Scotrail HSTs - 4-5 years in

[CJSwan]

Does anybody know what set had issues between Dundee and Aberdeen yesterday that caused quite a few considerable delays and some cancellations?

 

[_toommm_]

Does anybody know what set had issues between Dundee and Aberdeen yesterday that caused quite a few considerable delays and some cancellations?

A quick search on RTT showed this, operated by 43003, 43135, and set HA09:

Realtime Trains | 1A81 1130 Edinburgh to Stonehaven | 14/03/2025

Real-time train running information for 1A81 1130 departure from Edinburgh to Stonehaven on 14/03/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[hexagon789]

Does anybody know what set had issues between Dundee and Aberdeen yesterday that caused quite a few considerable delays and some cancellations?

HA09 with Power cars 003 and 135.

Loss of main res I believe.

A similar fault occurred with another set last week.

Edit: beg pardon, was the week before that with HA26.

 

[scotraildriver]

HA09 with Power cars 003 and 135.

Loss of main res I believe.

A similar fault occurred with another set last week.

Edit: beg pardon, was the week before that with HA26.

There has been a spate of issues with compressors tripping out over the last few weeks. This then puts additional pressure on the other one. That was the issue with HA26 last week, 1 compressor tripped out and the other thought "no way I'm doing all the work".

 

[hexagon789]

There has been a spate of issues with compressors tripping out over the last few weeks. This then puts additional pressure on the other one. That was the issue with HA26 last week, 1 compressor tripped out and the other thought "no way I'm doing all the work".

Thank you for the explanation, just seems to be one thing after another unfortunately.

 

[moffatcalum]

I would like to express how nice my first experience in first class aboard the early morning EDB - ABD train was yesterday.
Samples both standard and first class - I was taken aback as to how much better quality (in almost every way) that the experience of first class was over standard. Not even wanting to criticise standard class, just the first class offering was awesome.
Set me up for an excellent day & those posh, plush armchair seats really seemed to even be theraputic to my injured spine. As I mentioned to the guard who was nice enough to stop for a quick chat - had there been a coffee available from the (unused) mini buffet counter, it would have been a top marks affair IMO.
I will be unhappy to see these HSTs replaced when the day comes.

 

[FrontSideBus]

Standard class, IMO, has been spoiled somewhat by the replacement seats and harsh LED lighting which gives it the ambience of a commuter DMU than a premium intercity service.

 

[BRX]

Yup, just about the worst lighting of any train in the UK. It's such a shame on an otherwise decent train. The whole point of the HSTs was to provide the intercity ambience. Seems fairly clear now that it'll never get fixed.

 

[Rhydgaled]

Standard class, IMO, has been spoiled somewhat by the replacement seats and harsh LED lighting which gives it the ambience of a commuter DMU than a premium intercity service.

Replacement seats? I thought ScotRail kept the seats installed by First Great Western (with new seat covers and possibly some of them being moved around a bit within each coach/set), regardless of first or standard class.

 

[Carntyne]

Correct. The seats haven't been changed.

 

[158715]

Correct. The seats haven't been changed.

The original post was probably comparing them to the original seats which were lower and, from what I remember, very comfortable. The LED lighting was probably installed at the same time as the replacement seats. I remember the GNER HSTs having the original seats fitted with brown covers and there was very nice lighting (not completely original I don't think), and I felt that was a lovely interior.

 

[FrontSideBus]

Correct, I was referring to the original IC70's.

 

[fgwrich]

Which thankfully are long gone and now largely confined to the history books.

There are a number of reasons as to why the IC70s and the original layout are gone. Both FGW & GNER reseated their HST sets due to tightening safety standards (if you’ve ever seen a shell of an IC70 break you’d understand why). This being particularly apparent after Ufton Nervett where Laminated safety glass was also rolled out across both fleets and also now sees widespread use across nearly all UK rolling stock fleets.

Increasing Passenger Numbers also saw the need to redesign the interior layouts too. FGWs was higher due to the Bristol & Cardiff Commuter flows - the Higher Density sets being created for that purpose, though in the end the Low and High density vehicles just ended up everywhere.

And frankly, they were worn out. Would you still be sitting on a sofa you’ve had from the 1970s, heavily used and sat on for up to 18 or so hours per day? The fixed armrests were prone to damage and rather uncomfortable if you had to get out of the seat and the lowness meant if you were a relatively tall person your head would be at the top of the seat. You don’t have many if at all any European Intercity services using the same interior layout from the same era. And the seats in the FGW / SCR HSTs is exactly the same as the RailJet operator if in Austria.

 

[FrontSideBus]

Well I've recently been on a few trips with Chiltern on their Mk3's and I found their re trimmed IC70's to be absolutely fantastic compared with modern offerings to be honest.
Personally, I was thinking how much of a step back modern rolling stock has become!

 

[92002]

Well I've recently been on a few trips with Chiltern on their Mk3's and I found their re trimmed IC70's to be absolutely fantastic compared with modern offerings to be honest.
Personally, I was thinking how much of a step back modern rolling stock has become!

Bit of a shock though if Chiltern replace the Mk3s with Mk5s.

 

[Blindtraveler]

The ic7 0 would be fine if it weren't for the fixed armrest but I don't suppose even a refurbishment of rolling stock including them would be allowed now as they are notoriously uncrashworthy. But I take the points being made and agree with them about modern rolling stock. Being a step back in quality. You only have to go to Europe to see what a good intercity offering could be. And not just on the state run operators. Either, one of the Austrian Open Access operations which is effectively only doing an inter-regional mid-distance Express is punching way above its weight in terms of its seat, comfort and on board facilities and also things like cleanliness and customer care
If Scotland had received hst's maybe back in the early 2010s then I suspect they could have been so much better and although we would still be looking to replace them, we wouldn't be trying to do it in a hurry with something that might not be completely ideal. And I dare say that with more time they could have got a handle on any reliability issues that there were and be better prepared for the current ones, which are primarily due to the entire thing becoming life expired

 

[Wolfie]

Well I've recently been on a few trips with Chiltern on their Mk3's and I found their re trimmed IC70's to be absolutely fantastic compared with modern offerings to be honest.
Personally, I was thinking how much of a step back modern rolling stock has become!

Oh Gawd, not the IC70 discussion again....

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Well I've recently been on a few trips with Chiltern on their Mk3's and I found their re trimmed IC70's to be absolutely fantastic compared with modern offerings to be honest.

IC70s really aren’t fantastic if there’s a collision, which is why the original plan to retain them on the FGW sets was aborted and new seats installed in the refurbs after Ufton Nervet.

 

[Rhydgaled]

the IC70s and the original layout are gone. Both FGW & GNER reseated their HST sets due to tightening safety standards

EMT didn't re-seat theirs though did they? If something's done for safety reasons there's normally no getting away from it.

Strangely I don't remember EMT or Chiltern mark 3s being anything special when I've tried them out, but the DRS mark 2 DBSO on the Cumbrian Coast (also fitted with IC70s?) might have been. Are some of them filled with soft foam and others with much harder stuff?

To get us back (nearly) on-topic the seats ATW installed on their 158s at refurb (which I think are the same as the FirstGW/ScotRail IC125 sets, except the headrests) are among the least bad of the modern hard seats in my view. Much better than the 'Ironing Board' junk Northern have now put in their 158s.

 

[Bletchleyite]

EMT didn't re-seat theirs though did they? If something's done for safety reasons there's normally no getting away from it.

There was allegedly a safety reason for doing it, namely that in an accident the IC70 plastic backs tended to break up and produce very hard, very pointy fragments. But grandfather rights would mean they didn't *have* to be replaced. FirstGroup and FGW/GWR have always been very safety oriented, though, perhaps due to their two nasty accidents involving HSTs. Perhaps EMR a bit less so.

 

[computerSaysNo]

There was allegedly a safety reason for doing it, namely that in an accident the IC70 plastic backs tended to break up and produce very hard, very pointy fragments. But grandfather rights would mean they didn't *have* to be replaced. FirstGroup and FGW/GWR have always been very safety oriented, though, perhaps due to their two nasty accidents involving HSTs. Perhaps EMR a bit less so.

Isn't the maximum speed on the Midland Mainline only 110mph too? So there may have been less push to replace them due to the slightly lower maximum speed compared to the East Coast and Great Western mainlines.

 

[hexagon789]

Isn't the maximum speed on the Midland Mainline only 110mph too? So there may have been less push to replace them due to the slightly lower maximum speed compared to the East Coast and Great Western mainlines.

It's been HST 125mph on the MML since January 2013 and the linespeed profile is far more jagged, requiring plenty of full power to accelerate from lower PSRs up to the newer higher ones to keep the accelerated timings. (Though the 222s gained more, as they accelerate faster so benefitted more from the increased limits.)

 

[Railperf]

It's been HST 125mph on the MML since January 2013 and the linespeed profile is far more jagged, requiring plenty of full power to accelerate from lower PSRs up to the newer higher ones to keep the accelerated timings. (Though the 222s gained more, as they accelerate faster so benefitted more from the increased limits.)

The 2+5 sets were not much slower than 222's. The HST's were slightly more pedestrian until 20-30mph where drivers would then apply full power whereas the 222's fly from a standing start. Also the HST brakes were not quite as responsive, which tended to cause drivers to approach stops more cautiously.

 

[hexagon789]

Has anyone got info on how 43129 is progressing with its collision damage repairs?

Am sure I read it was back at Haymarket Depot. I might be wrong

Just seen 43129 at Haymarket attached directly to 43175 no carriages

43129 re-entered service today, on set HA16 with 43163.