Scotrail HSTs - 4-5 years in

[yorkie]

If anyone would like to make suggestions or indeed anything of a speculative nature, such as suggesting replacing HSTs with 158s, or anything else, please use the Speculative Discussion section.

Thanks

 

[Speed43125]

Isn’t the immediate worry that there’s a call to stop driving them four years after Carmont?

See post #180 on this thread.

 

[hexagon789]

Have heard from someone within ScotRail that sets HA02, 08, 12 and 23 will not be re-entering traffic and will be returned to the ROSCO. HA12 has been stored at Slateford for a year, the others are still at Doncaster. Yes, it could be argued this is a 'rumour' in a fashion but it does come from a fairly credible source and I thought, given recent developments with GWR and now XC it might be of interest to members.

If I do hear anymore, I'll try to provide an update.

 

[CJSwan]

Have heard from someone within ScotRail that sets HA02, 08, 12 and 23 will not be re-entering traffic and will be returned to the ROSCO. HA12 has been stored at Slateford for a year, the others are still at Doncaster. Yes, it could be argued this is a 'rumour' in a fashion but it does come from a fairly credible source and I thought, given recent developments with GWR and now XC it might be of interest to members.

If I do hear anymore, I'll try to provide an update.

There must 12(ish) E coaches that have been sitting at Slateford for a similar time, with no sign of them being added into any 4 coach sets. So who knows what condition they’ll be in…

 

[hexagon789]

There must 12(ish) E coaches that have been sitting at Slateford for a similar time, with no sign of them being added into any 4 coach sets. So who knows what condition they’ll be in…

The most recent update I had re the extra TSLs (Coach Es), from back in November, was that the fifteen existing diagrams were all to be made up as 2+5 sets in May. I strongly suspect that won't be happening now.

(Presently five sets are 2+5; there are then a further ten spare TSLs at Slateford and two at Inverness.)

 

[jagardner1984]

I can see the Dalton article shaping up now about refurbished carriages going to the scrap before seating a single passenger …

 

[ld0595]

What a far cry from what we were offered in 2014...

 

[PG]

sets HA02, 08, 12 and 23 will not be re-entering traffic and will be returned to the ROSCO. HA12 has been stored at Slateford for a year, the others are still at Doncaster.

Forgive my not being able to recall - were the 3 at Doncaster there for rectification of faults or is there some other reason why they aren't in Scotland? - if indeed they ever made it that far in the first place.

 

[John Bishop]

Forgive my not being able to recall - were the 3 at Doncaster there for rectification of faults or is there some other reason why they aren't in Scotland? - if indeed they ever made it that far in the first place.

Yes, all sets were delivered to Scotland but a few sets had to go back for remedial repairs mainly concerning the doors if I remember correctly. The sets suffered really badly from corrosion, and still do to an extent, leaky roofs etc. I’m guessing these sets at Doncaster are proving too costly/ difficult to repair hence the decision to not return. To be fair, it’s not like we’re short of sets in Scotland, shortage of space to store them all- yes.

Multiple HST set failures this week resulting in across network short forms and cancellations.

 

[jagardner1984]

Presumably not receiving X % of what you are leasing, many years after you have supposed to have received final delivery, at least gives some leverage when it comes to renegotiating the ongoing deal.

I suppose when cuts are in the air, and plenty alternative projects crying out for money, you get into what level of spares is useful for maintaining service level and which ones are so knackered they actually hinder you doing that. Presumably they’ve decided these sets fall into the latter category.

 

[route101]

How many 5 car HST sets are in traffic?

 

[Bikeman78]

Yes, all sets were delivered to Scotland but a few sets had to go back for remedial repairs mainly concerning the doors if I remember correctly. The sets suffered really badly from corrosion, and still do to an extent, leaky roofs etc. I’m guessing these sets at Doncaster are proving too costly/ difficult to repair hence the decision to not return. To be fair, it’s not like we’re short of sets in Scotland, shortage of space to store them all- yes.

Multiple HST set failures this week resulting in across network short forms and cancellations.

It's strange that the GWR fleet isn't anywhere near as bad. I'm on a gen group for them, which includes controllers and several people who travel on them a lot. Very few failures reported.

 

[CJSwan]

How many 5 car HST sets are in traffic?

Just 5… The first 5 car entered service in September 2021!

 

[fgwrich]

It's strange that the GWR fleet isn't anywhere near as bad. I'm on a gen group for them, which includes controllers and several people who travel on them a lot. Very few failures reported.

Not really, you have to remember that it’s two fold: ScotRail (and Haymarket depot for that matter) will never have operated HSTs before, so there will be a lot of learning to get their heads around - particularly for Haymarket going from a mostly DMU depot to a mixture of DMU and HST. Also, Angel Trains chose to send the GEC motored Power Cars to ScotRail. These have, somewhat notoriously, been less reliable than their Brush motored brothers which remain on GWR. The fact that the GEC motored power cars were solely concentrated on Landore who took their time in making them somewhat reliable also unfortunately speaks volumes. GWR however will be far more used to HSTs than ScotRail will be and SPM, Laira and Long Rock are depots very familiar with the class. So their reliability should very much be higher than Scotland.

 

[Christmas]

I was in standard class on Saturday and noticed that a good proportion of seats were looking tatty, with headrests loose and stands of material sticking out on many seats.

 

[BRX]

I've been on two HSTs in the past week and on both of them, there was a carriage where the heating didn't seem to be working. Is this amongst the day-to-day system problems that were described in a previous post as why they are a hassle to run? I'm interested if there's something about the mk3 heating system that's prone to fail or difficult to fix.

 

[barrowjack]

Have been in Edinburgh all week and each day at least 3 of the HST diagrams from there were being covered by units or cancelled, and that was before 127 and 035 sat down and refused to go to Inverness on Wednesday morning resulting in another unit picking up the diagram at Perth

 

[aem7ac]

Any indication that these will be out of traffic or pulled altogether within the next few months? Trying to photograph these on holiday in June.

 

[ld0595]

Any indication that these will be out of traffic or pulled altogether within the next few months? Trying to photograph these on holiday in June.

No indication whatsoever at the moment that they'll be withdrawn. As it stands you should be fine in June

 

[aem7ac]

No indication whatsoever at the moment that they'll be withdrawn. As it stands you should be fine in June

Thank you.

 

[John Bishop]

Have been in Edinburgh all week and each day at least 3 of the HST diagrams from there were being covered by units or cancelled, and that was before 127 and 035 sat down and refused to go to Inverness on Wednesday morning resulting in another unit picking up the diagram at Perth

Yeah this weeks been a nightmare with the fleet! Multiple set failures resulting in cancellations and short forms.

 

[JohnMcL7]

There's an ECS move to Inverness tomorrow being operated by ROG, I assume this is an HST move? It's unusual to see ROG moves for up here.

 

[Abc100]

Seemed to be a full HST service as planned between Edinburgh and Aberdeen today - perhaps this will be a better week for reliability. I note the bad press scotrail have been getting for running a short overcrowded DMU to Aberdeen after the rugby on Sunday night.

 

[hexagon789]

Seemed to be a full HST service as planned between Edinburgh and Aberdeen today - perhaps this will be a better week for reliability. I note the bad press scotrail have been getting for running a short overcrowded DMU to Aberdeen after the rugby on Sunday night.

13/15 sets out. A 14th set, HA16 with 43036 and 138, was 'failed' at Inverness before working any turns.

 

[airantraigh]

I was on one of the sets between Edinburgh to Leuchars at the weekend, and there was a fault with the power being 'juddery' on occasion and in the middle car, the overhead light kept flashing off, especially at low speeds. (If the cloud of drunk youngsters accompanied by the police weren't enough.) I would be so so surprised if the current fleet could last until the end of the decade if my experience and the tales from so many others were honest.

 

[Wyrleybart]

Yes, all sets were delivered to Scotland but a few sets had to go back for remedial repairs mainly concerning the doors if I remember correctly. The sets suffered really badly from corrosion, and still do to an extent, leaky roofs etc. I’m guessing these sets at Doncaster are proving too costly/ difficult to repair hence the decision to not return. To be fair, it’s not like we’re short of sets in Scotland, shortage of space to store them all- yes.

Multiple HST set failures this week resulting in across network short forms and cancellations.

Not been to Scotland since Sprinterisation of the WHL to be honest but see and hear lots, and the one that concerned me was last summer. Scotrail were imploring passengers not to use the 10xx Inverness Edinburgh service because it was diagrammed a DMU. Well hello ? I would have thought that train was the primary service out of the Highland capital and as such would be justly formed of a 2+5 HST, especially as there were probably unused trailers sat around the depot just yards away.

Scotland has suffered as much as other touristy parts of the network with an imbalance of ridership, so I would have thought Scotrail would be trying to use every wheel it owned in peak summer, after all, adding a TSO to the set gives loads of extra seats for relatively little outgoing.

 

[hexagon789]

Not been to Scotland since Sprinterisation of the WHL to be honest but see and hear lots, and the one that concerned me was last summer. Scotrail were imploring passengers not to use the 10xx Inverness Edinburgh service because it was diagrammed a DMU. Well hello ? I would have thought that train was the primary service out of the Highland capital and as such would be justly formed of a 2+5 HST, especially as there were probably unused trailers sat around the depot just yards away.

It can't be an HST because of the diagram it's part of. It has been rediagrammed as 170+158 since December.

 

[jagardner1984]

Scotrail’s attitude (however pragmatic) of “well come if you want, we’d prefer you didn’t, but there probably won’t be a seat, there might not even be a train” is very telling.

I don’t think it is coincidence pre Covid passenger levels have been slower to restore here than in other parts of the UK. For many, sitting in traffic jams for hours each day is still the more cost effective and reliable option. Investment is urgently needed.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Not been to Scotland since Sprinterisation of the WHL to be honest but see and hear lots, and the one that concerned me was last summer. Scotrail were imploring passengers not to use the 10xx Inverness Edinburgh service because it was diagrammed a DMU. Well hello ? I would have thought that train was the primary service out of the Highland capital and as such would be justly formed of a 2+5 HST, especially as there were probably unused trailers sat around the depot just yards away.

That’s why it’s now a 5 car DMU formation as this gives more standard seats than on a 5 car HST.

 

[92002]

That’s why it’s now a 5 car DMU formation as this gives more standard seats than on a 5 car HST.

Perhaps the solution is not only use a 5 car HST but to provide another around the time on a Saturday timetable.perhaps 30 minutes before or after the current train. There are single line sections to take into account.

An easy solution would be to run a longer train, but stations would need extended for a one day problem.

This has always been a popular time on Summer Saturday. Even before 170s were introduced many years ago..

There are plenty of HSTs not in use to provide the train.