Scotrail Class 385 Discussion

[InOban]

I notice that no delivery paths have yet been loaded for this week. Is this linked to the English school holidays?

 

[Stopper]

Why is it currently a disaster?

Dunblane/Glasgow trains either run slow or are held every morning for extended periods for late running North Clyde electrics. I’m not sure how often the North Clyde electrics are held as I don’t travel on them.

It’s not a dig by any means, I’m just curious as to how 12tph will work when 10tph (8tph electric) barely does. I hope that the 385s acceleration and top speed will help.

 

[Carntyne]

I think it's important to remember that the corridor will soon switch from what, 6 different traction types, all with varying characteristics (334, 365, 380, 385, 158 and 170) to two. (334 and 385). I know there's the odd HST and Class 800 that'll work through there sometimes too, but this will undoubtedly help improve things, along with the timetable changes that are coming in.

 

[Chrism20]

Dunblane/Glasgow trains either run slow or are held every morning for extended periods for late running North Clyde electrics. I’m not sure how often the North Clyde electrics are held as I don’t travel on them.

It’s not a dig by any means, I’m just curious as to how 12tph will work when 10tph (8tph electric) barely does. I hope that the 385s acceleration and top speed will help.

I would be very surprised if Newbridge Junction hasn't been looked at several times since the botched timetable introduction on Northern and Thameslink to ensure that the plans are doable.

It's a junction though and realistically some trains are going to have to stop there. All this has been discussed before and nothing new is being added to the discussion.

 

[InOban]

Scotrail have been quite public about the consequences of congestion in the Glasgow area on operations in the East, in particular at Newbridge.

It occurs to me that the acceleration of the E-G services may mean that they can be scheduled in front of the offending Bathgate trains.

 

[Typhoon_93]

I notice that no delivery paths have yet been loaded for this week. Is this linked to the English school holidays?

Kids in Aycliffe were off last week so don’t think it’s linked.

 

[SC318250]

Tues and Thu were showing last Sunday but Wednesday delivery was added later

 

[jopsuk]

I appreciate this is Infrastructure, not Rolling Stock, but I do wonder if somewhere at Transport Scotland there's at the very least a single page document with an artists impression of a flyover at Newbridge and a rough estimate of how much it would cost, backed by a larger document titled "feasibility study" or some such.

 

[gordonjahn]

I appreciate this is Infrastructure, not Rolling Stock, but I do wonder if somewhere at Transport Scotland there's at the very least a single page document with an artists impression of a flyover at Newbridge and a rough estimate of how much it would cost, backed by a larger document titled "feasibility study" or some such.

I've seen plans/renders for Greenhill grade separation (which seem to have been purged from the Internet) and that project remains in the NR Scotland strategic plan ( https://cdn.networkrail.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/Scotland-Route-Strategic-Plan.pdf ) whereas I've never seen Newbridge mentioned. I assume it's *not* (edit!) perceived to be an issue.

 

[mcmad]

Given the proximity to both the M8/M9 interchange and Edinburgh Airport, grade separating Newbridge may well not even have been realistically considered.

 

[gingertom]

Given the proximity to both the M8/M9 interchange and Edinburgh Airport, grade separating Newbridge may well not even have been realistically considered.

I'm sure it must have been talked about at some point. As you say the proximity to the airport means an elevated approach from the west could cause conflict and the presence of the M9 motorway prevents a dive under starting until east of the motorway. I'm wondering if there's sufficient room to quadruple track from Newbridge through Ratho Station then do the grade separated dive under/climb over between there and the city bypass?
Similarly the Almond/Dalmeny chord or whatever you want to call it could have similar issues with the airport at the north-eastern end of the runway. Drifting a bit OT towards infrastructure though.

 

[kilonewton]

Similarly the Almond/Dalmeny chord or whatever you want to call it could have similar issues with the airport at the north-eastern end of the runway. Drifting a bit OT towards infrastructure though.

Fully expect this and the previous posts to be moved to somewhere more appropriate.
The junction was (is) planned to be north of the River Almond, so no issue with the current runway. The future runway is planned to the North of the river also, but the actual flyover for the chord was (is) to be north of Burnshot Road.

 

[Altnabreac]

I appreciate this is Infrastructure, not Rolling Stock, but I do wonder if somewhere at Transport Scotland there's at the very least a single page document with an artists impression of a flyover at Newbridge and a rough estimate of how much it would cost, backed by a larger document titled "feasibility study" or some such.

I’m sure outline feasibility has been looked at but it was quickly ruled out in favour of Almond Chord.

Apart from the practical difficulties a flyover at Newbridge wouldn’t solve the balancing of services between north and south lines at Haymarket and also wouldn’t reduce conflicting flat movements at Haymarket East Junction in the way the Almond Chord does.

Post Almond Chord there is only a requirement for 2tph to come from the Linlithgow direction through Newbridge so the conflicts are greatly reduced.

 

[Typhoon_93]

Tues and Thu were showing last Sunday but Wednesday delivery was added later

Paths gone in for Wed/Thu and Fri

 

[ninjazx6r]

Given the problems bring the 385 into service what was the argument against just building more 380's. They seem to be reliable units.

 

[gsnedders]

Given the problems bring the 385 into service what was the argument against just building more 380's. They seem to be reliable units.

Siemens weren't offering them.

 

[CJSwan]

Given the problems bring the 385 into service what was the argument against just building more 380's. They seem to be reliable units.

Hasn’t this been discussed before in great length?

 

[jopsuk]

Given the problems bring the 385 into service what was the argument against just building more 380's. They seem to be reliable units.

Because that's not how this works. Scotrail will have invited interested parties (ie rolling stock manufacturers) to propose bids against a specification for the fleet. They then assess the bids and choose the one that best meets, on paper, the requirements.

At that stage they will have been blind to the potential for the problems that have arisen. Lack of prototype sets means the windscreen issues were unforseen. Control system issues are the sort of thing that will not be predicted.

If Siemens had offered Class 380s at a price Scotrail considered good value and with a delivery timeframe that met the requirements then Scotrail may well have gone for that. But they believed that Hitachi were offering a better deal (did Siemens even bid?).

 

[alangla]

Given the problems bring the 385 into service what was the argument against just building more 380's. They seem to be reliable units.

They weren’t when they were new. When A2B opened in 2010, it was 1 3 car train per hour instead of 4x largely 6 car as at present. The reason was that Siemens late delivery of the 380s meant the 334s were still tied up in Ayrshire & weren’t able to move across in any sort of numbers.

 

[Chuggington21]

Don't get mixed up the scotrail and transport Scotland. Scotrail didn't have any real say onnwhat happened with regards units

 

[gsnedders]

Don't get mixed up the scotrail and transport Scotland. Scotrail didn't have any real say onnwhat happened with regards units

It was a franchisee matter to order the new EMUs for the EGIP, they just had to meet certain requirements from the franchise agreement, set in the ITT by TS, entering service by the specified date.

 

[Wst71Pa2]

Because that's not how this works. Scotrail will have invited interested parties (ie rolling stock manufacturers) to propose bids against a specification for the fleet. They then assess the bids and choose the one that best meets, on paper, the requirements.

At that stage they will have been blind to the potential for the problems that have arisen. Lack of prototype sets means the windscreen issues were unforseen. Control system issues are the sort of thing that will not be predicted.

If Siemens had offered Class 380s at a price Scotrail considered good value and with a delivery timeframe that met the requirements then Scotrail may well have gone for that. But they believed that Hitachi were offering a better deal (did Siemens even bid?).

IIRC more 380's was the original plan but delivery date couldn't be met, so Hitachi offered their clone of it

 

[Typhoon_93]

Light engine is on its way from Tyne so looks like tonight’s delivery is happening.

 

[InOban]

Are there still only two 385 diagrams on the E-G? I would have expected that they would be introducing more by now, or are they holding the rest back for the launch of SDA services in 5 weeks?

 

[Stopper]

Aren’t the 385s only going on the Cumbernaulds plus the Glasgow-Stirling/Alloa services? The Edinburgh-Dunblane services are meant to be 365s in December I believe.

On another point, will 6-car 385s or even a 4-car 385 even fit in Stirling bays 7&8? I suspect Platform 10 will be back into more regular use.

 

[hexagon789]

Aren’t the 385s only going on the Cumbernaulds plus the Glasgow-Stirling/Alloa services? The Edinburgh-Dunblane services are meant to be 365s in December I believe.

On another point, will 6-car 385s or even a 4-car 385 even fit in Stirling bays 7&8? I suspect Platform 10 will be back into more regular use.

Certainly 7 & 8 can fit a double 158, so a four-car 385 should be fine, I'm not sure about a six-car. 9 & 10 are rather sporadically used so I would think you are probably right that they may see more intensive use. Thank goodness severe platform rationalisation hasn't affected Stirling so they can still do this if necessary.

 

[Chrism20]

Aren’t the 385s only going on the Cumbernaulds plus the Glasgow-Stirling/Alloa services? The Edinburgh-Dunblane services are meant to be 365s in December I believe.

Definitely 365s on the Edinburghs.

• Class 385 electric trains on all Edinburgh-Glasgow via Falkirk High services.
• Class 385 electric trains introduced on Glasgow Queen Street to Alloa and Dunblane services.
• Class 365 electric trains on Edinburgh to Dunblane services.

https://www.scotrail.co.uk/about-sc...ches-another-milestone-timetable-improvements

 

[Typhoon_93]

67006+385109 departed Aycliffe at 21:57 heading to EC as 5X09.

 

[Typhoon_93]

385112 noted outside at Aycliffe this morning with the delivery panel fitted so could be tonight’s delivery.

 

[youngac]

Thanks for the info. Glad to see they're being delivered at a much faster rate now.