RMT Industrial Action - EMR

[High Dyke]

Conveniently the weekend of Lincoln Christmas market.

I believe it's discussed elsewhere, but there's also engineering work affecting services to / from Lincoln that weekend too.

 

[43055]

I believe it's discussed elsewhere, but there's also engineering work affecting services to / from Lincoln that weekend too.

The East Coast services are diverting via the joint line but nothing affecting EMR services to/from Lincoln except variations to allow the diversions to happen looking at RTT.

 

[Class 170101]

The East Coast services are diverting via the joint line.

But not stopping most services there.

 

[Mugby]

I got the first EMR service from Sheffield to London last Sunday, the 0823. It was doubled up Meridians, as they promised the reduced strike day services would be.

However, only one TM was apparently available so the rear set was locked out of use. It sort of negated the idea really!

 

[Killingworth]

At last weeks Stakeholder Conference a question about strikes was turned aside with the answer that they were suspended, but without noting that trains were also still suspended.

At another pint during the day it was admitted that even without strikes it was getting harder to get enough crews to work on Sundays.

 

[Moonshot]

At last weeks Stakeholder Conference a question about strikes was turned aside with the answer that they were suspended, but without noting that trains were also still suspended.

At another pint during the day it was admitted that even without strikes it was getting harder to get enough crews to work on Sundays.

Getting staff to work Sunday has indeed become a bit more difficult....it's affecting TOCs everywhere. My own depot has a shortage of volunteers for this weekend, no doubt trains will be getting cancelled. It's a problem which isn't going to be solved easily ...... staff simply don't want Sunday in the working week.

 

[Robertj21a]

In many industries a requirement to work Sundays would be an integral part of the employment conditions. If it's a new requirement then it may well only apply to future new recruits. This doesn't seem to apply to the railways even though there are often multiple different Ts & Cs in place at most of them. Not surprising that the problem won't go away.

 

[LowLevel]

In many industries a requirement to work Sundays would be an integral part of the employment conditions. If it's a new requirement then it may well only apply to future new recruits. This doesn't seem to apply to the railways even though there are often multiple different Ts & Cs in place at most of them. Not surprising that the problem won't go away.

EMR drivers are already (mostly) on Sundays in the week. Many conductors and train managers have a grey area "commitment" to work them. This will be affirmed for conductors if this deal is accepted with new starters having them in their working week, so EMR all round should be less problematic than most.

However it is still a fact that when shortfalls occur, getting people to volunteer to work overtime on weekends is more difficult than weekdays and this will always be the case.

 

[Robertj21a]

EMR drivers are already (mostly) on Sundays in the week. Many conductors and train managers have a grey area "commitment" to work them. This will be affirmed for conductors if this deal is accepted with new starters having them in their working week, so EMR all round should be less problematic than most.

However it is still a fact that when shortfalls occur, getting people to volunteer to work overtime on weekends is more difficult than weekdays and this will always be the case.

Thanks for the update. It appears, from comments on other threads, that it's some other TOCs that have not yet achieved quite so much.....

 

[43055]

Details of the timetables for the 3/4th December are now on the strike action page. In short London services will be like Sundays with hourly to Corby, Nottingham and Sheffield. Regional routes will be reduced before 0800 and after 2000 with buses replacing cancelled services.

Temporary changes to EMR services due to industrial action. | EMR | East Midlands Railway

Route specific changes on the regional side:
Liverpool - Norwich:
Friday - run between Peterborough and Manchester only
Saturday - run between Nottingham and Manchester only

Newark - Crewe
Run between Derby and Crewe only

Lincoln - Nottingham
Limited changes due to the Christmas Markets. Some services will be run by 222's.

Nottingham - Skegness
Run between Nottingham and Grantham only

Doncaster - Peterborough
No trains

 

[nanstallon]

If anything good was to come from the government with respect to rail tomorrow, it would be making strikes within the industry illegal.

Although I am fed up with RMT calling strikes so often, and I believe that they are destroying reliability and public confidence in the railway, the right to withdraw labour is an essential part of a free society. Not many of us would want to live in an authoritarian state such as Pinochet's Chile.

 

[Mally66]

Surely the answer to double, suggested triple crewing of trains is to run them as fixed formations like the Class 700 and 755. TMs, catering staff and passengers have full access to the entire train. I'm no expert but it seems the logical answer to me. Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[dk1]

Surely the answer to double, suggested triple crewing of trains is to run them as fixed formations like the Class 700 and 755. TMs, catering staff and passengers have full access to the entire train. I'm no expert but it seems the logical answer to me. Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

But it only seems to be EMR that suffers this problem with multiple unit working. This might be an issue at St.Pancras where shared platform is required due to only 4 platforms being available. Not being pedantic, but I think you mean 745.

 

[Mally66]

But it only seems to be EMR that suffers this problem with multiple unit working. This might be an issue at St.Pancras where shared platform is required due to only 4 platforms being available. Not being pedantic, but I think you mean 745.

Oooops Typo

 

[londonmidland]

It seems anywhere West of Manchester and East of Grantham/Peterborough has been 'forgotten' about by EMR for quite a while now. Even with a reduced service, there are still cancellations affecting these services.

 

[HST43277]

Isn’t it a lack of train crew which is causing the EMR issues

 

[mpthomson]

Although I am fed up with RMT calling strikes so often, and I believe that they are destroying reliability and public confidence in the railway, the right to withdraw labour is an essential part of a free society. Not many of us would want to live in an authoritarian state such as Pinochet's Chile.

Many European countries that don't remotely resemble Pinochet's Chile have minimum service level legislation in situ to deal with industrial action.

 

[Deafdoggie]

Strikes save the government money. Saving money trumps everything else. The government really can't believe their luck that so many train crew support them.
Running a public service is a side issue. Saving government money is all they're interested in.

 

[High Dyke]

Surely the answer to double, suggested triple crewing of trains is to run them as fixed formations like the Class 700 and 755. TMs, catering staff and passengers have full access to the entire train. I'm no expert but it seems the logical answer to me. Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

Out of interest, what happens when two non-gangwayed units are coupled together? I believe that is one of the dispute matters (Class 360's)

 

[Mugby]

Out of interest, what happens when two non-gangwayed units are coupled together? I believe that is one of the dispute matters (Class 360's)

My recent experience, on Sheffield-London services, firstly on a strike day, then a non-strike day has been that if a second crew member isn't available, the rear set is locked out of use.

 

[High Dyke]

My recent experience, on Sheffield-London services, firstly on a strike day, then a non-strike day has been that if a second crew member isn't available, the rear set is locked out of use.

Imagine that passenger furore if that was the case with the Corby - London electrics. It's bad enough that management have forced the TU to take industrial action, from a travelling public viewpoint, without making a mockery of providing sufficient capacity. And to top it off they point their grubby fingers at everyone else!

 

[Robertj21a]

Imagine that passenger furore if that was the case with the Corby - London electrics. It's bad enough that management have forced the TU to take industrial action, from a travelling public viewpoint, without making a mockery of providing sufficient capacity. And to top it off they point their grubby fingers at everyone else!

How has the management forced the TU ?

 

[43066]

My recent experience, on Sheffield-London services, firstly on a strike day, then a non-strike day has been that if a second crew member isn't available, the rear set is locked out of use.

It is possible for 222s to operate in multiple with one guard in extremis. It’s decidedly sub-optimal for various reasons; calling at Long Eaton being a mighty big one, based on recent experience!

 

[High Dyke]

It is possible for 222s to operate in multiple with one guard in extremis. It’s decidedly sub-optimal for various reasons; calling at Long Eaton being a mighty big one, based on recent experience!

I did spot a couple of workings last week that were 'Fail to Stop' at Long Eaton due to train formation.

 

[43066]

I did spot a couple of workings last week that were 'Fail to Stop' at Long Eaton due to train formation.

The stops were removed on multiple unit weekend workings during the recent industrial action (and the amended timetable thereafter). These were dealt with initially via not to call orders and then amended diagrams. No doubt showed up as “not stopping” on RTT trains etc.

Note: that’s not the same thing as a “fail to call” where the driver simply forgets to stop at a station, or brakes too late, overshoots, and is instructed to continue by the signaller. That’s a whole different kettle of fish. Not one you ever want to sniff as a driver, so to speak!

 

[43055]

Changes are starting to filter through for Friday and Saturday on Real Time Trains so it does look like the strikes are going ahead really not good for anyone traveling on the regional routes in the morning as some routes don't start until around 10am including the Robin Hood Line which the first arrival into Nottingham is not until 1144!

 

[High Dyke]

The stops were removed on multiple unit weekend workings during the recent industrial action (and the amended timetable thereafter). These were dealt with initially via not to call orders and then amended diagrams. No doubt showed up as “not stopping” on RTT trains etc.

Note: that’s not the same thing as a “fail to call” where the driver simply forgets to stop at a station, or brakes too late, overshoots, and is instructed to continue by the signaller. That’s a whole different kettle of fish. Not one you ever want to sniff as a driver, so to speak!

Changes were shown as FTS on TRUST, but had the accompanying incident number to explain the change.

 

[PupCuff]

Aye, similar terms which can sometimes lead to some confusion.

Fail to Stop refers to performance, where a train is for instance diverted, or asked by control to run fast.

Fail to Call refers to an operating incident where a train passes a station where it was booked to call with no attempt made by the Driver to stop at that station - not always the Driver's fault, of course. (If the Driver makes an attempt to stop before the station but applies the brakes late, slips on leafy rails etc conventionally, conventionally that's referred to as a Station Overrun).

 

[LCC106]

Aye, similar terms which can sometimes lead to some confusion.

Fail to Stop refers to performance, where a train is for instance diverted, or asked by control to run fast.

Fail to Call refers to an operating incident where a train passes a station where it was booked to call with no attempt made by the Driver to stop at that station - not always the Driver's fault, of course. (If the Driver makes an attempt to stop before the station but applies the brakes late, slips on leafy rails etc conventionally, conventionally that's referred to as a Station Overrun).

So a FTS isn’t an issue so to speak as this is a non stop order? Would a failure to stop when issued a non-stop order be a failure to call? Just a bit confused here…

 

[Dieseldriver]

So a FTS isn’t an issue so to speak as this is a non stop order? Would a failure to stop when issued a non-stop order be a failure to call? Just a bit confused here…

Basically Fail To Call generally refers to a train not stopping at a station that it definitely should have stopped at (to be honest, in most cases it would be down to driver error but could also be as a result of a diagram misprint/error).
Fail To Stop refers to a scenario where a train is booked to stop at A B C and D but because of late running, a decision is made higher up to skip stopping at B and C and run fast from A to D so it can make some time up.