Rishi Sunak and the Conservative Party.

[aavm]

The Conservatives seem to be sleepwalking to (electoral) disaster. What can they do to win? Play devil's advocate if necessary.

Well, seems Rishi's been reading the forum. Step in the right direction (Braverman). Cameron is a reasonable politician if you forget his running away after the Brexit vote.

However, I don't see this making a significant difference to the next election though. We cant just hope for Labour to tear itself apart over Gaza, or the definition of a woman.

 

[DC1989]

So pretending to be very right wing didn't move the polls so now he's going to reinvent himself as a hug a hoody moderate. Surely nobody will fall for this crap ?

 

[WatcherZero]

Few other junior ministers have quit including transports Jesse Norman who had the 'everything else' portfolio of air travel, decarbonisation, space, accessibility, skills, new technology, transport related job appointments, etc..

The Rt Hon Jesse Norman MP

Jesse Norman was Minister of State in the Department for Transport between 26 October 2022 and 13 November 2023. He was previously Minister of State at the Foreign, Commonwealth & Development Office from 7 September 2022 to 26 October 2022. Before that, he was Financial Secretary to the Treasury...

www.gov.uk

Update:
Two appointed to replace him Anthony Browne - South Cambridgeshire (worked under Boris when he was London Mayor as an economic advisor then five years heading the British Bankers' Association until it ceased to be, said to be close to Cameron) and Guy Opperman - Hexham (five years as pensions minister then a year as Employment minister, doesnt seem to have any particularly strong politics apart from anti-green, just keeps his head down which allowed him to become the longest serving pension minister as well as surviving multiple Conservative leaders).

 

[GS250]

Well, seems Rishi's been reading the forum. Step in the right direction (Braverman). Cameron is a reasonable politician if you forget his running away after the Brexit vote.

However, I don't see this making a significant difference to the next election though. We cant just hope for Labour to tear itself apart over Gaza, or the definition of a woman.

You could say though it was the likes of Cameron who caused all the division in the first place. His utter naive approach to the EU vote and not even considering that Britain may actually vote to leave says a lot.

Yes, you get the feeling he's a dignified and decent man. But is turning the clock back really the answer?

 

[brad465]

Dominic Cummings' "****pigs" insult has now become rather relevant

 

[nlogax]

Coffey has quit. Good.

 

[The Ham]

You could say though it was the likes of Cameron who caused all the division in the first place. His utter naive approach to the EU vote and not even considering that Britain may actually vote to leave says a lot.

Yes, you get the feeling he's a dignified and decent man. But is turning the clock back really the answer?

There's always those who think turning the clock back is a good thing.

Make America Great Again is a good example from the States, but you'll see it a lot in a lot of politics. For example the Tories' "family values" from the 1990's.

 

[nlogax]

There's always those who think turning the clock back is a good thing.

Make America Great Again is a good example from the States, but you'll see it a lot in a lot of politics. For example the Tories' "family values" from the 1990's.

Indeed. The sepia-tinged good old days never really existed yet it's a continued trait of governments to try and squeeze voters into a DeLorean and see what happens. Generally the answer always tends to land somewhere between nothing and complete mess. I'm reminded of John Major's Back to Basics campaign which kicked off what became the waterfall of 'Tory sleaze' amongst members of the government. Fun times.

 

[ChrisC]

Cameron, Johnson and Sunak are all as bad as each other in my book. In a weird way I don't think Theresa May was so bad as those three in hindsight even though she did controversial things as Home secretary and caused some damage to Britain's reputation in the immediate aftermath of the Brexit referendum.

I agree that Theresa May did do some controversial things as Home Secretary and she certainly wasn‘t the right person to handle Brexit. However, compared to Johnson and many of the others in his government and indeed current government she perhaps wasn’t so bad. I do think that she would have handled covid in a more organised and compassionate way. Despite her faults, I think, in comparison to many in the Conservative Party she seems a more genuinely honest and nice person.

 

[nw1]

David Cameron? Have I slept for 4 and a half months and woken up on April 1st?

Yes, Braverman going was absolutely the right thing to happen. But appointing Cameron as Foreign Secretary, firstly he's not even an MP, which smacks of cronyism. But it also smacks of extreme indecision.

"We're hard right wing. Erm, no, we're centrist. Perhaps." That really doesn't come across very well at all.

And of course Cameron, the supposed "remainer" and p*ss-poor "leader" of the Remain campaign, now completely abandoning his principles and working with a militantly pro-Brexit government. Given that the Foreign Secretary is supposed to focus on international relations, what will the rest of Europe think? They'll think the UK Government is a joke, if they didn't do already, of course.

A complete mess, and just makes this government look even more of a joke than it did yesterday. They just come across as if they haven't a clue what they're doing, and randomly trying various things in the hope that it will improve their fortunes.

(And remember it was Cameron's monumentally stupid decision to hold a referendum that would pass on 50.000000001% of those who voted, voting for Leave, even if the turnout wasn't great. While he isn't as bad as three of his four successors, he made perhaps the most stupid decision in recent UK history, all because he was frightened of Farage. He should have remained in the wilderness where he belonged).

 

[edwin_m]

There's always those who think turning the clock back is a good thing.

Make America Great Again is a good example from the States, but you'll see it a lot in a lot of politics. For example the Tories' "family values" from the 1990's.

I'd say bringing back some of the pre-2016 figures is definitely less bad than the most recent incumbents (this applies to replacing Kwarteng with Hunt too). And remember it cold have been worse - it could have been Osborne.

 

[nw1]

There's always those who think turning the clock back is a good thing.

Make America Great Again is a good example from the States, but you'll see it a lot in a lot of politics. For example the Tories' "family values" from the 1990's.

And we know what happened with that of course

"Back To Basics". I remember it well. October 1993 conference.

I actually think Major was, by some way, the least-bad Tory PM of my lifetime (well, discounting Heath who I don't remember). But that was scarcely his finest moment.

 

[Thirteen]

Cameron is such a weird choice considering he's not an MP anymore. Was there no one in the current cabinet that wanted the job?

 

[nlogax]

Was there no one in the current cabinet that wanted the job?

Probably no-one deemed talented enough. The *real* job no-one actually wants is Housing Minister.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

And we know what happened with that of course

"Back To Basics". I remember it well. October 1993 conference.

I actually think Major was, by some way, the least-bad Tory PM of my lifetime (well, discounting Heath who I don't remember). But that was scarcely his finest moment.

Heath was a disaster his chaotic approach in the early 70's let Labour who had no idea at all leaving the door wide open for Thatcher to walk through. Personally FPTP is no longer relevant in this country we need a grand coalition that can stay the course to bring a new approach and longer term stability. Yes it wont be that effective but it wont be radically either left or right.

 

[Thirteen]

I get the sense that Cameron is taking as a one time only gig since it's unlikely the Torys are winning the next election.

 

[RT4038]

what will the rest of Europe think? They'll think the UK Government is a joke, if they didn't do already, of course.

I doubt that very much. Some of them are probably thinking that they are only a cat's whisker away from similar situations, and just glad it's not currently happening to them. I expect most european governments are well aware of the history and reasons and are quite understanding.

 

[Gloster]

I get the sense that Cameron is taking as a one time only gig since it's unlikely the Torys are winning the next election.

Cynically, one could wonder if the opportunities for him to make money are not coming in so frequently. After all, there is hardly a shortage of former Conservative PMs. Foreign Secretary puts him back in the limelight and will raise his profile amongst those who will wish to hear his words of wisdom when he is out of office again.

More seriously, there are some questions to be asked about the wisdom of the appointment. He has been called the most pro-Israeli PM of all, which may ruffle a few feathers at the moment, and he has been somewhat friendly towards China. He did not distinguish himself over Ukraine in 2014, but most of Europe will see him as the man who completely messed up things and caused Brexit. Additionally, having him in the Lords has a whiff of old-fashioned, out-of-date paternalism.

 

[Mag_seven]

So we have appointed a non elected semi retired "has been" to the post of Foreign Secretary at a time of heightened world tension making him a Lord at a drop of a hat. He won't be accountable to the House of Commons as he is not an MP. What sort of a democracy is this?

 

[Howardh]

So pretending to be very right wing didn't move the polls so now he's going to reinvent himself as a hug a hoody moderate. Surely nobody will fall for this crap ?

If Sunak still doesn't get a bounce in the polls, then he has only one place to go to win over us disaffected voters - much, much better relationship with the EU. Maybe including a rejoin referendum promise. The ultra-right's won't like it, but they aren't gonna be in power next year (at some point) and it puts clear water between them and Labour.

Meanwhile it has been noted that Cameron won't be answerable to our elected representatives, seeing as he isn't in the HoC. Unelected bureaucrat, anyone?? Where've I seen that before??

 

[Purple Train]

The Speaker, Sir Lindsay Hoyle, has promised to do everything in his power to ensure Lord Cameron is accountable to MPs. Given how far his power seemed to extend in the premiership of Boris J., I doubt that will go well.

 

[dangie]

Probably no-one deemed talented enough. The *real* job no-one actually wants is Housing Minister.

I know what you're saying, but my thoughts are that anyone with any real talent or skill wouldn't choose to go into politics.

 

[Howardh]

The Speaker, Sir Lindsay Hoyle, has promised to do everything in his power to ensure Lord Cameron is accountable to MPs. Given how far his power seemed to extend in the premiership of Boris J., I doubt that will go well.

What can he do? He can't frogmarch Cameron into the Commons, and if he did where would he sit? On the front bench as an unelected representative?? can of worms this one, but we did have Lord Carrington years ago in the same situation (under Thatcher??) I recall - vaguely!

 

[Purple Train]

What can he do? He can't frogmarch Cameron into the Commons, and if he did where would he sit? On the front bench as an unelected representative?? can of worms this one, but we did have Lord Carrington years ago in the same situation (under Thatcher??) I recall - vaguely!

Yes, Lord Carrington was Foreign Secretary from 1979 until 1982. And yes, there really isn't much he can do. According to the BBC, written questions can still be directed at Lord Cameron, which is better than nothing, I suppose.

 

[jfollows]

The Guardian points out that proposals already exist covering "Accountability to the House of Commons of Secretaries of State in the House of Lords" dating from 2010, at https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200910/cmselect/cmproced/496/496.pdf and attached here.

 

[JamesT]

More recent examples of Ministers in the Lords are Nicky Morgan at DCMS and back to the Brown era there was Lords Adonis and Mandelson.

 

[nlogax]

I know what you're saying, but my thoughts are that anyone with any real talent or skill wouldn't choose to go into politics.

That is a real problem. British politicians seem increasingly fed up of their careers before they're barely middle-aged.

 

[Busaholic]

Yes, Lord Carrington was Foreign Secretary from 1979 until 1982. And yes, there really isn't much he can do. According to the BBC, written questions can still be directed at Lord Cameron, which is better than nothing, I suppose.

For a few months in 1964-5 Patrick Gordon Walker was Foreign Secretary in Harold Wilson's new Labour government despite having lost his own parliamentary seat of Smethwick at the 1964 election, He tried to get re-elected as Leyton MP later in 1965 but the electors were having none of it and rejected him, I suspect this precedent will have dissuaded Sunak from suggesting Cameron stand for election as Wellingborough's MP when Peter Bone is forced to stand down and instead use the Lords as a convenient (for him) alternative.

 

[edwin_m]

For a few months in 1964-5 Patrick Gordon Walker was Foreign Secretary in Harold Wilson's new Labour government despite having lost his own parliamentary seat of Smethwick at the 1964 election, He tried to get re-elected as Leyton MP later in 1965 but the electors were having none of it and rejected him, I suspect this precedent will have dissuaded Sunak from suggesting Cameron stand for election as Wellingborough's MP when Peter Bone is forced to stand down and instead use the Lords as a convenient (for him) alternative.

I'm pretty sure Cameron would have refused that option if offered. He always struck me as too lazy to do much campaigning (or very much else). Plus the high probability of a humiliating defeat.

 

[birchesgreen]

Cameron was bought in so everyone talks about him and not Braverman. Seems to have worked.