Scotrail Class 385 Discussion

[gsnedders]

Scotrail want things like 5 mins off an eg journey and it is little benefit. Who noticed 5 mins? Old coaches with locks would do for heaven sake.

To be pedantic, ScotRail isn't the one who wanted this: the Scottish Government did, and it was a requirement of the Invitation to Tender for the ScotRail franchise that they acquire stock capable of that performance target.

 

[Mingulay]

Deeply disappointing if this is yet another delay and setback. They do seem fated in this project. Hard not to have some sympathy with the management team. Public patience will be non existent given the expectations set by scotrail and government. Hope there is a quick fix here. Hitachi really need to get a grip on this and demonstrate they are competent .

Are all the diesels that we’re going off lease now gone. So no imminent crisis of no rolling stock ?

 

[gingertom]

Your last two sentences appear to be contradictory - are they safe or not?

if your car fails the MOT you can't drive it except to take it (carefully) to the garage for repairs.

 

[boabt]

Well they are in trouble then. Even with these new train there will continue to delays and cancellations. Not to mention not being able to work on train cause of short forming. Time is money supposedly.
You really saying 5 mins off a 50 min journey matters?? Seriously?
The railways being run from the train spotter perspective and not customers.

Between the two major cities in the country? Yes. Obviously.

 

[Sickandtired]

Between the two major cities in the country? Yes. Obviously.

Sorry but that is just nonsense.justify that.
Why should Edinburgh or glasgow travellers get priority over others
?

 

[CM]

Sorry but that is just nonsense.justify that.
Why should Edinburgh or glasgow travellers get priority over others
?

Jesus wept, calm down. When the 385s are fully settled and all in service you'll have 8 car trains on the Edinburgh to Glasgow route instead of the previous 6 cars, you'll have trains that accelerate faster than the diesel units and thus journey times will be reduced! Why do you have a problem with that? Or are you just trolling the forum trying to cause an argument?

 

[Sickandtired]

Jesus wept, calm down. When the 385s are fully settled and all in service you'll have 8 car trains on the Edinburgh to Glasgow route instead of the previous 6 cars, you'll have trains that accelerate faster than the diesel units and thus journey times will be reduced! Why do you have a problem with that? Or are you just trolling the forum trying to cause an argument?

That's no use tho. U will still have the challenge of getting to Edinburgh park. That may be less of an issue once the new trains are functioning but until then ep passengers are stuffed.

 

[CM]

No use to YOU no, but it WILL be of use to the thousands of others who use the service. The trains aren't here to suit you personally, they have to cater for everybodys needs and sometimes that may mean you can't always get exactly what you want when you want it.

 

[Chuggington21]

The 385 was a government thing and designed by the government.

 

[Sickandtired]

No use to YOU no, but it WILL be of use to the thousands of others who use the service. The trains aren't here to suit you personally, they have to cater for everybodys needs and sometimes that may mean you can't always get exactly what you want when you want it.

Exactly my point. They should not be here just to batter for those travelling between queen st and haymarket. Except they are really the way they are set up. So I ask again. Why are glasgow qs and Edinburgh haymarket /waverly getting preference with the 5 mins off nonsense.

 

[SC43090]

As someone who just wants a timely train service between falkirk and Edinburgh park (along with occasional football related trip to glasgow) with the chance to get a seat on maybe 80% of journeys I have to say I reckon scotrail priorities are wrong from passenger perspective. Why 385? Could they not have chosen a older proven design and got some of these built?? Scotrail want things like 5 mins off an eg journey and it is little benefit. Who noticed 5 mins? Old coaches with locks would do for heaven sake.

Old coaches with door locks are coming sssssooooooooonnnnnn..... think they are called HSTs........

 

[Chuggington21]

Exactly my point. They should not be here just to batter for those travelling between queen st and haymarket. Except they are really the way they are set up. So I ask again. Why are glasgow qs and Edinburgh haymarket /waverly getting preference with the 5 mins off nonsense.

But they aren't though. The 385s will go on dunblane and Edinbugh to Glasgow Central via shots and a few others everyone of them will benefit from faster travel

 

[Darandio]

So I ask again. Why are glasgow qs and Edinburgh haymarket /waverly getting preference with the 5 mins off nonsense.

You keep asking and keep getting told. Ask your government.

 

[CM]

Exactly my point. They should not be here just to batter for those travelling between queen st and haymarket. Except they are really the way they are set up. So I ask again. Why are glasgow qs and Edinburgh haymarket /waverly getting preference with the 5 mins off nonsense.

The 5 minutes off nonsense? So you would rather have longer train journeys? What EXACTLY do you want from the train service because from what I'm reading, your just griping and arguing with everything that everyone says and taking none of it on board.

 

[Failed Unit]

I know this is wandering off topic a bit. But would other EMUs have achieved the 5 minute saving? The turbos are not exactly fast. The 365s to me feel like they could have done if (Which of course were not available at the time the franchise was let)

Can’t be too hard on Scotrail. They procured trains from a reputable supplier. They wouldnt expect these problems. The latest Siemens (700) and Bombardier (345) are hardly a good advert for excellent reliability.

 

[bb21]

Please be advised that this is a thread about the rolling stock, its performance and problems with the rolling stock project, not service patterns or any other topic not related to the rolling stock itself, as it detracts from the core subject and causes confusion.

I won't delete anything so far as the discussion has been reasonably meaningful, however anyone wishing to continue with any complaint about anything other than the rolling stock itself will need to start a relevant thread in an appropriate area of the forum. Further off-topic posts will be deleted. Thank you.

 

[Journeyman]

Can’t be too hard on Scotrail. They procured trains from a reputable supplier. They wouldnt expect these problems. The latest Siemens (700) and Bombardier (345) are hardly a good advert for excellent reliability.

Absolutely agree. They had to buy new 100mph EMUs, and essentially the choices were Aventra, Desiro, Civity or AT200. All are strong contenders, all have possible downsides. I'm personally surprised they've been so problematic, given that the 395s worked very well, but there you go - the decision has been made. I suspect Hitachi's reputation has been seriously damaged by this.

 

[47271]

Absolutely agree. They had to buy new 100mph EMUs, and essentially the choices were Aventra, Desiro, Civity or AT200. All are strong contenders, all have possible downsides. I'm personally surprised they've been so problematic, given that the 395s worked very well, but there you go - the decision has been made. I suspect Hitachi's reputation has been seriously damaged by this.

The 395s are ten years old and were built in Japan. A new plant far from home and too many UK orders on all at once at Hitachi is one of the underlying problems I fear.

I've never travelled on a 385, they're not out that often as we know, but I've been on plenty of GWR IETs and already they feel less solid at speed than a 395.

 

[Bikeman78]

The delays wouldn't be occurring if the trains actually worked properly, neither would the short forms. If the 385 introduction has gone as planned then there'd be a lot more capacity and a more reliable service than at present.

Cutting 5 minutes off of the journey time gives an extra 5 minutes turnaround time at each end, so should make the service more reliable. The benefits here aren't nessecarilly the time saving, but are the reliability improvements that come with it.

Looking at RTT, most of the schedules for December are still over 50 minutes. There's a few westbound peak trains scheduled for 45-48 minutes but that's it. The problem for eastbound trains is that they catch up with other trains and often arrive late at Haymarket.

 

[Domh245]

The 395s are ten years old and were built in Japan. A new plant far from home and too many UK orders on all at once at Hitachi is one of the underlying problems I fear.

I've never travelled on a 385, they're not out that often as we know, but I've been on plenty of GWR IETs and already they feel less solid at speed than a 395.

However, the issues don't seem to be with the manufacturing (at least, not the show-stopping ones) - so the fact that it's being put together in Newton Aycliffe shouldn't be having any effect.

 

[47271]

However, the issues don't seem to be with the manufacturing (at least, not the show-stopping ones) - so the fact that it's being put together in Newton Aycliffe shouldn't be having any effect.

I agree, but surely noone would argue that Hitachi haven't overstretched themselves in a few different ways since the 395s were built.

 

[gsnedders]

I agree, but surely noone would argue that Hitachi haven't overstretched themselves in a few different ways since the 395s were built.

How much of the (design, etc.) work is done in Japan? How busy is the Japanese side of the train building part of the company?

 

[scotraildriver]

This must be deeply concerning for drivers. The 385 to me is just awful, poor visibility for drivers, the lack of opening cab windows, the terrible gangway, sub standard first class and spartan standard. One crisis to another and just a poor product from start to finish.

Alot of the visibilty thing was over hyped. There are no issues driving the thing and I've not heard a driver yet who doesn't like them. They are very nice trains to drive.
the seats are a downside though.

 

[Failed Unit]

Alot of the visibilty thing was over hyped. There are no issues driving the thing and I've not heard a driver yet who doesn't like them. They are very nice trains to drive.
the seats are a downside though.

In the cab or on the train?

I must admit I am surprised I have not seen much criticism of the seats in the train compared to the class 700. I assumed Scotrail had gone for a higher specification. But that said the journeys are short max 50 minutes so maybe not long enough to irritate passengers. (Or they are harder up as the are used to the “Richmond” seats on the 158s)

 

[Goldfish62]

In the cab or on the train?

I must admit I am surprised I have not seen much criticism of the seats in the train compared to the class 700. I assumed Scotrail had gone for a higher specification. But that said the journeys are short max 50 minutes so maybe not long enough to irritate passengers. (Or they are harder up as the are used to the “Richmond” seats on the 158s)

The ironing boards in the 700s irritate me after about 10 min. ScotRail stated that the ones in the 385s have extra padding, so maybe that's helping.

 

[Chuggington21]

Alot of the visibilty thing was over hyped. There are no issues driving the thing and I've not heard a driver yet who doesn't like them. They are very nice trains to drive.
the seats are a downside though.

I disagree with the visibility comment, bit that's my opinion. Window aside is a good train to drive

 

[HankyuDentetsu]

How much of the (design, etc.) work is done in Japan? How busy is the Japanese side of the train building part of the company?

Good question - I presume that a significant proportion of the design work is carried out in Japan? What I would really like to know is who is responsible for the software utilised? Has Hitachi developed it in-house, or is the archictecting/development outsourced to a 3rd party? This seems to be where a lot of the issues are coming from, aside from the windscreen nonsense... would be very interesting to know more.

 

[dmkc]

Guess we're now in for a period of short forming galore

 

[ainsworth74]

Any more news? Is the fleet still grounded (at least in passenger service)?

 

[Highlandspring]

Any more news? Is the fleet still grounded (at least in passenger service)?

Bit in bold is still the case, yes.