ScotRail request stop buttons at stations

[zwk500]

Given the numbers of passengers that press the 'assistance' button instead of the flush button, or can't find the 'lock door' button for the toilet, I guess an on train 'next stop please' button would be riddled with problems, including when to press it. The only answer is to do what you may do on the bus and shout at the driver 'next stop please'.

To be fair, if they installed stop buttons in exactly the same style and place (i.e. on handrails) as those on buses, I think it wouldn't take too much getting used to for people.

I think personally they should cross a ski lift with a Mail Train apparatus and not stop at all, but I think the ORR and RSSB may want to have words!

 

[Dai Corner]

Given the numbers of passengers that press the 'assistance' button instead of the flush button, or can't find the 'lock door' button for the toilet, I guess an on train 'next stop please' button would be riddled with problems, including when to press it. The only answer is to do what you may do on the bus and shout at the driver 'next stop please'.

PA announcement "the next station is Nowhere Central. Please press the Request Stop button near the door now if you wish to leave the train there" ?

 

[Skiddaw]

PA announcement "the next station is Nowhere Central. Please press the Request Stop button near the door now if you wish to leave the train there" ?

That's a good idea!

 

[High Dyke]

PA announcement "the next station is Nowhere Central. Please press the Request Stop button near the door now if you wish to leave the train there" ?

Reminds me of years ago. Train to Norwich arriving at Brandon,, passenger asks the guard "Is this Brandon?" The guard replies "nah mate, this the middle of nowhere!"

Potentially a good Idea for stations that are already low usage / request stops; however, does this proposal achieve much to improve journey times?

 

[Baxenden Bank]

To be fair, if they installed stop buttons in exactly the same style and place (i.e. on handrails) as those on buses, I think it wouldn't take too much getting used to for people.

I think personally they should cross a ski lift with a Mail Train apparatus and not stop at all, but I think the ORR and RSSB may want to have words!

Regarding buttons as per bus handrails a fair point but, outside the main cities. I'm not sure how familiar most passengers would be with that arrangement nowadays. A planning application local to me used 1% modal split for public transport use for an edge of city suburb!

As for the second point, I see you are a visionary. Elf 'n safety gone mad innit mate. How about water troughs/scoops and ballast hopper discharge?

Reminds me of years ago. Train to Norwich arriving at Brandon,, passenger asks the guard "Is this Brandon?" The guard replies "nah mate, this the middle of nowhere!"

Potentially a good Idea for stations that are already low usage / request stops; however, does this proposal achieve much to improve journey times?

At some point in its journey, the train will have to wait time to allow for the potential calls at all request stops which were not made, or arrive late at its final destination if the timings are tightened. Not having to brake prior to, and accelerate after, an uncalled at stop will save some brake wear and fuel I guess.

 

[mmh]

What a splendid idea however! Beats having to find the guard in advance to ask for the train to stop. We've done it a few times when hill walking in the Highlands. I remember once having a right panic attack on the Oban train because we needed to get out at Falls of Cruachan and couldn't find anyone to ask. We very nearly missed it.

Why didn't you ask as you got on? That's what I always do.

 

[Brissle Girl]

At some point in its journey, the train will have to wait time to allow for the potential calls at all request stops which were not made, or arrive late at its final destination if the timings are tightened. Not having to brake prior to, and accelerate after, an uncalled at stop will save some brake wear and fuel I guess.

Though if it was late when passing the stops in question, it would presumably enable a modest amount of time to be made up, which over up to eight stations might add up to a few minutes.

 

[Skiddaw]

Why didn't you ask as you got on? That's what I always do.

We got on at Dalmally (we were staying there at the time) and there was no one around to ask. We located the guard eventually but there isn't much time between Dalmally and Falls of Cruachan (we were doing a hill walk from the damn back to Dalmally).

 

[Dai Corner]

We got on at Dalmally (we were staying there at the time) and there was no one around to ask. We located the guard eventually but there isn't much time between Dalmally and Falls of Cruachan (we were doing a hill walk from the damn back to Dalmally).

Didn't the guard step on to the platform while the train was stopped?

 

[Skiddaw]

Not that I remember actually and we were on the look-out for someone to ask. Possibly we just didn't spot him before we got on.

 

[Kite159]

When did Falls of Cruachan become a request stop?

 

[Railsigns]

When did Falls of Cruachan become a request stop?

When it reopened in 1988. It subsequently lost request stop status.

 

[Skiddaw]

When it reopened in 1988. It subsequently lost request stop status.

It's going back a fair old time now. I'd guess 1997 or thereabouts.

 

[34006]

This equipment doesn't solve any problems. Down here in Devon we have the same type of railway. Barnstaple to Exeter St. Davids Lots of unstaffed small stations which are request stops. Arm out to stop the train, tell the ticket checker if you want the train to stop.
If the driver knows in advance that he does not need to stop, then he will travel quicker. The timetable has to accept the possibility that the train will have to stop at most if not all the unstaffed halts.So the timetable is padded out.
If the train passes through the halts without stopping and at a higher speed, then it will arrive at the main station early, in this case it will be Exeter, and it will have to wait outside for its path and platform.
So what has been gained ? same timetable, same stock, same staff.

 

[Dai Corner]

This equipment doesn't solve any problems. Down here in Devon we have the same type of railway. Barnstaple to Exeter St. Davids Lots of unstaffed small stations which are request stops. Arm out to stop the train, tell the ticket checker if you want the train to stop.
If the driver knows in advance that he does not need to stop, then he will travel quicker. The timetable has to accept the possibility that the train will have to stop at most if not all the unstaffed halts.So the timetable is padded out.
If the train passes through the halts without stopping and at a higher speed, then it will arrive at the main station early, in this case it will be Exeter, and it will have to wait outside for its path and platform.
So what has been gained ? same timetable, same stock, same staff.

I'm not a timetable planner but I suspect they can assume the train won't have to stop at every request stop so a faster journey can be booked. Yes, it may run late if it occasionally does have to stop everywhere. Then there's the fuel and maintenance savings.

 

[najaB]

If the driver knows in advance that he does not need to stop, then he will travel quicker.

Exactly! At present, how is a driver able know in advance that they don't need to stop for someone boarding?

 

[zwk500]

I'm not a timetable planner but I suspect they can assume the train won't have to stop at every request stop so a faster journey can be booked. Yes, it may run late if it occasionally does have to stop everywhere. Then there's the fuel and maintenance savings.

Request stops are planned with the train stopping for 0 seconds dwell (a 'dotstop') with 30 seconds additional runtime allowance on approach. There's probably a reason to show it as 0 seconds rather than just a 30 second dwell, but I've got no idea what it is.

 

[Brissle Girl]

This equipment doesn't solve any problems. Down here in Devon we have the same type of railway. Barnstaple to Exeter St. Davids Lots of unstaffed small stations which are request stops. Arm out to stop the train, tell the ticket checker if you want the train to stop.
If the driver knows in advance that he does not need to stop, then he will travel quicker. The timetable has to accept the possibility that the train will have to stop at most if not all the unstaffed halts.So the timetable is padded out.
If the train passes through the halts without stopping and at a higher speed, then it will arrive at the main station early, in this case it will be Exeter, and it will have to wait outside for its path and platform.
So what has been gained ? same timetable, same stock, same staff.

Anything that improves timekeeping on the Far North Line is to be welcomed. (which it will do if the timetable assumes every stop is required but in reality many won’t be, so recovery from late running will be possible).

 

[Unstoppable]

Regarding buttons as per bus handrails a fair point but, outside the main cities. I'm not sure how familiar most passengers would be with that arrangement nowadays. A planning application local to me used 1% modal split for public transport use for an edge of city suburb!

As for the second point, I see you are a visionary. Elf 'n safety gone mad innit mate. How about water troughs/scoops and ballast hopper discharge?


At some point in its journey, the train will have to wait time to allow for the potential calls at all request stops which were not made, or arrive late at its final destination if the timings are tightened. Not having to brake prior to, and accelerate after, an uncalled at stop will save some brake wear and fuel I guess.

There is no additional time in the schedule for these request stops on the Far North. You find if you even make 1 call at a request stop you end up running late. Running early is very unlikely. You are more likely to find the service actually arrives on time (for once)

 

[34006]

If Scotrail are going to tighten up the timetable to incorporate the faster running speeds, then something has been gained.
If they continue to use the existing timetable, then what has been gained ? Operating costs have increased to run the technology, so the likelihood of station closures is increased.

 

[Trainbike46]

If Scotrail are going to tighten up the timetable to incorporate the faster running speeds, then something has been gained.
If they continue to use the existing timetable, then what has been gained ? Operating costs have increased to run the technology, so the likelihood of station closures is increased.

Potentially better reliability as there is more opportunity to catch up on delays?

But who says the timetable isn't being changed anyway

 

[paul1609]

If Scotrail are going to tighten up the timetable to incorporate the faster running speeds, then something has been gained.
If they continue to use the existing timetable, then what has been gained ? Operating costs have increased to run the technology, so the likelihood of station closures is increased.

They can install card readers and introduce a charge for the train to stop. say £10 or free to bus pass holders

 

[najaB]

If they continue to use the existing timetable, then what has been gained ?

It makes the railway more friendly, and the operational costs are minuscule given that they have a data connection to the stations for the card readers anyway.

 

[nkt1]

I tried to wave down a train at Rogart a few years back, but it didn't stop. The fact that I was standing on the wrong platform probably didn't help. I can't remember whether there was no information as to which platform to use, or the train came through on the 'wrong' side. Either way, ScotRail paid for a taxi to take me to Inverness. So I can see how this system would be very useful.

 

[james73]

I tried to wave down a train at Rogart a few years back, but it didn't stop. The fact that I was standing on the wrong platform probably didn't help. I can't remember whether there was no information as to which platform to use, or the train came through on the 'wrong' side. Either way, ScotRail paid for a taxi to take me to Inverness. So I can see how this system would be very useful.

The only request stops I've used are both on the FW - Mallaig line - Lochailort and Loch Eil Outward Bound. Can't help get paranoid that the train won't stop when you're waiting. A button would be very welcome.

 

[Parallel]

The only request stops I've used are both on the FW - Mallaig line - Lochailort and Loch Eil Outward Bound. Can't help get paranoid that the train won't stop when you're waiting. A button would be very welcome.

I’d feel less confident that the train was to stop if I pressed a button, than standing in clear view on the platform with my arm out. That’s just me though.

 

[Altnabreac]

I was using the request stop at Schwendi on the Berner Oberland Bahn (BOB), Switzerland this week.

Worked perfectly. Had 2 different buttons on the machine - one for direction Grindelwald and one for direction Zweilutschinen. They are under a live screen that shows the trains due in the next hour. two other buttons between them for pre recorded timetable information and a customer help point. Once you hit the request button the display changes to show a big red STOP next to the train in the direction you have chosen.

On the train the same process operates. There is a request stop button and when you press it the destination screen above the doors on the train which shows the next station changes to show the same big red STOP.

BOB now works in this area without a Guard so you need the on train button to request the stop.

Completely seamless process so if that is what Scotrail are modelling the process on it should be excellent.

 

[Starmill]

Potentially better reliability as there is more opportunity to catch up on delays?

But who says the timetable isn't being changed anyway

This is a pretty significant improvement. Trains can now pass Scotscalder at 70 miles / hour if the button hasn't been pressed. Previously drivers needed to slow to approximate 20 miles / hour to be able to stop in sight of the platform.

 

[jawr256]

I visited Scotscalder on Friday (2nd September) while bagging various quiet stations on the Far North Line and have some photos demonstrating the process for using the request stop button:

1. Sign on entering station about request stop kiosk
2. Sign in waiting shelter next to request stop kiosk confirming that the traditional method of signalling to the driver is still available. (A train I was on which was not requested slowed down accordingly). I assume this may eventually be removed if the trial is successful (as implied in post #71)
3. Request stop kiosk showing time and status of next trains (sorry for the reflection!)
4. If you press the button more than twenty minutes before the next train, a message pops up at the bottom saying the request function is not yet available
5. At twenty minutes before the train is due, a message pops up with details of the next service and the instruction 'press the button to board the service'. In this case the train was on time, so if the train were delayed I'm not sure if this activation time would also change.
6. After you press the button, the service details turn green and the message says 'this service will stop at this station'.

There wasn't any indication of a cut-off time after which the service could no longer be requested, and I pushed the button just under twenty minutes before my train so couldn't see what would happen if I waited longer. This would surely require precise information on the position of the train, since you'd still want to be able to request a delayed train that was yet to arrive, and I get the impression that the train running information on the existing passenger information screens only updates infrequently (e.g. at radio token exchange points).

Tempting though it was to hide out of sight of the approaching train to check if it still stopped, I had a schedule to keep so stood prominently on the platform as the train approached but did not signal. Naturally the train stopped.

While the system was only active at Scotscalder, I noticed the kiosks had been installed at Kinbrace, Kildonan, Rogart and Invershin but covered out of use. Rogart is the only one with more than one platform and had one on each platform. I didn't spot them at Altnabreac or Dunrobin Castle unless they were hiding in a building, and didn't check Culrain.

 

[najaB]

I visited Scotscalder on Friday (2nd September) while bagging various quiet stations on the Far North Line and have some photos demonstrating the process for using the request stop button

Thanks very much for taking the time to share those.