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Russia invades Ukraine

gingerheid

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Fixed that for you.

I think you unfixed it for me.

How can we differentiate Russia and Putin when it does as he says? https://www.vice.com/en/article/93agpa/russia-draft-war-ukraine was very instructive (particularly the direction the police are facing...). Clearly nobody agrees, but they won't say so because they think (or more realistically know, for who are we to call them stupid?) that getting killed or maimed in Ukraine probably isn't as bad as what will happen to them if they don't.
 
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Annetts key

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We might finally get some power stations built, also.
Careful, most of the time at the moment we, the U.K. mainland, are exporting electricity to France…
So I presume EDF still has not brought enough of their nuclear power plants online after repairs/maintenance. Having said that, France is exporting more electricity to other European countries than it’s importing.
 

Strathclyder

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How can we differentiate Russia and Putin when it does as he says? https://www.vice.com/en/article/93agpa/russia-draft-war-ukraine was very instructive (particularly the direction the police are facing...). Clearly nobody agrees, but they won't say so because they think (or more realistically know, for who are we to call them stupid?) that getting killed or maimed in Ukraine probably isn't as bad as what will happen to them if they don't.
In general, yes. But, as we of course know, not all of them did as he said. Some bravely came out in protest against the war despite knowing what the consequences were likely going to be (a whole lot worse than if they were sent into the woodchipper in Ukraine). Some just straight up went 'to hell with this' and left the country by any means available to them when the partial draft was announced. Some soliders on the frontline took the first opportunity presented to them and fled/defected.

Yes, I'm of course fully aware this didn't/doesn't apply to every ordinary Russian civilian or soldier, but some have publicly defied Putin and the harsh consequences for dissent of any kind.
 

gingerheid

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In general, yes. But, as we of course know, not all of them did as he said. Some bravely came out in protest against the war despite knowing what the consequences were likely going to be (a whole lot worse than if they were sent into the woodchipper in Ukraine). Some just straight up went 'to hell with this' and left the country by any means available to them when the partial draft was announced. Some soliders on the frontline took the first opportunity presented to them and fled/defected.

Yes, I'm of course fully aware this didn't/doesn't apply to every ordinary Russian civilian or soldier, but some have publicly defied Putin and the harsh consequences for dissent of any kind.

A country isn't defined by either the people who are no longer in it or by the exceptions to the rule.
 

Bald Rick

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Careful, most of the time at the moment we, the U.K. mainland, are exporting electricity to France…
So I presume EDF still has not brought enough of their nuclear power plants online after repairs/maintenance. Having said that, France is exporting more electricity to other European countries than it’s importing.

EDF are Progressively bringing them back on line.
 

Cloud Strife

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There is lot of wishful thinking on this topic.

From your side, yes. It's quite remarkable how you seem to be repeating Russian propaganda, much of which is indeed wishful thinking.

We are caught up in a civil war in the former Soviet Union and at a globally more serious level than that when Yugoslavia broke up. Ordinary citizens who'd previously got along together are being killed with no peaceful end in sight, only devasted countrside to be restored and international economies rebuilt.

This is not a civil war. This is the invasion and annexation of territory by an aggressor state against an independent state, that is Ukraine.

The Russian forces have been badly deployed but still hold the greater part of the territory they have claimed.

Russia has effectively held large parts of Luhansk and Donetsk plus the Crimean peninsular since 2014. They are determined to hold it.

They already lost a significant percentage of territory that they initially claimed. They don't have full control of Luhansk or Donetsk Oblasts, and by all accounts, they're being beaten back as and when Ukraine finds gaps in their defences. The Ukrainian forces aren't even trying large attacks, they're simply decimating Russian logistics and then progressing when the conditions are favourable.

They might be determined to hold on, but when you see what's happening on the ground, they have little chance of holding on as it currently stands. Crimea is a different story, but privately, most Ukrainians will tell you that it's not that big a deal to them.


Russia has demonstrated ability to take out Ukrainian energy infrastructure almost at will making it increasingly difficult for industrial and domestic users.

This will end with Russian energy infrastructure being similarly hit. Furthermore, most analysts agree that Ukraine is proceeding to the point where they will simply upgrade their air defences so that their energy infrastructure cannot be hit. If this winter is mild (and so far, it is), then it becomes even less of an issue.

This conflict began because many inhabitants of Luhansk, Crimea and Donetsk were genuinely unhappy with their government in Kyiv. A significant number took up arms. It's not clear that a restoration of the pre 2014 borders would solve the underlying problems (Russia retained control of miltary areas in Crimea before 2014).

This is revisionist at best, dangerous at worst. The conflict began because Russia invaded. There is nothing more to it: the invasion and takeover of Crimea and parts of Luhansk/Donetsk was orchestrated and carried out by Russians from Russia.

Restoring the pre-2014 borders combined with detention/deportation of those collaborating would certainly go a long way to solving things. Autonomy for Crimea and Luhansk/Donetsk is a possible solution, provided that there are strict limits on any knd of collaboration with Russia.


The longer this goes on the more other powers look to take advantage elsewhere as our attention and resources are diverted. Wars are a lot harder to stop than to start. They tend to escalate.

What's the answer? With so much devastation and so many having fled it's not realistic to expect all to want to return, whether to Ukraine or their former homes. Somewhere, sometime there has to be compromise. That will then bring decades of other issues. In the meantime more misery.

The answer is to supply Ukraine with the weapons that she needs. We already know that HIMARS is tearing Russia to pieces, so let's deliver significantly more and let Russia feel the pain. The point will come when no-one will want to go within 70km of the front line.

Putin is a snake and will bring in China if given a chance. And China will take Taiwan given half a chance, illogical though that seems to us. We live in very dangerous times when we desperately need strong and intelligent western leadership. Oh dear!

China has no reason to get involved. They see history in terms of thousands of years, and they know a broken and defeated Russia in chaos will give them control of Russian energy supplies.
 

TheEdge

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There is lot of wishful thinking on this topic.

And pretty much every non-Russian intelligence agency, defense ministry or OSINT group.

We are caught up in a civil war in the former Soviet Union and at a globally more serious level than that when Yugoslavia broke up. Ordinary citizens who'd previously got along together are being killed with no peaceful end in sight, only devasted countrside to be restored and international economies rebuilt.

Websters defines a civil war as "a war between opposing groups of citizens of the same country", this is not a civil war. The USSR hasn't existed for over 30 years, this is an invasion going badly wrong for an authoritarian regime. Calling this a civil war is like calling skirmishes between India and Pakistan a civil war in the British Raj.

The Russian forces have been badly deployed but still hold the greater part of the territory they have claimed.

Ukranian thunder runs and the abandonment of Kharkiv would like to disagree.

Russia has effectively held large parts of Luhansk and Donetsk plus the Crimean peninsular since 2014. They are determined to hold it.

At least you will admit the Donbass was a Russian annexation not an independence movement.

Russia has demonstrated ability to take out Ukrainian energy infrastructure almost at will making it increasingly difficult for industrial and domestic users.

So, like when Russia demonstrated its MLRS and artillery advantage the west sent HIMARS, M270s, Pzh2000s, Krabs and M777s to negate that the west will now start sending AA systems. And I hope those Iranian drones were worth finally giving Israel reason to act. Iron Dome for Kyiv and Mossad busying themselves in Iran against drone facilities. Vlad is a tactical genius.

This conflict began because many inhabitants of Luhansk, Crimea and Donetsk were genuinely unhappy with their government in Kyiv. A significant number took up arms. It's not clear that a restoration of the pre 2014 borders would solve the underlying problems (Russia retained control of miltary areas in Crimea before 2014).

Amazing how many of the "Ukranian" separatists appeared to be in the Russian military...

What's the answer? With so much devastation and so many having fled it's not realistic to expect all to want to return, whether to Ukraine or their former homes. Somewhere, sometime there has to be compromise. That will then bring decades of other issues. In the meantime more misery.

No compromise, as long as Kyiv wants its territory back then thats the only solution.

Putin is a snake and will bring in China if given a chance. And China will take Taiwan given half a chance, illogical though that seems to us. We live in very dangerous times when we desperately need strong and intelligent western leadership. Oh dear!

Yea, not gonna happen. China is smarter than getting involved in this and also now has one hell of a demonstration of how the "West" will react to a land grab. Although in fairness in the China case the "West" will be the US, Japan and South Korea.
 

DustyBin

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And pretty much every non-Russian intelligence agency, defense ministry or OSINT group.



Websters defines a civil war as "a war between opposing groups of citizens of the same country", this is not a civil war. The USSR hasn't existed for over 30 years, this is an invasion going badly wrong for an authoritarian regime. Calling this a civil war is like calling skirmishes between India and Pakistan a civil war in the British Raj.



Ukranian thunder runs and the abandonment of Kharkiv would like to disagree.



At least you will admit the Donbass was a Russian annexation not an independence movement.



So, like when Russia demonstrated its MLRS and artillery advantage the west sent HIMARS, M270s, Pzh2000s, Krabs and M777s to negate that the west will now start sending AA systems. And I hope those Iranian drones were worth finally giving Israel reason to act. Iron Dome for Kyiv and Mossad busying themselves in Iran against drone facilities. Vlad is a tactical genius.



Amazing how many of the "Ukranian" separatists appeared to be in the Russian military...



No compromise, as long as Kyiv wants its territory back then thats the only solution.



Yea, not gonna happen. China is smarter than getting involved in this and also now has one hell of a demonstration of how the "West" will react to a land grab. Although in fairness in the China case the "West" will be the US, Japan and South Korea.

I’ve not much to add to this, other than to say that I could see a compromise being made over Crimea, if and when the time is right for Ukraine.

As for China invading Taiwan, I just don’t see it happening for the reasons we’ve all highlighted previously. It would be an absolute bloodbath. Plus the US would get involved, and the Chinese aren’t that stupid.
 

Roast Veg

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I agree that Putin would love for China to get involved, but what is in it for China? Yes, they could take Taiwan and deal with the massive political fallout from that, or they could simply stay uninvolved in the Ukraine conflict, wait for Russia to descend into chaos after they lose and then potentially recover some or all of the 200,000 square miles of territory it lost to Russia in the 1850s.
Taiwan is too profitable to China for any serious action on their side. If there's an invasion Taiwan Semiconductor shuts down almost immediately, and mainland China finds a hole where their electronics manufacturing used to be.

I think a civil war in China between the South and the North is more likely, when the ethnically diverse South realise that their subjugation by the Han is doing a lot more harm than good.
 

Annetts key

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I’ve not much to add to this, other than to say that I could see a compromise being made over Crimea, if and when the time is right for Ukraine.
I’m not so sure that a compromise could be made over Crimea. Ignoring all the Russians claims about the people of Crimea for the moment, one of the reasons Russia wanted total control of Crimea was to ensure they could continue to use the Port of Sevastopol.

With Russia being an aggressor, Ukraine would not want Russia to continue to be able to threaten its shipping routes in the Black Sea. So why would they ever agree for Russia to continue to control and use the Port of Sevastopol?

Similarly, Russia would never want to give up control of the Port of Sevastopol.

If Ukraine decides it wants an effective navy, having the Port of Sevastopol would be a huge advantage to them.
 

brad465

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I’m not so sure that a compromise could be made over Crimea. Ignoring all the Russians claims about the people of Crimea for the moment, one of the reasons Russia wanted total control of Crimea was to ensure they could continue to use the Port of Sevastopol.

With Russia being an aggressor, Ukraine would not want Russia to continue to be able to threaten its shipping routes in the Black Sea. So why would they ever agree for Russia to continue to control and use the Port of Sevastopol?

Similarly, Russia would never want to give up control of the Port of Sevastopol.

If Ukraine decides it wants an effective navy, having the Port of Sevastopol would be a huge advantage to them.
Speaking of the Port of Sevastopol, there are numerous reports of another drone attack there overnight, which Russia claim to have repelled. If it's serious enough we will probably see more concrete reports outlining what exactly happened soon.
 

DustyBin

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I’m not so sure that a compromise could be made over Crimea. Ignoring all the Russians claims about the people of Crimea for the moment, one of the reasons Russia wanted total control of Crimea was to ensure they could continue to use the Port of Sevastopol.

With Russia being an aggressor, Ukraine would not want Russia to continue to be able to threaten its shipping routes in the Black Sea. So why would they ever agree for Russia to continue to control and use the Port of Sevastopol?

Similarly, Russia would never want to give up control of the Port of Sevastopol.

If Ukraine decides it wants an effective navy, having the Port of Sevastopol would be a huge advantage to them.

I agree it’s complicated and I wouldn’t like to make a prediction as to how the Crimea issue will eventually be resolved. I know what I’d like to happen, but I’m really struggling to see Russia relinquishing control. Whether Ukraine can forcibly remove them therefore is the question.
 

brad465

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Speaking of the Port of Sevastopol, there are numerous reports of another drone attack there overnight, which Russia claim to have repelled. If it's serious enough we will probably see more concrete reports outlining what exactly happened soon.
Here we go:


Ukraine has carried out a "massive" drone attack on the Black Sea Fleet in the Crimean port city of Sevastopol, damaging one warship, Russia says.
Nine drones were used, a top official said. Ukraine has not commented.
Without providing evidence, Russia accused British troops of being involved in Saturday's attack - and in blowing up gas pipelines last month.
In its response, the UK Ministry of Defence (MoD) said Russia was "peddling false claims of an epic scale".
Russia said the ships targeted in Saturday's attack were involved in the internationally-brokered deal to allow grain exports from Ukrainian ports and hours later announced that it was suspending its participation in it.
The attack comes as Ukrainian troops successfully retake territory occupied by Russian troops since they launched their invasion on 24 February.
Russia has replied by launching large-scale attacks on Ukrainian infrastructure, particularly on the country's energy grid.
Crimea was annexed by Russia from Ukraine in 2014 and is extremely symbolic for Russian President Vladimir Putin.
In recent weeks, several attacks have hit the peninsula, where the Russian army has built up a large presence.
Sevastopol is the largest city in the region and home to Russia's Black Sea fleet.
Mikhail Razvozhaev, the Russian-installed governor of the city, said Russia's navy had repelled the latest attack - the "most massive" on the city since February.
He said that all unmanned aerial vehicles (UAV) had been shot down and no "civilian infrastructure" had been damaged.
At least one vessel sustained minor damage, the Russian ministry of defence said.
"In the course of repelling a terrorist attack on the outer roadstead of Sevastopol, the use of naval weapons and naval aviation of the Black Sea Fleet destroyed four marine unmanned vehicles, three more devices were destroyed on the internal roadstead," a statement from the ministry read.
The Ukrainian government rarely comments on claims made by Russian authorities in Crimea, although senior officials often celebrate incidents in the peninsula.

Ukraine has vowed to recapture all territory that is under Russian occupation, including Crimea, which has been a key base for President Putin's forces during the invasion of Ukraine.
Without providing any evidence, the Russian defence ministry also accused British navy specialists of helping Ukrainian forces prepare the attack on Saturday morning.
It also said the same unit was "involved in plotting, organising, and implementation of the terrorist attack in the Baltic Sea on 26 September this year to blow up the Nord Stream 1 and Nord Stream 2 gas pipelines".
In its reply, the MoD said: "To detract from their disastrous handling of the illegal invasion of Ukraine, the Russian Ministry of Defence is resorting to peddling false claims of an epic scale.
"This invented story, says more about arguments going on inside the Russian Government than it does about the west."
In recent days, Russia has been engaged in what US and Ukrainian officials describe as a disinformation campaign, with unsubstantiated claims that Kyiv is preparing to use a radioactive dirty bomb, or even biological mosquitoes.
Russia has also claimed that the ships targeted on Saturday morning were involved in ensuring the "grain corridor" as part of the international initiative to export agricultural products from Ukrainian ports.
The agreement, brokered by the UN and Turkey, allowed Ukraine to resume its Black Sea grain exports, which had been blocked when Russia invaded the country. It was personally negotiated by the UN secretary general and celebrated as a major diplomatic victory that helped ease a global food crisis.
But Russia complains that its own exports are still hindered, and had previously suggested it might not renew the deal.
In recent days, Kyiv has accused Moscow of deliberately delaying the passage of ships, creating a queue of more than 170 vessels.
Russia's Black Sea Fleet was previously targeted in April this year by Ukrainian forces when its flagship, the cruiser Moskva, was sunk. The 510-crew missile cruiser had led Russia's naval assault on Ukraine, and its sinking was a major symbolic and military blow.
Earlier this month, a blast occurred on the Crimean bridge - a pivotal symbol of Russia's annexation of Crimea.
The blast killed three people, Russian investigators said.
 

Cloud Strife

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Speaking of the Port of Sevastopol, there are numerous reports of another drone attack there overnight, which Russia claim to have repelled. If it's serious enough we will probably see more concrete reports outlining what exactly happened soon.

It looks like Ukraine did this to highlight the weaknesses in the Russian defences more than anything. It must be unsettling for the Russian military leadership to know that Ukraine is still capable of getting through to Sevastopol, even if they didn't cause any serious damage.

I’ve not much to add to this, other than to say that I could see a compromise being made over Crimea, if and when the time is right for Ukraine.

My gut feeling is that if Ukraine reaches the gates of Crimea, then the US may quietly suggest to Ukraine that they'll supply a lot of decent military equipment in exchange for not entering Crimea. With Kherson, Kharkiv, Luhansk and Donetsk oblasts full of NATO-quality equipment and fast track NATO membership, Ukraine might well agree to stop at the borders of Crimea.

As for China invading Taiwan, I just don’t see it happening for the reasons we’ve all highlighted previously. It would be an absolute bloodbath. Plus the US would get involved, and the Chinese aren’t that stupid.

The Chinese know fine well that there's nothing to gain from Taiwan and everything to lose. They're also much, much better at diplomacy than Russia ever will be.

China taking advantage of Russian instability to get their hands on large amounts of energy from Siberia? Conceivable.
 

Mogster

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It looks like Ukraine did this to highlight the weaknesses in the Russian defences more than anything. It must be unsettling for the Russian military leadership to know that Ukraine is still capable of getting through to Sevastopol, even if they didn't cause any serious damage.



My gut feeling is that if Ukraine reaches the gates of Crimea, then the US may quietly suggest to Ukraine that they'll supply a lot of decent military equipment in exchange for not entering Crimea. With Kherson, Kharkiv, Luhansk and Donetsk oblasts full of NATO-quality equipment and fast track NATO membership, Ukraine might well agree to stop at the borders of Crimea.



The Chinese know fine well that there's nothing to gain from Taiwan and everything to lose. They're also much, much better at diplomacy than Russia ever will be.

China taking advantage of Russian instability to get their hands on large amounts of energy from Siberia? Conceivable.

There’s a Russian language general discussion forum on a gaming board I check occasionally. I sometimes web translate the Russian section, just out of interest…

There’s been comments about the possibility of China annexing part of Eastern Russia for some months. It’s a definite concern within Russia, and what would stop the Chinese doing this?
 

Cloud Strife

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There’s been comments about the possibility of China annexing part of Eastern Russia for some months. It’s a definite concern within Russia, and what would stop the Chinese doing this?

Well, there is one thing stopping China: Chinese diplomacy. They are much, much more likely to simply wait until Russia is on her knees after losing the war, and then they'll walk in with an offer that Russia can't refuse in terms of taking control of energy supplies via a very long term lease. The Chinese aren't stupid: they know that it's much cheaper to use diplomacy than to use guns.

If I were Russian, right now, I'd be much more afraid of what's going to happen if Russia loses this war. Kadryov probably won't survive, and I wouldn't be shocked if the Russian Federation starts to disintegrate without a strong military presence. I'm very much of the opinion that Russia needs to be broken into 4 or 5 new states, because this is the only way to stop them in future.
 

Annetts key

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If I were Russian, right now, I'd be much more afraid of what's going to happen if when Russia loses this war. Kadryov probably won't survive, and I wouldn't be shocked if the Russian Federation starts to disintegrate without a strong military presence. I'm very much of the opinion that Russia needs to be broken into 4 or 5 new states, because this is the only way to stop them in future.
Corrected that for you… :p
 

REVUpminster

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Regarding drones; at least one university and a further education college has unmanned boats about the size of a speed boat that can carry different scientific payloads. They're not allowed at sea (maritime law) without a lookout who must be on another nearby boat but in time of war that would be ignored. Possibly why Russia is accusing Britain of involvement in the attack on Sevastovol.
 

najaB

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Possibly why Russia is accusing Britain of involvement in the attack on Sevastovol.
Russia is accusing the UK of the attack on Sevastopol for the same reason that they claim that the forces they are fighting in the Donbass are mostly NATO troops in disguise - their pride doesn't let them admit that 'lowly' Ukraine is able to inflict such damage to the mighty Russian armed forces.
 

swt_passenger

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Russia is accusing the UK of the attack on Sevastopol for the same reason that they claim that the forces they are fighting in the Donbass are mostly NATO troops in disguise - their pride doesn't let them admit that 'lowly' Ukraine is able to inflict such damage to the mighty Russian armed forces.
Now reading in The Times online edition that our Ambassador has been “called in” to be shown the evidence that the RN are behind the attacks.
 

Class 33

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From Sky News

Russia fighting a 'holy war' against the 'antichrist', Putin ally says
Russian forces are fighting a "holy war" against the "antichrist", Putin ally Alexander Dugin has claimed.
In an interview on Russian state television, shared by the BBC's Francis Scarr, Mr Dugin, whose daughter Darya Dugina was assassinated in a car bomb near Moscow in August, said he agreed with the comments made by Chechen warlord Ramzan Kadyrov, who has called for Russia to carry out a de-Satanisation in Ukraine.
He said: "It's a holy battle against the satanic West!"
Mr Dugin went on to say: "Yes, it's an Orthodox battle, a final apocalyptic, eschatological battle of Orthodox Christian Russia, holy Russia, against the antichrist.
"That's the point of this special military operation."

It absolutely infuriates me some of the absolute nonsense allegations that sick mad evil Putin and his chronies are saying about "The West" and Britain. Also saying that Britain is threatening Moscow with nuclear weapons!

I'm still concerned that one day there's going to be a big yellow LIVE BREAKING headline on Sky News with something really alarming and terrifying like "Kremlin preparing to nuke Britain tonight to wipe the British Isles off the face of the earth" or "Kremlin preparing to bomb London tonight".

These extremely unnerving worrying times still drags on whilst Putin is still in power and some of the absolute nonsense he's saying about Britain. Note that article above mentions "Yes, it's an Orthodox battle, a final apoocalyptic, eschatological battle of Orthodox Christian Russia, holy Russia, against the antichrist. That's the point of this special military operation.".

Am absolutely sick of all this. This is just dragging on forever it seems. When will it ever end?
 
Last edited:

najaB

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I'm still concerned that one day there's going to be a big yellow LIVE BREAKING headline on Sky News with something really alarming and terrifying like "Kremlin preparing to nuke Britain tonight to wipe the British Isles off the face of the earth" or "Kremlin preparing to bomb London tonight".
Which, if it did happen, would be followed the next day with a "Russia announces that, in the spirit of peace, they aren't going to bomb London".
 

43096

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From Sky News



It absolutely infuriates me some of the absolute nonsense allegations that sick mad evil Putin and his chronies are saying about "The West" and Britain. Also saying that Britain is threatening Moscow with nuclear weapons!

I'm still concerned that one day there's going to be a big yellow LIVE BREAKING headline on Sky News with something really alarming and terrifying like "Kremlin preparing to nuke Britain tonight to wipe the British Isles off the face of the earth" or "Kremlin preparing to bomb London tonight".

These extremely unnerving worrying times still drags on whilst Putin is still in power and some of the absolute nonsense he's saying about Britain. Note that article above mentions "Yes, it's an Orthodox battle, a final apoocalyptic, eschatological battle of Orthodox Christian Russia, holy Russia, against the antichrist. That's the point of this special military operation.".

Am absolutely sick of all this. This is just dragging on forever it seems. When will it ever end?
We've given you the advice that you need to stop watching news channels/websites like Sky. Take control of it!
 

yorksrob

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Ah, so we've had whatever this war was for at the start - protecting Russian speakers wasn't it ? Then it was protecting Mother Russia from the "invaders". Now it's a "Holy War" against satan.

What next ? A war against ballet ?

Pathetic cretins.
 

Cloud Strife

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Which, if it did happen, would be followed the next day with a "Russia announces that, in the spirit of peace, they aren't going to bomb London".

And news that Putin has retired to his dacha at the 101st kilometre.

I'm still concerned that one day there's going to be a big yellow LIVE BREAKING headline on Sky News with something really alarming and terrifying like "Kremlin preparing to nuke Britain tonight to wipe the British Isles off the face of the earth" or "Kremlin preparing to bomb London tonight".

No Russian military leader is going to sacrifice their lives and their family for Putin's ego. Russia will survive executing Putin and withdrawing from Ukraine, but a nuclear attack will be the end of Russia.

Remember that this stuff is intended for a domestic audience. They know that the questions are mounting over exactly what Russia is doing there, and the loss of so many men is going to be harder and harder to cover up. The mobiks are being torn apart on the battlefield because they don't have the equipment or training, and when people don't hear from their relatives and/or discover that they were killed months ago on the battlefield, they're going to get very angry. The way to deal with this? Play to Russian superstition, which means proclaiming a holy war.

Bear in mind that Russia just backed down to Turkey a couple of days ago over the grain exports. As soon as Turkey made it clear that they would flag the vessels as Turkish, Russia backed down, because they know that the Turkish naval forces would tear the Black Sea Fleet to shreds.
 

DynamicSpirit

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Ah, so we've had whatever this war was for at the start - protecting Russian speakers wasn't it ? Then it was protecting Mother Russia from the "invaders". Now it's a "Holy War" against satan.

What next ? A war against ballet ?

Yeah, in terms of hyperbole, it's bit hard to step up from a war against Satan isn't it. That kinda takes the hyperbole to the limit!
 

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