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Scotrail HSTs - 4-5 years in

BRX

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This discussion comes round quite frequently. It appears the answer in the end boils down to it being "too much bother". So the potential bike space rattles around unused. Another thing for the list of potential benefits of the HSTs that are being wasted.
 
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gabrielhj07

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This discussion comes round quite frequently. It appears the answer in the end boils down to it being "too much bother". So the potential bike space rattles around unused. Another thing for the list of potential benefits of the HSTs that are being wasted.
It did seem a shame.
 

Speed43125

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Never been used on ScotRail. It was proposed for purely end-to-end journeys, but never happened.
Did it actually never happen?

My father reports having wondered into the van area once at Queen Street before getting chastised out, I'd presume there must have been some reason for the van area doors to have been open?
 

John Bishop

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Did it actually never happen?

My father reports having wondered into the van area once at Queen Street before getting chastised out, I'd presume there must have been some reason for the van area doors to have been open?
Probably left open by a fitter, happens quite regularly. They have never been used by Scotrail.

This discussion comes round quite frequently. It appears the answer in the end boils down to it being "too much bother". So the potential bike space rattles around unused. Another thing for the list of potential benefits of the HSTs that are being wasted.
Yeah a very common occurrence for bikes to be turned away, especially on the HML during the busier months, even with the enhanced space onboard now. Bit of a wasted opportunity having to turn away business.
 

FlybeDash8Q400

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7 five-car
14 four-car

So exactly 1/3rd of the operational fleet is now five-car
And there’s still another lot at Slateford to come, looks another 5 from what I saw earlier.

I thought there were 25 sets though? With the 26th written off after Carmont. Or am I missing something and have been miles away for too long!
 

hexagon789

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And there’s still another lot at Slateford to come, looks another 5 from what I saw earlier.

I thought there were 25 sets though? With the 26th written off after Carmont. Or am I missing something and have been miles away for too long!
Sorry, should have read 22 'operational' sets.

There are 3 sets at Doncaster, so not available for traffic.
 

FlybeDash8Q400

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Sorry, should have read 22 'operational' sets.

There are 3 sets at Doncaster, so not available for traffic.
That makes sense. For clarification are those 3 sets previously delivered ones that have gone for maintenance, or rather undelivered examples?
 

bluesfromagun

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The usual - an High-Speed Brake fault I understand. Traditionally not a problem up to 100/110mph but I understand ScotRail policy is to cancel the service, possibly because drivers are so used to full EP braking and even with the High-Speed Brake functioning, HST braking is much less responsive by comparison.
I've never heard the term 'high-speed' brake before, and I think what you must be talking about is running with one E70 isolated (must be rear one), which from memory restricts max speed to 100mph, which would be fine other than the brake would respond a little more slowly.
I've never heard of one of our sets running with an E70 isolated, the brake issues with our sets are generally more to do with sets struggling to build air, or bogie brakes sticking. A lot of the time, emptying / recharging distributors would probably overcome the issue but the time in drivers diagrams (12mins to mobilise an HST) is too short to start mucking around with distributors without getting very late departures, so they tend to get cancelled or do set swaps.
 

Railperf

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I've never heard the term 'high-speed' brake before, and I think what you must be talking about is running with one E70 isolated (must be rear one), which from memory restricts max speed to 100mph, which would be fine other than the brake would respond a little more slowly.
I've never heard of one of our sets running with an E70 isolated, the brake issues with our sets are generally more to do with sets struggling to build air, or bogie brakes sticking. A lot of the time, emptying / recharging distributors would probably overcome the issue but the time in drivers diagrams (12mins to mobilise an HST) is too short to start mucking around with distributors without getting very late departures, so they tend to get cancelled or do set swaps.
So here is a question. So we take it that in 125mph service, the (GWR, LNER, EMR maintenance teams would have tried to anticipate these kind of failures by having a maintenance regime that would service/ repair/ replace parts before they became faulty to avoid services being cancelled? But because they are now on secondary services running at 80 to 90 mph max speed with limited 100 mph running, the maintenance regime is run it until it fails?
 

FlybeDash8Q400

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So here is a question. So we take it that in 125mph service, the (GWR, LNER, EMR maintenance teams would have tried to anticipate these kind of failures by having a maintenance regime that would service/ repair/ replace parts before they became faulty to avoid services being cancelled? But because they are now on secondary services running at 80 to 90 mph max speed with limited 100 mph running, the maintenance regime is run it until it fails?
I think that’s a fair way to put it. I remember LNER running with one power car switched off on a London to Aberdeen service. It wasn’t ideal, but it still ran. I think if ScotRail ended up in that situation then the service would just be cancelled.
 

The Puddock

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I think that’s a fair way to put it. I remember LNER running with one power car switched off on a London to Aberdeen service. It wasn’t ideal, but it still ran. I think if ScotRail ended up in that situation then the service would just be cancelled.
ScotRail runs HSTs on one powercar frequently.
 

Falcon1200

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I remember LNER running with one power car switched off on a London to Aberdeen service. It wasn’t ideal, but it still ran. I think if ScotRail ended up in that situation then the service would just be cancelled.

The most likely thing in that situation would have been a power car change at Edinburgh; Running on 1 power car (PC) from Kings Cross to Aberdeen, and then coming back, would have serious implications for time keeping, and possibly fuel capacity. IIRC an HST on 1 PC leaving Aberdeen would struggle severely on the climb out of that city, and would also have to run non-stop through Inverkeithing.
 

FlybeDash8Q400

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The most likely thing in that situation would have been a power car change at Edinburgh; Running on 1 power car (PC) from Kings Cross to Aberdeen, and then coming back, would have serious implications for time keeping, and possibly fuel capacity. IIRC an HST on 1 PC leaving Aberdeen would struggle severely on the climb out of that city, and would also have to run non-stop through Inverkeithing.
In this case it ran the whole route on 1 power car. The only ones in Craigentinny were on maintenance so as you say it suffered horrendously on time and had to skip Inverkeithing and possibly even Kirkcaldy. I’m sure it was a Sunday it happened as the diagram only involved the set doing 1W11 from London to Aberdeen.
 

Morayshire

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In this case it ran the whole route on 1 power car. The only ones in Craigentinny were on maintenance so as you say it suffered horrendously on time and had to skip Inverkeithing and possibly even Kirkcaldy. I’m sure it was a Sunday it happened as the diagram only involved the set doing 1W11 from London to Aberdeen.
Also happened at least once for the Mon to Fri 1818 Aberdeen to Leeds in 2014 to 2016 (no idea which year). Skipped all stops between Aberdeen and Dundee as well.
 

Railperf

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Yes. Have a look in the log (that is if, as a driver, you have access) and you’ll see.
Back in September 2019 I was waiting for a 2+4 HST to Edinburgh and one power car had failed. It was taken out of service and replaced with a pair of 158's. I was told at the time that was ScotRail policy not to run on 1 power car - which shocked me, as other operators would try to run a 125mph service with one PC. Maybe the glut of available or spare DMU's made it easier for SR whereas in the past on Intercity use, there was usually no replacement traction - so run it or cancel it.
 

The Puddock

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Back in September 2019 I was waiting for a 2+4 HST to Edinburgh and one power car had failed. It was taken out of service and replaced with a pair of 158's. I was told at the time that was ScotRail policy not to run on 1 power car - which shocked me, as other operators would try to run a 125mph service with one PC.
I don't know who told you that but there is no such policy; they can and do run in service with one power car when necessary. There is a defined process to follow for Control, maintenance staff and drivers but it is there to be used.
 

Falcon1200

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In this case it ran the whole route on 1 power car. The only ones in Craigentinny were on maintenance so as you say it suffered horrendously on time

Also happened at least once for the Mon to Fri 1818 Aberdeen to Leeds in 2014 to 2016 (no idea which year). Skipped all stops between Aberdeen and Dundee as well.

Thanks for the updates!
 

fgwrich

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43031 + 177 worked a Haymarket to Slateford to Haymarket trip yesterday to retrieve another 3 Mk3s from storage so expect more sets to be extended over the coming weeks. Just 3 left in Slateford now.

42078 / 42077 / 42054 are the quoted vehicles.
 
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