Reported crime on railway. No action taken

[Jamiescott1]

Today on the 1650 departure from Paddington to Didcot whilst boarding, there was someone smoking in one of the carriages at 1640.
I reported to the Gwr staff on the gateline who radioed someone.
I gave description of person and what coach they were in.
There was a number of uniformed btp staff on the concourse.

No one responded to my report and train left as normal with the smoker arguing with another passenger who told him to stop smoking

 

[43066]

Today on the 1650 departure from Paddington to Didcot whilst boarding, there was someone smoking in one of the carriages at 1640.
I reported to the Gwr staff on the gateline who radioed someone.
I gave description of person and what coach they were in.
There was a number of uniformed btp staff on the concourse.

No one responded to my report and train left as normal with the smoker arguing with another passenger who told him to stop smoking

Realistically what were you expecting to happen for something so minor? BTP generally won’t be interested and there’s nothing anyone else can really do apart from asking him to stop!

Unfortunately the decline in behaviour on the railway mirrors society as a whole.

 

[Jamiescott1]

Realistically what were you expecting to happen for something so minor? BTP generally won’t be interested and there’s nothing anyone else can really do apart from asking him to stop!

Unfortunately the decline in behaviour on the railway mirrors society as a whole.

I would of expected as a minimum btp to take a walk past to let the person know they were there.
As a maximum if still smoking remove him from train and premises

 

[Merseysider]

You can also text 61016. Forum members' experiences reported here have varied but I've normally found them proactive at turning up - eg they may have had someone at Reading get on to see if they're still smoking.

 

[Gloster]

I would of expected as a minimum btp to take a walk past to let the person know they were there.
As a maximum if still smoking remove him from train and premises

In the ten minutes before the train should have departed…or were you expecting the train to be held while they deal with it? Much as I consider smoking in non-smoking areas to be an offence deserving of immediate public disembowelling (*), there is a limit to what can be done without causing the whole thing to snowball.

* - For a second offence: one strike-up and its all out.

 

[LCC106]

I can understand why you feel the matter should have been dealt with there and then, especially with BTP present, but do you know for sure that BTP were made aware of it? The person you spoke to May have been dealing with something more pressing in their mind and prioritised that instead.

 

[al78]

If it is not possible or practical to enforce certain rules, what is the point in having those rules at all?

 

[AlterEgo]

If it is not possible or practical to enforce certain rules, what is the point in having those rules at all?

To get the majority to obey them while accepting the 5% who don't as collateral.

 

[ComUtoR]

If it is not possible or practical to enforce certain rules, what is the point in having those rules at all?

Is the smoking rule set by the train company or is it a national legal requirement under UK law ?

 

[bramling]

I would of expected as a minimum btp to take a walk past to let the person know they were there.
As a maximum if still smoking remove him from train and premises

The problem is BTP are *very* thin on the ground. If they don’t have anyone to respond then that’s essentially that.

Really this sort of situation should be able to be dealt with by railway staff, but unfortunately with the combination of general decline in standards of behaviour, lack of respect for staff and generally greater possibility nowadays for these sorts of people to turn very nasty at the mere suggestion of being told not to do something, it is often easier just to get BTP to deal with.

With smoking being a safety issue as well as a comfort one, really the train shouldn’t have been allowed to depart until the situation was dealt with. But would everyone else have appreciated that?

 

[hexagon789]

Is the smoking rule set by the train company or is it a national legal requirement under UK law ?

Previously the former, nowadays the latter.

 

[AlterEgo]

Is the smoking rule set by the train company or is it a national legal requirement under UK law ?

It's a crime under the Railway Bylaws to smoke where there is signage saying it is not permitted.

 

[bazzarati]

I could be speaking out of turn, but if you want something done it would be worth exaggerating what's going on. When confronted this type of rules breaker will generally escalate it and end up being dragged off by BTP. Don't be afraid to up the ante

 

[Gloster]

I could be speaking out of turn, but if you want something done it would be worth exaggerating what's going on. When confronted this type of rules breaker will generally escalate it and end up being dragged off by BTP. Don't be afraid to up the ante

And after you have had your facial features rearranged and, if the malefactor has the gift of the gab and come up with a cock-and-bull story while you are stunned, you have been hauled off by the BTP, everything will be fine? Hoping that things will be solved by escalating them is not a good idea for you…or anyone.

 

[43066]

I could be speaking out of turn, but if you want something done it would be worth exaggerating what's going on. When confronted this type of rules breaker will generally escalate it and end up being dragged off by BTP. Don't be afraid to up the ante

This isn’t a good idea, as it will inevitably emerge you’ve exaggerated, and the BTP have complained about staff hamming things up on occasion. Doing this will make them even less likely to respond next time: “the boy who cried wolf” etc.

 

[bazzarati]

And after you have had your facial features rearranged and, if the malefactor has the gift of the gab and come up with a cock-and-bull story while you are stunned, you have been hauled off by the BTP, everything will be fine? Hoping that things will be solved by escalating them is not a good idea for you…or anyone.

Well accept things as they are then. It's your choice

 

[AlterEgo]

Well accept things as they are then. It's your choice

The world isn't as binary as "accept things as they are" vs "lie about what someone is doing to the police or staff to cause more trouble". One is definitely a lot dafter than the other.

 

[bazzarati]

And after you have had your facial features rearranged and, if the malefactor has the gift of the gab and come up with a cock-and-bull story while you are stunned, you have been hauled off by the BTP, everything will be fine? Hoping that things will be solved by escalating them is not a good idea for you…or anyone.

If you want BTP assistance that's how you get it. I'm relying on an unruly idiot behaving like an unruly idiot once they turn up. If they don't and behave instead, all the better

The world isn't as binary as "accept things as they are" vs "lie about what someone is doing to the police or staff to cause more trouble". One is definitely a lot dafter than the other.

Do nothing then and quit complaining

 

[theking]

This is a major London terminus not some halt in the middle of no where, this is bread and butter stuff so there is zero excuse for not attending if they were on the concourse.

Surprised the train crew departed because if they're so brazen to do it at a terminus who knows what they will get up to mainline where assistance could be hours away.

 

[AlterEgo]

Do nothing then and quit complaining

I don't know why you're addressing that to me, I just stated I don't see the world isn't as binary as that, nor did I complain.

What I'd do would depend very much on the situation and the person who was smoking.

 

[bazzarati]

I don't know why you're addressing that to me, I just stated I don't see the world isn't as binary as that, nor did I complain.

What I'd do would depend very much on the situation and the person who was smoking.

Tell us then what you would do if you were in this situation?

 

[Alanko]

I could be speaking out of turn, but if you want something done it would be worth exaggerating what's going on. When confronted this type of rules breaker will generally escalate it and end up being dragged off by BTP. Don't be afraid to up the ante

That didn't work in the case of Lee Pomeroy and flies in the face of any sensible conflict deescalation route.

 

[Edsmith]

Today on the 1650 departure from Paddington to Didcot whilst boarding, there was someone smoking in one of the carriages at 1640.
I reported to the Gwr staff on the gateline who radioed someone.
I gave description of person and what coach they were in.
There was a number of uniformed btp staff on the concourse.

No one responded to my report and train left as normal with the smoker arguing with another passenger who told him to stop smoking

I could understand the police doing nothing if it was somebody smoking on the platform of some remote station but to be smoking on board a train at Paddington is taking the proverbial, he could have at very least stood on the platform and smoked although still illegal. I think the train should have been held until the police arrived to remove the idiot and deal with him.

Text 61016 although this service isn't available from all mobiles.

I saw someone smoking on the concourse at Kings Cross recently and BTP were there very quickly to deal with them.

 

[ComUtoR]

This is a major London terminus not some halt in the middle of no where, this is bread and butter stuff so there is zero excuse for not attending if they were on the concourse.

Did anyone inform them ? Something was reported to Gateline and they sent a call.ovwr the radio.

I'm not sure that a call would be made to BTP for someone smoking.

 

[43066]

I would of expected as a minimum btp to take a walk past to let the person know they were there.
As a maximum if still smoking remove him from train and premises

Apologies, I now see I slightly misread your initial post: I’d interpreted it as the smoker having left the train, rather than the train departing with him still on it. In that case, I completely agree it’s disappointing they didn’t do as you say.

This is a major London terminus not some halt in the middle of no where, this is bread and butter stuff so there is zero excuse for not attending if they were on the concourse.

Surprised the train crew departed because if they're so brazen to do it at a terminus who knows what they will get up to mainline where assistance could be hours away.

Agreed.

I could understand the police doing nothing if it was somebody smoking on the platform of some remote station but to be smoking on board a train at Paddington is taking the proverbial, he could have at very least stood on the platform and smoked although still illegal. I think the train should have been held until the police arrive to remove the idiot and deal with him.

Text 61016 although this service isn't available from all mobiles.

Agreed.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Realistically what were you expecting to happen for something so minor? BTP generally won’t be interested and there’s nothing anyone else can really do apart from asking him to stop!

Unfortunately the decline in behaviour on the railway mirrors society as a whole.

Sadly I have to agree. If minor transgressions were dealt with politely but firmly then more serious behaviour would be less likely to evolve.

The problem is BTP are *very* thin on the ground. If they don’t have anyone to respond then that’s essentially that.

Really this sort of situation should be able to be dealt with by railway staff, but unfortunately with the combination of general decline in standards of behaviour, lack of respect for staff and generally greater possibility nowadays for these sorts of people to turn very nasty at the mere suggestion of being told not to do something, it is often easier just to get BTP to deal with.

With smoking being a safety issue as well as a comfort one, really the train shouldn’t have been allowed to depart until the situation was dealt with. But would everyone else have appreciated that?

That is a point. A train held up for one smoker is not kind of all the law abiding citizens.

This isn’t a good idea, as it will inevitably emerge you’ve exaggerated, and the BTP have complained about staff hamming things up on occasion. Doing this will make them even less likely to respond next time: “the boy who cried wolf” etc.

I agree. This would end up making the complainant look just as bad if not worse.

One big fear I have is a lack of officials dealing with this type of thing risks others taking the law into their own hands.

 

[AlterEgo]

Tell us then what you would do if you were in this situation?

Are you really asking me that directly below a quote from me telling you that it would depend on the situation and who was smoking?

I wasn't there, and all we know is that there was someone smoking. I am fairly sure that I would not do what you were suggesting though.

 

[nw1]

The problem is BTP are *very* thin on the ground. If they don’t have anyone to respond then that’s essentially that.

Really this sort of situation should be able to be dealt with by railway staff, but unfortunately with the combination of general decline in standards of behaviour, lack of respect for staff and generally greater possibility nowadays for these sorts of people to turn very nasty at the mere suggestion of being told not to do something, it is often easier just to get BTP to deal with.

With smoking being a safety issue as well as a comfort one, really the train shouldn’t have been allowed to depart until the situation was dealt with. But would everyone else have appreciated that?

Speaking as a lifetime non-smoker, delaying the train would have annoyed me to be honest.
As irritating as it is, it's not worth disrupting people's journeys, and potentially causing knock-on effects on the whole inner GWML, over.

It was just one person, if I had been close to them I'd have just moved elsewhere.

I'd have thought reporting the incident to the guard (if there was one), and letting the guard deal with it, would be the obvious solution. Are there no guards on Didcot services?

 

[irish_rail]

Speaking as a lifetime non-smoker, delaying the train would have annoyed me to be honest.
As irritating as it is, it's not worth disrupting people's journeys, and potentially causing knock-on effects on the whole inner GWML, over.

It was just one person, if I had been close to them I'd have just moved elsewhere.

I'd have thought reporting the incident to the guard (if there was one), and letting the guard deal with it, would be the obvious solution. Are there no guards on Didcot services?

Agreed. For the greater good not worth the inevitable delay to the train in the evening peak where the BTP to get involved and the perpetrator resists and things escalate.

 

[Snow1964]

There is always the communication cord if you need to attract staff attention. Bit drastic but at least someone would have come along, and if it was still 10 minutes before departure, should have been able to be resolved without delaying the train.

Technically there was a fire (or at least something alight) in the carriage so staff and BTP ignoring it was very poor show.

Perhaps if it happens again, don't say it as smoking, but report it as someone has set fire to something.