Return to Education

[nedchester]

I don't know what you are referring to but there really is no issue with schools going back.

Schools were back for around 14 weeks in the autumn term with no real issues.

No real issues apart from a massive rise in infection rates of course...........oh hang on!

I'm not saying this will happen this time as some lessons have been learned and we now have the vaccine.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

I am curious to know whether or not teachers will be mandated to wear face masks in the classroom from tomorrow or if such wearing is voluntary

Reason for asking is that there are a lot of children with auditory processing difficulties and temporary/permanent hearing losses that rely on lip reading and facial expressions

How will their listening and learning be facilitated?

I'm sure that I will start to hear disturbing stories from parents in due course...

 

[farleigh]

I am curious to know whether or not teachers will be mandated to wear face masks in the classroom from tomorrow or if such wearing is voluntary

Reason for asking is that there are a lot of children with auditory processing difficulties and temporary/permanent hearing losses that rely on lip reading and facial expressions

How will their listening and learning be facilitated?

I'm sure that I will start to hear disturbing stories from parents in due course...

'Encouraged' at my place.

I am not encouraged

 

[sjpowermac]

I am curious to know whether or not teachers will be mandated to wear face masks in the classroom from tomorrow or if such wearing is voluntary

Reason for asking is that there are a lot of children with auditory processing difficulties and temporary/permanent hearing losses that rely on lip reading and facial expressions

How will their listening and learning be facilitated?

I'm sure that I will start to hear disturbing stories from parents in due course...

Masks are recommended in school where 2 metre social distancing isn’t possible.

Teachers have been advised to keep 2 metres distance in the classroom and so the answer to your question is that in England teachers won’t be expected to wear masks in the classroom unless they are within 2 metres of the student.

'Encouraged' at my place.

I am not encouraged

That’s disappointing that your school has said that. The mask certainly doesn’t help with communication. I gave it a go one day in the autumn term but it wasn’t something I repeated!

No real issues apart from a massive rise in infection rates of course...........oh hang on!

I'm not saying this will happen this time as some lessons have been learned and we now have the vaccine.

Please write out 100 times:
“All schools are Covid secure and had nothing to do with increases in infection rates.”

 

[Bikeman78]

Some of it is true: basins at the entrance to school, sanitiser in classrooms, windows open and - disgracefully - masks in classrooms for 3 weeks .

I recall my GCSE year maths teacher had a corner classroom, with lots of single glazed windows, which struggled to reach 15 degrees on a cold day. That was with the windows firmly shut! The school was built in 1902 and many of the buildings and furniture hadn't been updated much by 1990. It has now been extensively modernised.

 

[nedchester]

Please write out 100 times:
“All schools are Covid secure and had nothing to do with increases in infection rates.”

Just as well I know you have your tongue firmly in your cheek there.........

 

[35B]

Having a quick read of that I think it looks to be all pretty accurate except for the following, but even then it does say "encouraged", "could" and "could":


The first part is a bit pointless to "encourage" because in most lessons this won't be possible, though cleanly it will be in some. In practice if the room is large enough it will probably be enforced through seating plans rather than "encouraged".

The other parts are a bit misleading in that I doubt any schools will be doing this, though it does say "could" so is very non-committal.

It is poor journalism, and to say something "could" happen when it is highly unlikely to happen is misleading, but is it lying?

I still fail to see how this will turn people against teachers.

I’ve not read that report in the Times, and my opinion of schools is driven by what I hear from my children and their schools. I have full confidence in them to apply government advice practically to the circumstances of the schools.

I therefore agree that lots of things “could” happen, but have little interest in those hypotheticals by comparison to what will happen at my children’s schools.

 

[farleigh]

Masks are recommended in school where 2 metre social distancing isn’t possible.

Teachers have been advised to keep 2 metres distance in the classroom and so the answer to your question is that in England teachers won’t be expected to wear masks in the classroom unless they are within 2 metres of the student.


That’s disappointing that your school has said that. The mask certainly doesn’t help with communication. I gave it a go one day in the autumn term but it wasn’t something I repeated!


Please write out 100 times:
“All schools are Covid secure and had nothing to do with increases in infection rates.”

I agree with you.

tbf it is the trust rather than the school

 

[yorkie]

I agree with you.

tbf it is the trust rather than the school

Yes that can be a problem; some schools are very much at the mercy of what powers above have decided.

And the Government advice gives a lot of discretion; loads of maybes and shoulds, but not many musts.

In other news...

Covid: Gavin Williamson 'looking at' longer school day and shorter holidays

A range of measures are being looked at to help pupils in England catch up, the education secretary says.

www.bbc.co.uk

Longer school days and shorter holidays are among the measures the government is considering to help pupils in England catch up on lost learning, the education secretary has said.

The Government are again out of touch.

School staff will surely NOT stand for extending the school day or shortening the holidays.

It is also not fair on students.

What I would support is more funding for extra curricular clubs. Anything additional must be voluntary, fun, and not onerous.

We need to focus on improving fitness levels, mental health and other important factors, not merely ''catching up".

 

[Jamesrob637]

I really don't know how to respond to this.

You are really saying that kids have been off for so long, their education is so harmed it doesn't matter if we harm it any more?!


We need to tell them to stuff it; the link between infections and deaths has been well and truly broken (as discussed in other threads; let's not duplicate that discussion here). I don't think there is going to be a particularly big uptick in infections caused by schools and even if there was it would not have the sort of results any such uptick would have happened a few months ago.


I typed my reply to @Jamesrob637 before I saw your post but yes I completely agree.

So in your eyes, even the Welsh have been absurd and negligent? Not all kids will be back until after Easter even there.

 

[yorkie]

So in your eyes, even the Welsh have been absurd and negligent? Not all kids will be back until after Easter even there.

Absolutely, yes.

I see it as a form of neglect on a systematic scale.

 

[farleigh]

The Government are again out of touch.

School staff will surely NOT stand for extending the school day or shortening the holidays.

It is also not fair on students.

What I would support is more funding for extra curricular clubs. Anything additional must be voluntary, fun, and not onerous.

We need to focus on improving fitness levels, mental health and other important factors, not merely ''catching up".

Totally agree - lengthening school days for academic catch-up would be a serious misjudgement.

The government have seriously compromised the well-being of millions of young people who have now lost trust in the educational system. The last thing they need is to be told that they need to work longer and harder to make up for this dire situation that has not benefited them in any way.

I am concerned about the state of many young people who will return to education this week.

 

[philosopher]

The Government are again out of touch.

School staff will surely NOT stand for extending the school day or shortening the holidays.

It is also not fair on students.

What I would support is more funding for extra curricular clubs. Anything additional must be voluntary, fun, and not onerous.

We need to focus on improving fitness levels, mental health and other important factors, not merely ''catching up".

Having shorter but more frequent holidays I remember was discussed several years ago with the main justifications being were that kids forget some of the work they did over the summer and that it allowed for more flexibility for families booking summer holidays. Overall the amount of holidays kids got would remain the same. Nothing seemed to come from it though.

 

[Jamesrob637]

Having shorter but more frequent holidays I remember was discussed several years ago with the main justifications being were that kids forget some of the work they did over the summer and that it allowed for more flexibility for families booking summer holidays. Overall the amount of holidays kids got would remain the same. Nothing seemed to come from it though.

Stockport (where I am) plus neighbouring Tameside primaries get 2 weeks in May/June and only 5 weeks over summer. I don't see a deterioration in the quality of education in these two boroughs compared to the rest of Greater Manchester.

 

[farleigh]

Stockport (where I am) plus neighbouring Tameside primaries get 2 weeks in May/June and only 5 weeks over summer. I don't see a deterioration in the quality of education in these two boroughs compared to the rest of Greater Manchester.

What metrics have you used?

 

[yorkie]

Stockport (where I am) plus neighbouring Tameside primaries get 2 weeks in May/June and only 5 weeks over summer. I don't see a deterioration in the quality of education in these two boroughs compared to the rest of Greater Manchester.

I'd totally support a 2 week break in June in exchange for only 5 in Summer but I do not see how this has got anything to do with the topic in hand?

 

[Jamesrob637]

I'd totally support a 2 week break in June in exchange for only 5 in Summer but I do not see how this has got anything to do with the topic in hand?

Post #613. Maybe Stockport and Tameside knew something most of England didn't
After all, many modern inventions were founded around these parts so it's natural we are ahead of the times

 

[py_megapixel]

The Government are again out of touch.

School staff will surely NOT stand for extending the school day or shortening the holidays.

It is also not fair on students.

What I would support is more funding for extra curricular clubs. Anything additional must be voluntary, fun, and not onerous.

We need to focus on improving fitness levels, mental health and other important factors, not merely ''catching up".

I shall quote myself from the dedicated thread on this issue. I was specifically focussing on longer terms but I feel much the same about longer days:

No. Absolutely not.

I'm sorry but anyone who suggests that a shorter school holiday will solve anything at all is completely out-of-touch.

Maybe people should actually ask the teachers (and the children - yes, the younger ones and the general troublemakers will give daft answers, but there are plenty of older secondary school kids who will be capable of giving perfectly logical opinions on this) what they feel is needed. I'd wager the majority are extremely stressed by this entire ordeal and simply want a break.

If this route is taken, I can't see schools actually getting enough students in and motivated to make it worthwhile. Or alternatively they could go down the route of counting it as compulsory schooling and fining parents who don't send their kids in, which of course creates a divide between the people who can afford to just factor in the costs of the fines into their plans, and those who simply don't have the financial ability to do so.

I would also be unsurprised if all of this led to a teaching union strike.

For anyone interested, here is the relevant thread:

Should Gavin Williamson shorten the school holidays?

I think no as the kids have already worked hard enough with zooms and it is hard enough with zooms. They need breaks for their efforts and get little time on breaks for their efforts.

railforums.co.uk

 

[yorkie]

thanks for that; I have voted in that poll!

 

[35B]

Yes that can be a problem; some schools are very much at the mercy of what powers above have decided.

And the Government advice gives a lot of discretion; loads of maybes and shoulds, but not many musts.

In other news...

Covid: Gavin Williamson 'looking at' longer school day and shorter holidays

A range of measures are being looked at to help pupils in England catch up, the education secretary says.

www.bbc.co.uk

The Government are again out of touch.

School staff will surely NOT stand for extending the school day or shortening the holidays.

It is also not fair on students.

What I would support is more funding for extra curricular clubs. Anything additional must be voluntary, fun, and not onerous.

We need to focus on improving fitness levels, mental health and other important factors, not merely ''catching up".

My son was pungent tonight on catch-up tuition. As he’s at the top of his ability range and in year 11, I suggested he might be low priority for such a treat... As a parent, I’d also need major persuading that it would be in either of my children’s benefit given the high quality of teaching they’ve had this term - though I’m aware of other schools which have performed much worse.

I have mixed feelings about longer days. My education was private, and we had one extra lesson (40 minutes) per day compared to local state schools, but this was balanced by shorter terms. I don’t remember that school day a hardship.

I therefore don’t see a short extension to the school day to recover content being excessive, but would have issues with eating into the summer break.

 

[Cowley]

@35B - Pungent?
I mean we’ve got teenagers and I know what it can get like...

 

[35B]

@35B - Pungent?
I mean we’ve got teenagers and I know what it can get like...

I was referring to language, but, yes, the other sort can also apply..l

 

[yorkie]

I therefore don’t see a short extension to the school day to recover content being excessive, but would have issues with eating into the summer break.

How short would be acceptable?

Teachers have enough on their plates as it is.

And if the school day is extended, where does that leave after school clubs and sporting activities? Should they be abandoned in order to cater for more mundane regular lessons? I think not

 

[35B]

How short would be acceptable?

Teachers have enough on their plates as it is.

And if the school day is extended, where does that leave after school clubs and sporting activities? Should they be abandoned in order to cater for more mundane regular lessons? I think not

All I can say is that my personal experience was of an environment where after school clubs were standard; just after my era, it was normal for the 6th form drama groups to perform at the Edinburgh Fringe each summer. Sports were also an important part of the curriculum, while timetable time was set aside for extra curricular activities including a thriving cadet corps.

This, by the way, was in the context of many pupils travelling an hour or so to school, with the constraints that imposes on scheduling.

 

[yorkie]

I think things may be different at most schools

And times have changed; it can be difficult to recruit teenagers to play football after school when they can go home and play on X box, play station etc with their friends virtually. And that was before the pandemic and with a school finish time no later than 3pm

 

[35B]

I think things may be different at most schools

And times have changed; it can be difficult to recruit teenagers to play football after school when they can go home and play on X box, play station etc with their friends virtually. And that was before the pandemic and with a school finish time no later than 3pm

I’m sure they are different; KCS is definitely not run of the mill. However, and I believe this could be more generally applicable, the school culture was such that there was little choice to opt out (and there were plenty of good reasons to do other stuff even in my pre internet days).

 

[yorkie]

I'm just saying what the reality is at modern non-private schools (at least ones I am familiar with where there a significant number of pupil premium students). It's a different world to a private school a few decades ago for so many reasons.

Good luck getting enough staff to put on activities for all students and making it hard for them to opt out! If it could feasibly be done, great, but it's just not the current reality.

 

[nedchester]

I'm just saying what the reality is at modern non-private schools (at least ones I am familiar with where there a significant number of pupil premium students). It's a different world to a private school a few decades ago for so many reasons.

Good luck getting enough staff to put on activities for all students and making it hard for them to opt out! If it could feasibly be done, great, but it's just not the current reality.

The staff will get their arms twisted to do the extra hours. Despite all the extra efforts they've put in over the last 12 months they will be told they have to do extra hours after school (+ the preparation) because 'we are there for the children' or 'good for your professional development' or 'it'll be part of your appraisal'. Emotional blackmail (aka bullying).

I've been there.

Additionally, when I used to teach after school lessons (our triple science groups) couldn't fit the three sciences into the school day, I found the pupils less responsive in the additional Physics lesson. Remember this was highly motivated, high ability pupils. By 16:30 both myself and the pupils were knackered!

The answer is that we have to accept that the children are behind and a gradual move to get children back on track is needed (this will take years not months).

 

[3rd rail land]

The staff will get their arms twisted to do the extra hours. Despite all the extra efforts they've put in over the last 12 months they will be told they have to do extra hours after school (+ the preparation) because 'we are there for the children' or 'good for your professional development' or 'it'll be part of your appraisal'. Emotional blackmail (aka bullying).

I've been there.

Additionally, when I used to teach after school lessons (our triple science groups) couldn't fit the three sciences into the school day, I found the pupils less responsive in the additional Physics lesson. Remember this was highly motivated, high ability pupils. By 16:30 both myself and the pupils were knackered!

The answer is that we have to accept that the children are behind and a gradual move to get children back on track is needed (this will take years not months).

You'll have to forgive my ignorance on this topic but isn't that why there are teaching unions, in order to stop this sort of thing happening?

As to the length of the school day I went to a private boarding school whereby the school day was from 09:00 - 18:10 although after my first year this got reduced to 09:00 - 17:55 and they changed the last period of the day to a non lesson such as a study period or a tutor session and suchlike. I can't say such a timetable was particularly enjoyable but I survived and we did get long holidays. In fact my last 2 years of prep school, years 7 & 8, the school day was 08:30 - 17:00/30, I can't remember which seeing as I left that school in 2004. We did get a 1pm finish on Friday though.

 

[nedchester]

You'll have to forgive my ignorance on this topic but isn't that why there are teaching unions, in order to stop this sort of thing happening?

The teaching unions are powerless as in many schools there's a 'culture of fear'. Not just in my previous school but in many others.

The problem is that it is impossible to do the job perfectly, corners have to be cut. Anyone looking for fault (perhaps in someone who rocks the boat) will find it.

When you ask staff to try and make a stand they won't through fear or better still when you have a meeting of the Union in school the management will find someone who still happens to be a union member (but now in the management) to attend meetings which guarantees that people don't step out of line.

Nearly six years on I am still bitter that they got away with it. It will still be happening in schools across the country to get teachers to do 'extra'