Rotala / Diamond Bus (North West)

[TheGrandWazoo]

Just get on with it and end deregulation. A question though - if Rotala are banned from tendering in Greater Manchester, would they also be banned from any new system, and thus banned from operating any bus in the area at all?

I'm guessing you're not old enough to remember the regulated world... It wasn't all hearts and flowers!

 

[winston270twm]

Ban can be overturned once Diamond have proved they have improved reliability on current tendered services

I understand the ban on new TfGM tenders may not be too far off being lifted.

 

[Goldfish62]

Just get on with it and end deregulation. A question though - if Rotala are banned from tendering in Greater Manchester, would they also be banned from any new system, and thus banned from operating any bus in the area at all?

Franchising would be under a completely new framework so that wouldn't necessarily follow, although bidders' past performance would undoubtedly be taken into account in the evaluation.

 

[markymark2000]

I do appreciate the point you're making and I'm loathe to take pot shots at firms. It's also true that it was the biggest move that they've made AND perhaps it has highlighted some issues and they will need time to put things right.

However, let's look at a few things...

• The driver shortage is caused by Rotala's reputation; that is their issue
• They may need a few weeks or more to sort this out - the TC isn't going to see it that way
• The Atherton move may prove counter-productive - could easily lose drivers who prefer to live/work locally; if you live in Leigh, you may as well work for Jim Stones (if they have a vacancy), Warrington or Stagecoach!

Rotala have a reputation and with good reason.

In the last year, I've had the chance to look at the Worcestershire operations which are shocking in terms of the vehicle presentation. They've also attracted the attention of the TC three times - 2014/2016/2018 for not operating to times in Worcestershire!

I can also point to some interesting experiences in the NW and with their Hallmark operations. If they've a reputational issue before, a big purchase and not getting it right seems to be compounding things.

Rotala have their down sides. I will certainly say that. From my experience though, they have been very good. I have used Diamond and Hallmark buses a few times and the majority were on time and in a presentable state. The way I see it, West Midlands hadn't done great. Hallmark just plods along and the North West also just plodded along. This year though, a lot has been invested into new buses and the West Midlands has improved it's overall quality. Worcestershire I believe is still a mess but all big operators have an area which is a mess.

If I was Rotala right now, I would have thrown in temporary timetables to reduce back high frequency routes while they get people in and trained up and try to focus on keeping routes operating. Driver shortages can happen to anyone at any time. There is a national shortage of commercial drivers right now so everyone is feeling the strain. Rotala has just become an easy target because of their previous reputation.

I think Rotala have just become an easy target because of their past. In my opinion though they are trying to turn things around and people need to give them chance.

 

[Anthony ross]

I’ve used rotala myself while I was In the Midlands last year and I’ve used hallmark and Preston bus this year and to be honest I can’t fault them

 

[KendalKing]

I understand the ban on new TfGM tenders may not be too far off being lifted.

I am surprised about that.

My in-laws live in Heywood, since Rotala / Diamond took-over from First, the bus services have become unreliable, partly because of the driver shortage.

I’ve used rotala myself while I was In the Midlands last year and I’ve used hallmark and Preston bus this year and to be honest I can’t fault them

I too have used Preston Bus, with-out any problems.

 

[winston270twm]

I am surprised about that.
My in-laws live in Heywood, since Rotala / Diamond took-over from First, the bus services have become unreliable, partly because of the driver shortage.

I understand the driver shortage is slowly improving, they've been running a recruitment campaign / with promotional offers for new starters and have also acquired 4 of the former First driver training B10BLE's.

 

[Alexbus12]

I understand the driver shortage is slowly improving, they've been running a recruitment campaign / with promotional offers for new starters and have also acquired 4 of the former First driver training B10BLE's.

Told it's getting worse, drivers sick of the way they're being treated etc. And they have no parts for repairing buses, so are short on buses too. In my experience this week, it's still horrendous travelling on Diamond

 

[robertclark125]

Could the parts problem be due to the issues at Wrightbus?

 

[Alexbus12]

Could the parts problem be due to the issues at Wrightbus?

All I'll say is Rotala haven't had the best relationship with certain suppliers....

 

[LancasterRed]

Told it's getting worse, drivers sick of the way they're being treated etc. And they have no parts for repairing buses, so are short on buses too. In my experience this week, it's still horrendous travelling on Diamond

Same over in Preston too. Drivers are jumping over to Coastal Coaches. In this case though, drivers aren't happy with the timetables either. I'd anticipate it to be the same with the other local operations.

 

[winston270twm]

Told it's getting worse, drivers sick of the way they're being treated etc. And they have no parts for repairing buses, so are short on buses too. In my experience this week, it's still horrendous travelling on Diamond

I can't argue, you have a better local perspective compared with me. I was led to believe that things were slowly improving / heading in the right direction, from both ends i.e. management & a driver I speak with.

It will be interesting to see what Simon replies with on your latest comments on WMbus forum.

All I'll say is Rotala haven't had the best relationship with certain suppliers....

I'm assuming you're referring to vehicle suppliers over parts suppliers, if so, yes there's 'history' why there is a distant lack of a common brand of vehicle within the group fleet and orders instead went to Wrightbus & others. ​

 

[Alexbus12]

I can't argue, you have a better local perspective compared with me. I was led to believe that things were slowly improving / heading in the right direction, from both ends i.e. management & a driver I speak with.

It will be interesting to see what Simon replies with on your latest comments on WMbus forum.

I hadn't expected him to reply initially, so I do give him credit for it, and taking my criticisms without offence Was speaking to a driver just today who was saying that something like 15 boards are not running today.

 

[winston270twm]

All I'll say is Rotala haven't had the best relationship with certain suppliers....

I hadn't expected him to reply initially, so I do give him credit for it, and taking my criticisms without offence Was speaking to a driver just today who was saying that something like 15 boards are not running today.

He will typically always respond to you, even more so if you put your point across in the right way, he doesn't normally gloss over even negative comments/observations. Backing your point up with actual missing journeys / boards is even better still, he will check it out on the trackers & he also monitors customer complaints for all Diamond Bus ops (notice his reply was about 3.50am this morning as well)

 

[Alexbus12]

He will typically always respond to you, even more so if you put your point across in the right way, he doesn't normally gloss over even negative comments/observations. Backing your point up with actual missing journeys / boards is even better still, he will check it out on the trackers & he also monitors customer complaints for all Diamond Bus ops (notice his reply was about 3.50am this morning as well)

Yeah, I did notice, I was quite impressed.

 

[Alexbus12]

Diamond North Wests prices will change in February. It's going to be interesting to see how they justify it with the appalling network currently...
Note, M-Ticket tickets are cheaper than the on board price, and the rochdale road tickets have been reduced, I assume that's because of competition from GNW.

Day Tickets:

• Adult: £5.00 -> £5.10
• Adult m-ticket: £4.80 -> £5.00
• Child: £2.50 -> £2.60
• Child m-ticket: £2.40 -> £2.60
• Night: £4.50 -> £4.00
• Night m-ticket: £4.40
• Tendered: Withdrawn

Weekly Tickets:

• Adult: £17.00 -> £18.00
• Adult m-ticket: £16.00
• Child: £8.50 -> £9.00
• Child m-ticket: £8.00
• Supersaver: £12.00 -> £12.50
• Supersaver m-ticket: £11.00 -> £12.00
• Rochdale Road: £13.00 -> £12.20
• Rochdale Road m-ticket: £12.00 -> £11.40
• Rochdale Road Child: £6.50 -> £6.20
• Rochdale Road m-ticket: £6.00 -> £5.70

Other:

• 5-trip Carnet: £10.00 -> £12.00
• Annual: £648 -> £670

 

[Alexbus12]

Love some of the statements in this article. I note it makes no comment about Diamond not paying their suppliers for parts & fuel shortages at the depot which has also caused problems..

https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/new...nd-boss-pleads-more-time-improve-bus-service/

Bolton's Diamond boss pleads for 'more time' to improve bus service

The MANAGING director of Diamond Bus North West has asked the public to be patient with their services.

Bob Dunn spoke after the company’s big announcement to ask for “more time” to fix the problems encountered by the service so far.

He said: “We’re prepared to put that investment in the hope that people will support us.

“We’re on a journey and it’s going to take a bit of time to get there.

“Please just give me a bit more time – it will get there and we’ll keep pushing for it to get better.”

Mr Dunn, who has 48 years of experience in the transport industry, wants to hear what the public think of the routes run by Diamond.

The feedback will be used by the company to target the improvements most desired by service users

He added: “We need to know what we can do better, we want to help people and we want them to support us.

“People don’t want to be hanging around waiting for a bus, they don’t want to be on a bus for two hours.


“Now we’ve taken over one part of First’s presence in Bolton there’s three providers instead of one and that’s got to be good for customers.

“We’re in competition with each other and it means we’re all trying to be better.”

Diamond bought the Weston Street depot from First Manchester in August 2019.

Along with the site, the company also took on 18 commercial bus routes in Bolton and Bury.

The £5.3m takeover saw 500 staff transfer to Rotala, Diamond’s parent company, with the firm also keeping the original First fleet on loan.

Diamond has had a tough time adapting to the changes over the last six months, with people complaining of late and unreliable services.

These difficulties have been blamed on a variety of engineering hiccups, with the old buses from First needing more maintenance to keep them on the roads.

In addition to this, the team did not have a pre-existing relationship with Alexander Dennis, the manufacturers of the model, which made it more difficult for them to locate spare parts.

Diamond started to introduce their own fleet to the depot, attempting to improve the reliability of buses, but inadvertently gave themselves another challenge to overcome.

The team went from having two models of bus to work on, to 19 different models that all needed maintaining and fixing.

Engineers had to get used to the 17 new models, taking longer to get them back on the road than the older, less reliable models.

Each vehicle is serviced every 35 days, and the Bolton depot is also responsible for completing MOTs on all buses that cover Bolton, Preston, and Eccles.

When asked about what customers can expect from Diamond in the future, Mr Dunn said: “We’re going to be more active on social media, we’ve got the phones and an email address already, we just need people to use them and let us know what problems they’re facing.


“I want people to get what they expect they’re buying, at the price they think is fair, and when they expect it to turn up.

“If they think the fair rate would be £2.20 or £10 then that’s what it should be – I don’t want anybody to have to feel like they don’t get what they expect.

“We need to be creative about services, for example, if we had a service from Bolton to Manchester city centre that has 12 stops along the way we could look at putting an express service in place if that’s needed.

“It’s about working together with our passengers, our staff, the Highways Agency, and TFGM to make sure that service improves for people and it’s what they expect.”

In the last six months, Diamond has recruited 60 new drivers, and intends to recruit a further 40 by July.

The Bolton depot now has 449 drivers on site, and 83 engineers and cleaners to keep the buses on the road.

All of the 172 buses are refuelled and cleaned every evening

 

[carlberry]

Love some of the statements in this article. I note it makes no comment about Diamond not paying their suppliers for parts & fuel shortages at the depot which has also caused problems..

https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/new...nd-boss-pleads-more-time-improve-bus-service/

Obviously there will be issues with change and there's the promise of a seriously large investment in new buses to come however some of the things in the article are schoolboy stuff (assuming the article is actually what was said/meant).

The First fleet at takeover was known so shouldn't be a surprise.

I don't know how Rotola haven't got a relationship with ADL when they operate ADL in other places, they must know the telephone number at least or are all the other vehicles off the road as soon as they need a spare part!

Being surprised by the effect on maintenance requirements of changing from 2 to 19 different types? Will these people be surprised to find out the pope is Catholic?

Bolton being responsible for MOTs from Preston? I assume Preston had vehicles MOTed before so this must have been a business decision to save costs.

As I said the promised investment is great, however the reasons why things aren't great at present sound fairly amateur.

 

[robertclark125]

With regards to ADL, last year, Stagecoach East Scotland received 18 brand new ADL E400MMCs, and one of them arrived carrying Preston Bus legal lettering. ADL simply put the wrong legals on, but John Asquith told me in an email, they have been considering, at Preston Bus, ADL recently. In fact, they have looked at a possible demonstrator from ADL, which may also explain the mix up with the wrong legals on the East Scotland E400MMC.

While on the topic of MOTs, I would've thought that, until the Bolton takeover, Preston Bus vehicles would've been done at Eccles, and before this, Preston Bus vehicles would've went elsewhere, perhaps even to Stagecoach, for MOT (Stagecoach does MOT prep for Preston Bus, and has done so since 2011).

 

[winston270twm]

With regards to ADL, last year, Stagecoach East Scotland received 18 brand new ADL E400MMCs, and one of them arrived carrying Preston Bus legal lettering. ADL simply put the wrong legals on, but John Asquith told me in an email, they have been considering, at Preston Bus, ADL recently. In fact, they have looked at a possible demonstrator from ADL, which may also explain the mix up with the wrong legals on the East Scotland E400MMC.

While on the topic of MOTs, I would've thought that, until the Bolton takeover, Preston Bus vehicles would've been done at Eccles, and before this, Preston Bus vehicles would've went elsewhere, perhaps even to Stagecoach, for MOT (Stagecoach does MOT prep for Preston Bus, and has done so since 2011).

Rotala & ADL have past history, it's unlikely Rotala HQ will buy new from ADL, the majority of ADL buses operated by Rotala were all inherited with various acquisitions.

 

[trubla]

BBC Northern Ireland news website is saying that Rotala has ordered 163 buses, with 128 of these being double deckers.
The new double decker buses are Street Deck models, and have been ordered to supply Rotala's Diamond Bus North West subsidiary, for delivery this year.

The other 35 buses will be single-decker Street Lite models, and will supply the Diamond Bus network, as well as bus services in Preston, the Midlands, and at Heathrow Airport.

 

[winston270twm]

BBC Northern Ireland news website is saying that Rotala has ordered 163 buses, with 128 of these being double deckers.
The new double decker buses are Street Deck models, and have been ordered to supply Rotala's Diamond Bus North West subsidiary, for delivery this year.

The other 35 buses will be single-decker Street Lite models, and will supply the Diamond Bus network, as well as bus services in Preston, the Midlands, and at Heathrow Airport.

There's no Streetlites due for Preston, they are due 4 x Streetdecks

 

[darloscott]

Perhaps worthy of discussion is Rotala's Hallmark have picked up contracted route 250 between Bicester and Oxford from July. It will replace the Bicester Village shuttle which will be operated by Oxford Bus.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Perhaps worthy of discussion is Rotala's Hallmark have picked up contracted route 250 between Bicester and Oxford from July. It will replace the Bicester Village shuttle which will be operated by Oxford Bus.

That is an interesting move. Also, given that Stagecoach is the main operator in Bicester, that they've not got it nor the Shuttle.

 

[cnjb8]

Perhaps worthy of discussion is Rotala's Hallmark have picked up contracted route 250 between Bicester and Oxford from July. It will replace the Bicester Village shuttle which will be operated by Oxford Bus.

It seems strange Rotala want to maintain a presence in Bicester.

 

[duncombec]

It seems strange Rotala want to maintain a presence in Bicester.

Might it work out for them in that one cancels out the other? Aren't they both normally two bus workings in normal circumstances, so they have buses and have drivers?

 

[cnjb8]

Following on from two Wright StreetDecks arriving at Preston, the first StreetDeck has arrived at Bolton.

 

[Alexbus12]

Following on from two Wright StreetDecks arriving at Preston, the first StreetDeck has arrived at Bolton.

What's the deal with no tree guards?

 

[507021]

What's the deal with no tree guards?

I noticed that as well.

A very unusual omission.

 

[LancasterRed]

Especially seeing as the 23 route goes through parts where a tree guard should be necessary, and that's the flagship route the new Streetdecks will run!