Royal Mail to cease using trains

[Northerngirl]

I'd not realised they were going so soon, any chance of them being out in the next weeks for ecs moves or is today it

 

[sh24]

I saw a blur of red as the 1M27 passed me on the 1S69. Odd to think there will be no more Royal Mail branded carriages on the network from tomorrow.

 

[najaB]

Odd to think there will be no more Royal Mail branded carriages on the network from tomorrow.

The end of an era.

Mandatory reference to Auden's Night Mail:

 

[WesternLancer]

I saw a blur of red as the 1M27 passed me on the 1S69. Odd to think there will be no more Royal Mail branded carriages on the network from tomorrow.

Yes, a great shame.

 

[Freightmaster]

The end of an era.

Mandatory reference to Auden's Night Mail

Equally mandatory reference to this superb tribute from Public Service Broadcasting:

Alright boys, stand clear!

"830 pm, Weekdays and Sundays:
The down Postal Special leaves Euston for Glasgow, Edinburgh and Aberdeen"

"The Postal Special is a fast express, but it carries no passengers;
Half a million letters are sorted and picked up or dropped during the night"

This is the Night Mail crossing the border
Bringing the cheque and the postal order
Letters for the rich, letters for the poor
The shop at the corner and the girl next door

Five hundred million letters every year!

"Trains from Bristol, Cardiff, Manchester, Stoke, Liverpool and Birmingham
bring a thousand bags of mail to the north"

This is the Night Mail crossing the border
Bringing the cheque and the postal order
Letters for the rich, letters for the poor
The shop at the corner and the girl next door...

Now!

This is the Night Mail crossing the border
Bringing the cheque and the postal order
Letters for the rich, letters for the poor
The shop at the corner and the girl next door
Pulling up Beattock, a steady climb
The gradient's against her, but she's on time
This is the Night Mail crossing the border
Bringing the cheque and the postal order
Letters for the rich, letters for the poor
The shop at the corner and the girl next door
Pulling up Beattock, a steady climb
The gradient's against her, but she's on time
Past cotton-grass and moorland boulder
Shovelling white steam over her shoulder
Snorting noisily as she passes
The silent miles of wind-bent grasses
Birds turn their heads as she approaches
Stare from the bushes at her blank-faced coaches
This is the Night Mail crossing the border
Bringing the cheque and the postal order
Letters for the rich, letters for the poor
The shop at the corner and the girl next door
Pulling up Beattock, a steady climb
The gradient's against her, but she's on time...

She's on time

 

[zwk500]

The end of an era.

Hasn't it ended once before? If it could come back once...

 

[WesternLancer]

Equally mandatory reference to this superb tribute from Public Service Broadcasting:

Superb!

 

[Ghostbus]

I'm pretty sure this is about speed not volume.

The EMUs and their depots were designed for speed, both in transit and loading. If as seems likely, less and less of RMs letters will need such speed, and if as seems likely, the parcels market has seen a slught but significant shift away from speed to cost/convenience, then the time comes when the stuff that needs speed can be handed by a few trucks, and the rest can wait so it can be handled more like actual fast but bulky freight - contract providers and flexible flows.

The speedy stuff will need far less trucks than is being talked about here to replace just one train, and they will have the added benefit of being able to work a larger network. And of course, such a thing would fit naturally into RMs existing road network.

The rest of the existing volume can still go by mail, for both a cost and PR benefit,, hence the statement. Hopefully the soon to be nationalized railway realises that such things only work if the customer's needs are given the first, second and third priority. The government has already said it can't afford to nationalise RM, which is probably just an excuse, since they know a nationalized RM wouldn't be able to compete in the parts sector, so the entire bill for universal post would instantly appear on the Treasury's books, with people demanding it should actually be higher, for reasons.

Presumably there will be minimal job losses in this scenario, even some extra truck driving roles. And if this shift does result in significant net loss of roles, that would suggest the rail operation wasn't as efficient as people assume. There is a price to be paid for being a stoic defender of worker's rights and a stern believer in eternal pay rises entirely detached from the real world economy. That price is the higher cost of directly employed inflexible labour, compared to say, fuel, rent, capital investment.

And with an eye to the shift to carbon neutral, where would you rather be in the rail sector? The people who run the trains, or the people who merely contract them?

Electric trucks are already a reality, and the only barrier to being able to have one driver escort a slaved convoy of five or even ten maximum weight lorries up and down two fixed terminals on the motorway network, is regulation. Political will. Does the government really want a cheaper Mail service? Then do something about it. Paper has to be moved somehow. If you can't make the fuel or wages cheaper or the drivers work longer or the trucks move faster, then there really is only one other variable. Volume.

 

[najaB]

Hasn't it ended once before? If it could come back once...

The stock going for scrap (if true) might make that less likely.

 

[Nym]

The stock going for scrap (if true) might make that less likely.

Plenty of RoSCos turning their old EMUs into mail trains, or trying to in an attempt to use their old assets.

 

[hwl]

Plenty of RoSCos turning their old EMUs into mail trains, or trying to in an attempt to use their old assets.

All of which have better traction system efficiency than the 325s and most would probably have lower maintenance costs too.

RM would probably want to outsource the asset cost in the future as well.

 

[Bezza49]

Another step backwards in this country. More stuff on roads. Yet we are told about how "green" we all need to be. Pfffffftttt.

 

[dk1]

Market forces I’m afraid.

 

[Freightmaster]

I'd not realised they were going so soon, any chance of them being out in the next weeks for ecs moves...?

Just this one, as far as I am aware:

Realtime Trains | 5M27 1223 Mossend Down Yard to Willesden Prdc | 24/09/2024

Real-time train running information for 5M27 1223 departure from Mossend Down Yard to Willesden Prdc on 24/09/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

MARK

 

[Gloster]

That first video has a right mixture: LNER, GWR, LT and S&D (nice to see the tablet catcher). And a subtle hint that your letter to Scotland will end up in Radstock or Holyhead.

 

[Ghostbus]

Another step backwards in this country. More stuff on roads. Yet we are told about how "green" we all need to be. Pfffffftttt.

What is remotely green about moving bits of paper around via any means? Use a Star Trek transporter and you still have the energy requirement to make the stuff, even recycled. And it's not like printing is an eco friendly industry.

 

[Spaceship323]

What is remotely green about moving bits of paper around via any means? Use a Star Trek transporter and you still have the energy requirement to make the stuff, even recycled. And it's not like printing is an eco friendly industry.

And it's not all traditional mail either, it's mostly fliers for junk mail for which Royal Mail probably get paid handsomely to distribute on behalf of their customers...the Distribution Centre at Warrington is full of the stuff

 

[najaB]

What is remotely green about moving bits of paper around via any means?

Almost half of Royal Mail's business these days is parcels rather than letters.

 

[MarkyT]

Almost half of Royal Mail's business these days is parcels rather than letters.

Indeed, but many smaller consignments are moved as 'large letter' which can be up to 35.3cm x 25cm x 2.5cm. Quite substantial books and products that can fold down or are loose in bags can sent for that rate if packaging can maintain the size requirements. The weight limit for large letter is 750g, though the price varies depending on weight. I wonder whether quoted proportions make the distinction regarding what is in 'letters'. I'm sure RM would rather people paid higher 'parcels' rates for these smaller items!

 

[D365]

All of which have better traction system efficiency than the 325s and most would probably have lower maintenance costs too.

The converted Class 321s retain the original GEC traction equipment - which itself was derived from Class 319 - so I can’t see how they are any different to the 325s.

 

[XCTurbostar]

Surely the most potent aspect of this transition to lorries is that Royal Mail has MORE control over lorries rather than the constrained paths on NR? I suspect this is also the reason none of the other parcel carriers have 'via rail' contracts.

 

[Skimpot flyer]

And it's not all traditional mail either, it's mostly fliers for junk mail for which Royal Mail probably get paid handsomely to distribute on behalf of their customers...the Distribution Centre at Warrington is full of the stuff

Totally untrue. Unaddressed mail like flyers are printed and distributed much more locally than you imagine, and delivered by the advertisers into RM Mail Centres, for transfer to delivery offices in their catchment area. RM is not allowed, under their licence, to refuse this traffic.

The vast majority of the traffic on the trains was trolleys (‘Yorks’) of parcels and some letter trays, about 3% in fact.
Until about June of this year, the 16:16 from PRDC (1M96) ran to Warrington, with twelve carriages of Yorks of Tracked 24 packets and parcels for Scotland, back-filled with Tracked 48 for the same.

Latterly, there have been two 8-car services, one in each direction, between PRDC and Shieldmuir.
Yesterday’s 12:26 was the last train from PRDC; the last one TO Willesden left Shieldmuir at 12:34 and rolled into PRDC last night at 20:08, and where the units remain (for now).
The last train out was given a fond farewell with postal staff, managers, agency workers and visitors all on the Platform 1-2 island there to see it leave.

 

[WesternLancer]

Totally untrue. Unaddressed mail like flyers are printed and distributed much more locally than you imagine, and delivered by the advertisers into RM Mail Centres, for transfer to delivery offices in their catchment area. RM is not allowed, under their licence, to refuse this traffic.

The vast majority of the traffic on the trains was trolleys (‘Yorks’) of parcels and some letter trays, about 3% in fact.
Until about June of this year, the 16:16 from PRDC (1M96) ran to Warrington, with twelve carriages of Yorks of Tracked 24 packets and parcels for Scotland, back-filled with Tracked 48 for the same.

Latterly, there have been two 8-car services, one in each direction, between PRDC and Shieldmuir.
Yesterday’s 12:26 was the last train from PRDC; the last one TO Willesden left Shieldmuir at 12:34 and rolled into PRDC last night at 20:08, and where the units remain (for now).
The last train out was given a fond farewell with postal staff, managers, agency workers and visitors all on the Platform 1-2 island there to see it leave.

Helpful to read this account

Does anyone have any photos to share of the final runs over the last week or so?

 

[Ghostbus]

Surely the most potent aspect of this transition to lorries is that Royal Mail has MORE control over lorries rather than the constrained paths on NR? I suspect this is also the reason none of the other parcel carriers have 'via rail' contracts.

The irony being that on the roads, contract logistics with a sprinkling of spot hire, is far more common than owning your own fleet of trucks. Precisely because it allows for greater flexibility and an unceasing focus on efficiency.

 

[Rail Ranger]

Royal Mail said in their press release that in future they planned to use commercial rail freight services. Does anyone know what this actually means?

 

[purple-Azumas]

Does anyone have any photos to share of the final runs over the last week or so?

Certainly not up to the standard that some post on here (I was taking a video on my phone and waving - though not with the same hand I hasten to add!) but here are the last two southbound ones from yesterday (1M27 and 1M55) passing through Nuneaton:




(Images show 325001/002 and 325014/011 passing through Nuneaton p5 on 1M27 and 1M55 respectively, 20/09/24)

 

[WesternLancer]

Certainly not up to the standard that some post on here (I was taking a video on my phone and waving - though not with the same hand I hasten to add!) but here are the last two southbound ones from yesterday (1M27 and 1M55) passing through Nuneaton:

View attachment 165921
View attachment 165922

(Images show 325001/002 and 325014/011 passing through Nuneaton p5 on 1M27 and 1M55 respectively, 20/09/24)

Thanks! Nice to see those.

 

[12LDA28C]

Almost half of Royal Mail's business these days is parcels rather than letters.

It seems some contributors to this forum would have you believe they can be teleported instead...

 

[Nym]

All of which have better traction system efficiency than the 325s and most would probably have lower maintenance costs too.

RM would probably want to outsource the asset cost in the future as well.

The 769/9s currently being converted are of a lower traction efficiency and are heavier than the 325s, while maintaining the lack of ability to be towed by any locomotive and limited to those with translators.

The converted Class 321s retain the original GEC traction equipment - which itself was derived from Class 319 - so I can’t see how they are any different to the 325s.

That's because they're not, at all, they're exactly the same.

 

[DBS92042]

As far as I can work out, this is the current positioning of the 325 fleet:
325001 Willesden PRDC
325002 Willesden PRDC
325003 Crewe IEMD
325004 Crewe IEMD
325005 Mossend Yard
325006 Crewe IEMD
325007 Mossend Yard (with bad wheel flats)
325008 Mossend or Crewe?
325009 Mossend Yard
325011 Mossend Yard
325012 Mossend or Crewe?
325013 Mossend or Crewe?
325014 Mossend Yard
325015 Willesden PRDC?
325016 Crewe IEMD

Edit: A more recent and accurate list is provided by Adrian Barr in post #245