personal lives go I think many are just doing their own thing.
I am increasingly coming to the view Boris has completely lost control of this now. If he tries to bring in a draconian lockdown there will be trouble, enough people are thoroughly pissed off that they will be awkward.
The threatening tone coming from people like Hancock doesn’t help get people on side.
He doesn’t have a choice. Sounding ominous gets quite a few people to take current restrictions more seriously, and is politically free, whilst those who won’t change because he’s a bit threatening just aren’t going to change anyway - they have made their mind up and only enforcement will really change their behaviour.
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