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Rishi Sunak and the Conservative Party.

nw1

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True she is very much in the minority in her own party which itself is out of touch with the electorate. That's why the Conservatives are finished at the next election.

So you're saying that more of the electorate align with the hard-right Braverman than with the Tory Party as a whole?

I find that hard to believe. The Tories as a whole are bad enough at the moment, but Braverman is a particularly extreme example and I would expect her to be very much more unpopular than an average Tory.
 
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Yew

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I think it’s more like ‘pro-demonstration’ demonstration. Many ‘demonstrating’ won’t have a clue what they’re demonstrating about.
Seems like a lot of effort to go to if you don't know what it's about..
 

D6130

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London is full of people with nothing to do but go and march about in the cold for an unknown reason on a saturday afternoon.
Many of the people who take part in protest marches in London travel from other parts of the country. A large number of coaches have been chartered to bring protestors to London tomorrow from Liverpool, Greater Manchester, West and South Yorkshire and - no doubt - many other parts of the country.
 

Busaholic

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Many of the people who take part in protest marches in London travel from other parts of the country. A large number of coaches have been chartered to bring protestors to London tomorrow from Liverpool, Greater Manchester, West and South Yorkshire and - no doubt - many other parts of the country.
Of course they do - that huge anti Iraq invasion rally way back had a million or so participants who came from all over: after all, London is the seat of government, whom you wish to be taking note, and certainly all the media will be there in droves.
 

dangie

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Many of the people who take part in protest marches in London travel from other parts of the country. A large number of coaches have been chartered to bring protestors to London tomorrow from Liverpool, Greater Manchester, West and South Yorkshire and - no doubt - many other parts of the country.
According to the media (BBC News) ‘hundreds of thousands’ of protesters are due to arrive in the Capital. Whether you support the police or not, I think they have been well and truly thrown under the bus on this one. There will undoubtedly be ‘protesters’ who are there for one thing only, to cause trouble.
 

Howardh

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According to the media (BBC News) ‘hundreds of thousands’ of protesters are due to arrive in the Capital. Whether you support the police or not, I think they have been well and truly thrown under the bus on this one. There will undoubtedly be ‘protesters’ who are there for one thing only, to cause trouble.
"Protesters" in the march itself, or those against the march (causing trouble)?
 

yorkie

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Are these people protesters? What are they doing? Protesting against protesting? Talking of "hate marches", is this what one looks like?
The far right paying their respects to the war dead. Absolute disgrace. ⁦
@SuellaBraverman ⁩ this is on you
(Video shows what appears to be the far-right pushing, shoving and behaving in an intimidatory and rowdy manner and shouting "I'm England 'til I die")
Edit: another angle of what appears to be the same incident:
London: Far-Right activists clashes with Police
Edit: and another:
I have friends in Hyde Park right now, in London. It’s peaceful. No chaos. Calling for a ceasefire. Calling for peace.

Meanwhile, Tommy Robinson has tailgated the hatred campaign instilled from Braverman in recent days. Horrific.
Of course, there is no doubt that people on both 'sides' will misbehave today, but Braverman and Sunak have been behaving disgracefully and must be held responsible for their role in what will no doubt not end well.
 
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Howardh

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Are these people protesters? It looks like a hate march to me:

(Video shows what appears to be the far-right pushing, shoving and behaving in an intimidatory and rowdy manner and shouting "I'm England 'til I die")

Of course, there is no doubt that people on both 'sides' will misbehave today, but Braverman and Sunak have been behaving disgracefully and must be held responsible for their role in what will no doubt not end well.
As a technicality, who are they actually "hating"? But they all put this country into a terrible light, they are a disgrace. The absolute total opposite of the Pride and EU marches I have been on in London. One person asked me on the latest EU march "Is this a protest?".

"No, sir, it's a polite request!"
 

DustyBin

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"Protesters" in the march itself, or those against the march (causing trouble)?

Of course, there is no doubt that people on both 'sides' will misbehave today, but Braverman and Sunak have been behaving disgracefully and must be held responsible for their role in what will no doubt not end well.

It’s now a self fulfilling prophecy. Anyone looking for trouble (for whatever reason) knows exactly where to head this weekend!
 

alex397

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This is largely the fault of Braverman. The disrespect she has shown to those who died in the war and current war veterans is beyond disgusting, as she is the one who stirred up all this hatred either because she is evil or stupid, or a mixture of the two. She needs to be sacked now.
 

Busaholic

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This is largely the fault of Braverman. The disrespect she has shown to those who died in the war and current war veterans is beyond disgusting, as she is the one who stirred up all this hatred either because she is evil or stupid, or a mixture of the two. She needs to be sacked now.
I think the useless and ineffective Sunak will have been forced to sack her by Tuesday almost regardless of what happens or doesn't happens today. The level of support for her among Tory MPs and cabinet ministers, apart from the mercurial Gove with his own agenda as always and the headbangers, is obviously nil. Oh, and while he's about it, why not ditch loathsome Anderson too?
 

GS250

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To be fair this is about the sum total of Britain's 'far right'. A relatively small group of football hooligan types out for a bit of a tear up. Little in the way of organisation or having any funding links with the wealthy types who live in the shadows.

They have turned up in the past before Braverman was anything of influence so I wouldn't put this all down to her, no matter how incompetent she may be.
 

alex397

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They have turned up in the past before Braverman was anything of influence so I wouldn't put this all down to her, no matter how incompetent she may be.
Words spoken by politicians and the media have a huge impact. If such a fuss hadn’t been made about this Palestine march, then less people would have been made aware of it and feel the need to ‘protect’ the Centograph.

A Home Secretary should be using language to encourage peace, not stoking up fear and hatred. Her language clearly stirs up hate, and is not appropriate. So, she deserves a lot of blame for this.
 

nlogax

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They have turned up in the past before Braverman was anything of influence so I wouldn't put this all down to her, no matter how incompetent she may be.

Some of the right-wing rentamob allegedly stated they're protesting *specifically* because of Braverman's comments. Make of that what you will.
 

jon0844

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I saw the live feeds this morning and basically Tommy Robinson and others led a bunch of hooligans start a near riot as they barged in and took over. Then when there were no pro Palestine marchers (as they weren't going there) they turned to attacking the police and security guards.

Over 80 arrested I believe?

They all seem to have mislaid their poppies too, but then they did pretend that poppy sellers were too scared to sell them and were being threatened (the police couldn't find a single example and I bet we all saw them selling poppies in towns and stations).

Now they'll have their footage of the police 'attacking them' which will perfectly fit their narrative.
 

yorkie

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I saw the live feeds this morning and basically Tommy Robinson and others led a bunch of hooligans start a near riot as they barged in and took over. Then when there were no pro Palestine marchers (as they weren't going there) they turned to attacking the police and security guards.
Apparently Yaxley-Lennon (to use his real name) decided to do a runner in a taxi; he was so desperate to get away he didn't mind the livery ;)
Tommy Robinson runs away from the mob he incited… in a Pride taxi. You couldn’t make it up.
Tommy Robinson marched his "lads" to famous Islamist hotbed, Chinatown, cops moved in and he shipped out in a black cab covered in Pride coloured livery abandoning his minions.
Good to see little Tommy Robinson embracing Pride as he abandons his followers, again.
:lol:

Given the huge turnout of the peace march, I wonder if Sunak, Braverman and their odious ilk will slowly start to realise they were wrong to back Israel and wrong to reject a ceasefire?
 

aavm

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The Conservatives seem to be sleepwalking to (electoral) disaster. What can they do to win? Play devil's advocate if necessary.
 

GS250

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Given the huge turnout of the peace march, I wonder if Sunak, Braverman and their odious ilk will slowly start to realise they were wrong to back Israel and wrong to reject a ceasefire?

I wouldn't judge overall public opinion by the amount of people who back a protest. Or the flavour of the noise on social media.
 

takno

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The Conservatives seem to be sleepwalking to (electoral) disaster. What can they do to win? Play devil's advocate if necessary.
Declaring a state of emergency and cancelling the elections is an option I suppose. Alternatively they could try to get the police to trump up some charges against all their credible opponents. Unfortunately it seems like the police have lost interest in what they say, and there would be a lot of charges to trump up since you could probably put the case for electing a wet lettuce in preference to them.
 

birchesgreen

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Who could have guessed that dragging remembrance day into the culture wars and weaponising the poppy over the last few years might have some drawbacks?
 

yorkie

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I wouldn't judge overall public opinion by the amount of people who back a protest. Or the flavour of the noise on social media.
Do you really think the Tories are in line with the majority of the general public on this issue?
 

317 forever

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Cameron is far more to blame for Brexit than Johnson.
  1. In order to win power he made a referendum on Brexit (something he knew full well would be a disaster for Britain) his key manifesto pledge in 2015, putting his desire for power over the good of the country.
  2. He could have very easily stipulated that the Brexit referendum required a super majority (perfectly reasonable for a change as drastic as Brexit) to pass rather than a simple majority but chose not to.
  3. When the referendum didn't go the way he hoped he immediately took the cowardly option of resigning and leaving someone else to clean up the almighty mess he'd just created.
A snag with a super majority of say 60% is that we could have had a 59% Leave vote with such a high turnout that over 50% of the electorate had voted Leave but we would have had to Remain in the EU due to the super majority not being achieved.

A more effective safeguard could have been at least 50% of the electorate voting Leave. Then we would have left if and if at least half the electorate had voted to do so.
 

GusB

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Apparently Yaxley-Lennon (to use his real name) decided to do a runner in a taxi; he was so desperate to get away he didn't mind the livery ;)



:lol:

Given the huge turnout of the peace march, I wonder if Sunak, Braverman and their odious ilk will slowly start to realise they were wrong to back Israel and wrong to reject a ceasefire?
RainbowCab to the Rescue! This has just made my day! :lol:
 

317 forever

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You do wonder. Each successive thing she comes out with seems to be more inflammatory than the last, almost as if she is trying to get into trouble.

However if she does become Tory leader, they can forget a 2029 comeback.

I also note Theresa May seems to be increasingly speaking out against some of the silly things this government is coming out with. I wonder if there is also scope for May becoming leader again by rallying the moderates within the party?
If Suella Braverman becomes leader they will lose the General Election with her as leader. Conversely, if Theresa May is re-elected leader, she could repeat her 2017 feat of leading them to a hung Parliament. However, this time it would represent progress.
 

GS250

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Do you really think the Tories are in line with the majority of the general public on this issue?

We still don't know do we? Some will see Israel as simply defending itself. Finishing a fight that Hammas started. Others will see Israel as defending itself but has clearly gone way too far in its tactics.

It seems to be forgotten that Hammas started this war. Attacking women, children and even slaughtering those at a music festival. An event that surely attracts plenty of younger Israelis with more sympathetic views towards Palestine.

Personally I think Israel has gone a bit too far.

The protests are only there though because Israel has a powerful military and has hit back hard. If this war was currently a 50/50 struggle with Hammas pushing deep into Israel and Israel not dominating....do you think there would be mass protests?
 

Nicholas Lewis

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We still don't know do we? Some will see Israel as simply defending itself. Finishing a fight that Hammas started. Others will see Israel as defending itself but has clearly gone way too far in its tactics.

It seems to be forgotten that Hammas started this war. Attacking women, children and even slaughtering those at a music festival. An event that surely attracts plenty of younger Israelis with more sympathetic views towards Palestine.
Hamas is a product of Israel due to decades of progressively corralling the Palestinians into ever smaller areas they fermented the situation and then Mr security Netanyahu was asleep on the job. If Sunak or any leader round the world had taken a proportionate approach that reflected the history the marchers may not have come out. That said the marchers behaved exemplary and despite the best efforts of Sue Ellen she didnt get the outcome she desired and the Met have shone through not forgetting they also had two premier league matches to police as well.
 

nw1

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I saw the live feeds this morning and basically Tommy Robinson and others led a bunch of hooligans start a near riot as they barged in and took over. Then when there were no pro Palestine marchers (as they weren't going there) they turned to attacking the police and security guards.

Over 80 arrested I believe?

They all seem to have mislaid their poppies too, but then they did pretend that poppy sellers were too scared to sell them and were being threatened (the police couldn't find a single example and I bet we all saw them selling poppies in towns and stations).

Now they'll have their footage of the police 'attacking them' which will perfectly fit their narrative.

The poppy sellers were probably afraid of Yaxley-Lennon and his band of ultra-right extremists.

BBC news appears to be reporting that most of the arrests today were from far-right troublemakers, not pro-ceasefire marchers.

Also, maybe Yaxley-Lennon should reflect upon the fact that the Allies in WWII were saving Europe from the likes of people like him.
 
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