Reflections on travel in Germany

[J-2739]

Well, however bad it is, it can't be worse than this country's fares set up.

Fares are nothing if the reliability of service is very bad.

 

[xtpe]

Well after reading the comments on here I must have been lucky as traveled for Berlin to Leipzig and back to Berlin this week and the outgoing train was two mins late and the one coming back this morning left one minute late, I don't recommend sitting in the family coach unless you like the sound of screaming children and babies, also Leipzig was such a clean beautiful city that I really enjoyed and will go back to again.

 

[Fragezeichnen]

DB Punctualityis undeniably abysmal - current figures are are 64% arrival within 5 minutes of scheduled time and 81% within 15. However, my impression is that that the main trouble spots are around Cologne and the Ruhr valley, and the Rhine Corridor down to Basel. On travels between Berlin-Dresden/Leipzig/Munich/Hannover/Frankfurt I am rarely delayed.

The ICE services to Brussels and Amsterdam due to the poor reliability of the small fleet of elderly and highly complex ICE3M trains. These should be replaced next year - even Deutsche Bahn cites poor reliability as the reason for this rather than any spiel about increased passenger comfort etc.

 

[DanielB]

Well after reading the comments on here I must have been lucky as traveled for Berlin to Leipzig and back to Berlin this week and the outgoing train was two mins late and the one coming back this morning left one minute late.

Of course you can always be lucky... I once made a trip with an itinirary including a 45 minute change in Hannover, so plenty of slack in case of delays. But obviously, in that case both the train I arrived on and the one I left with where perfectly on time.

On the way back however, a 20 minute change resulted in a stamp cancelling the Zugbindung.

The ICE services to Brussels and Amsterdam due to the poor reliability of the small fleet of elderly and highly complex ICE3M trains.

Don't expect wonders from the ICE3neo in terms of delays however. Especially the Amsterdam service is squeezed into the Dutch timetable and barely fits.
Between Utrecht and Arnhem it has to share the two available tracks with 6 domestic Intercity services per hour which already have amended times on hours an ICE runs (some have to run slightly earlier to avoid getting in the way of an ICE)

 

[Jamesrob637]

DB Punctualityis undeniably abysmal - current figures are are 64% arrival within 5 minutes of scheduled time and 81% within 15. However, my impression is that that the main trouble spots are around Cologne and the Ruhr valley, and the Rhine Corridor down to Basel. On travels between Berlin-Dresden/Leipzig/Munich/Hannover/Frankfurt I am rarely delayed.

The ICE services to Brussels and Amsterdam due to the poor reliability of the small fleet of elderly and highly complex ICE3M trains. These should be replaced next year - even Deutsche Bahn cites poor reliability as the reason for this rather than any spiel about increased passenger comfort etc.

ICE3 elderly?! They look new!

 

[185]

50 mins sat at a border station whilst zee officers checked IDs and passports?!? What's the point of Schengen?

1 hour 7 mins late. 'Happens every day - it's embarrasing', said the Polish staff.

 

[rvdborgt]

50 mins sat at a border station whilst zee officers checked IDs and passports?!? What's the point of Schengen?

Germany doesn't respect it in any case. They've failed to report these permanent full checks at Frankfurt(Oder) to the EC for about a year now, which means they're still illegal.

 

[StephenHunter]

50 mins sat at a border station whilst zee officers checked IDs and passports?!? What's the point of Schengen?

1 hour 7 mins late. 'Happens every day - it's embarrasing', said the Polish staff.

Wasn't full checks for me at Frankfurt (Oder); but it was at least five minutes.

 

[duesselmartin]

border checks are in place from Poland and Austria due to the influcts of migrants coming via those countries. Usually the Austrian check is rather efficient. The real idea of Schengen is dead since the refugee crisis.

 

[YorkshireBear]

border checks are in place from Poland and Austria due to the influcts of migrants coming via those countries. Usually the Austrian check is rather efficient. The real idea of Schengen is dead since the refugee crisis.

Is this on every train? Does it affect timetables or are the timetables built in now? Looks like Austria and Slovenia is similar.

 

[duesselmartin]

on the Brenner route is is on the move. Oddly enough the Vienna-Frankfurt trains are checked at Passau station causing usually a 15 minute delay. But then, what are 15 minutes in DB terms? Nothing!

 

[paul_munich]

DB Punctualityis undeniably abysmal - current figures are are 64% arrival within 5 minutes of scheduled time and 81% within 15.

Yes, 63,5% of long-distance trains arrived on-time last month, but overall punctuality (short and long-distance services) was 90,1% in June 2023, so it's not the catastrophe some see here...

 

[rvdborgt]

Is this on every train? Does it affect timetables or are the timetables built in now? Looks like Austria and Slovenia is similar.

The checks at e.g. Passau are not constant, so not on every train. These checks have been notified to the EC.
The checks at Frankfurt(Oder) seem to be for at least all EC trains and have not been notified to the EC.

 

[FormerBritInMe]

Wow, did Amtrak management take over DB?

A little concerned as next year we are planning a major trip which will involve going from Stockholm to Bari in Italy so I suspect going through Germany is inevitable. I will definitely plan on no tight connections.

What a change from my travels on DB in 1977 when almost every train was punctual, one exception being a 10 minute delay due to single tracking for engineering work. The staff apologized profusely for this.

 

[Fragezeichnen]

The checks at Frankfurt(Oder) seem to be for at least all EC trains and have not been notified to the EC.

I took an EC from Poznan to Berlin last week and to my surprise there were no checks at all, not even a police officer walking through the train, and we departed on time.

The only unusual thing about is that it was the first train of the day which leaves Warsaw about 4AM.

 

[rvdborgt]

I took an EC from Poznan to Berlin last week and to my surprise there were no checks at all, not even a police officer walking through the train, and we departed on time.

I guess that's the exception to the current rule then. On that day, at least.

 

[DanielB]

Despite everyone's bad experiences managed to get through Germany on time once again... or actually, arrived 1 minute early at my local station after an 8 hour trip from Basel. It wasn't delay free, but no issue with 12 minutes left of my 37 minute change in Düsseldorf.
Apparently I've got some kind of magnetic force attracting the one refurbished ICE-3M (set 4651) once again, had that one at every border crossing by ICE. But even it's restaurant car was functioning properly, which had severe issues and almost never worked for a long time.

Did have a full SBB-bingo however, and those are rare, with an EC missing multiple cars (one of which being the restaurant), having one odd car without a number and the other cars in a random order.

 

[dutchflyer]

On local/regional trains it is awful-here in the ´east´ around Leipzig I found also loads of trains cancelled, often at very short notice and also today utter confusing notes and announcements for works-or not and replacement buses (SEV). No ALTernative at all for a train that runs ev. 2 hrs and is scrapped. But timekeeping is not that bad-except just after a sector with works. Probably also to this 49€ monthly (Yes, I also have it and use it) the longer runs on RE-trains going west-east (like Kassel-Halle or Braunschweig-Magdeburg) are very full with standing loads.
Having to wait for an hour or 2-3 in Hamburg HBF=main some 2 weeks ago: not 1 single iCE arrived on time, also several cancelled and nearly half of trains departing (later in the evening) were delayed from the start as either stock or staff arrived late for the return.

 

[Teebs]

Despite everyone's bad experiences managed to get through Germany on time once again... or actually, arrived 1 minute early at my local station after an 8 hour trip from Basel. It wasn't delay free, but no issue with 12 minutes left of my 37 minute change in Düsseldorf.
Apparently I've got some kind of magnetic force attracting the one refurbished ICE-3M (set 4651) once again, had that one at every border crossing by ICE. But even it's restaurant car was functioning properly, which had severe issues and almost never worked for a long time.

Did have a full SBB-bingo however, and those are rare, with an EC missing multiple cars (one of which being the restaurant), having one odd car without a number and the other cars in a random order.

I wonder if I had that one a week ago on the Sunday on the Frankfurt to Brussels run. Most of the train had no air conditioning and the refridgeration for the restaurant car wasn't working. They ended up chucking us off at Liege and telling us to get a Belgian IC.

 

[DanielB]

The 4651 is easy to recognize as AFAIK it's the only ICE 3M with passenger information displays on the ceiling.

 

[Teebs]

The 4651 is easy to recognize as AFAIK it's the only ICE 3M with passenger information displays on the ceiling.

Wasn't that one then. The passenger information displays weren't working, but they were definitely the end of carriage ones not ceiling ones.

 

[scarby]

50 mins sat at a border station whilst zee officers checked IDs and passports?!? What's the point of Schengen?

1 hour 7 mins late. 'Happens every day - it's embarrasing', said the Polish staff.

I'd seriously question how effective these are at achieving anything. I've been through the one at Padborg (Germany-Denmark) where they checked everyone on the train and looking at the surrounding countryside I dare say anyone determined to get across without detection could simply get off at Flensburg and walk across the border at numerous places. Or even do so by car or bus.

 

[Sir Felix Pole]

I see from August's 'Modern Railways' that SBB is planning to curtail international services into Switzerland at the border because the chronic late running of DB ICE services to Chur and Interlaken is playing havoc with the regular interval domestic timetable. Surprisingly, TGV Lyria services (which SBB operates jointly with SNCF) will also be affected with termination at Basel or Geneva, and the few direct Lausanne services via Dole probably scrapped.

 

[DanielB]

I've read the same elsewhere. Those must be some heavy delays by the way as I've seen last year that those services sit for about 20 minutes or so at Basel SBB before continueing into Switzerland.
As far as I've read the Railjet to Austria would not be impacted as its not included in the domestic services, so connections don't suffer.

 

[Austriantrain]

I've read the same elsewhere. Those must be some heavy delays by the way as I've seen last year that those services sit for about 20 minutes or so at Basel SBB before continueing into Switzerland.
As far as I've read the Railjet to Austria would not be impacted as its not included in the domestic services, so connections don't suffer.

I found a recent interview with the director of the „Bundesamt für Verkehr“ (Transport ministry), where he backtracked. TGV will apparently Continue to run through (its path was a victim to a planned Basel - Zurich - Gotthard service, but the Basel - Luzern - Gotthard will now remain) and the railjet services will not, as was originally planned, be diverted via St Gallen. Still unsure about ICE though.

In general, SBB are the victim of their own success. An excellent offer brings more passengers - but at some point something has to give, and it’s infrastructure capacity. The planned 4 tph service on major long-distance route makes it even more complicated and a major issue is that the Bombardier-built IC-Twindexx will never run on WAKO now (a kind of tilt) so planned journey time improvements can only be achieved with new infrastructure, taking 15 to 20 years to build.

 

[YorkshireBear]

I see from August's 'Modern Railways' that SBB is planning to curtail international services into Switzerland at the border because the chronic late running of DB ICE services to Chur and Interlaken is playing havoc with the regular interval domestic timetable. Surprisingly, TGV Lyria services (which SBB operates jointly with SNCF) will also be affected with termination at Basel or Geneva, and the few direct Lausanne services via Dole probably scrapped.

I am surprised by the TGV Lyria services.

Is this reduction also not more related to construction?

 

[TravellingPhil]

I would assume Nightjet/CD Night services would not be affected by this?

 

[Fragezeichnen]

I've read the same elsewhere. Those must be some heavy delays by the way as I've seen last year that those services sit for about 20 minutes or so at Basel SBB before continueing into Switzerland.
As far as I've read the Railjet to Austria would not be impacted as its not included in the domestic services, so connections don't suffer.

The Swiss are very efficient and well practised at dealing with German delays. If the incoming train delay exceeds 20 minutes then the train is without hesitation cancelled beyond Basel, and a replacement train of SBB stock is used to do the trip to Zurich/Interlaken/Chur and back.
Given how often it happens it's not hard to see why they would want to just make the replacement trains the official ones.

 

[DanielB]

The Swiss are very efficient and well practised at dealing with German delays. If the incoming train delay exceeds 20 minutes then the train is without hesitation cancelled beyond Basel, and a replacement train of SBB stock is used to do the trip to Zurich/Interlaken/Chur and back.

I believe they even had a spare ICE sitting around for that purpose. Last week I was surprised as well to find an ICE set at the platform operating a domestic IC61 service to Interlaken.

 

[Fragezeichnen]

That's normal. Due to either lack of stabling space(no idea where you could park an 14-coach ICE in Interlaken) or lack of servicing facilities, the ICE services which appear to be stabled overnight in Chur/Interlaken in fact return to Basel/Zurich disguised as domestic services and then return the following morning. So the 07:28 Basel to Interlaken IC service is in fact the ICE set needed for the 10:00 ICE service from Interlaken.