Scotrail RMT strike action and possible temporary service cuts to a third of services

[43066]

Revenue nationwide is currently at 81%. Not quite as apocalyptic as some (not saying you personally) people like to make out.

That's an average, boosted by the likes of LNER who have recovered very well. I'm sure the figure is rather less buoyant over at ScotRail; certainly passenger numbers were well below the rest of the UK based on the last figures I saw.

I must admit that’s higher than I realised. Overall excellent news and bodes well for the future considering the pandemic restrictions are still in the recent past. Imagine where we will be in another year or so; higher revenues than pre Covid quite possibly.

Not apocalyptic but 20% is a big number.

It was much too overcrowded before (bits of it still are of course). I’m sure we all prefer using it now .

 

[InOban]

Considering Scotrail was Abellio at the time, to freeze training seems odd considering their sister TOC Greater Anglia worked wonders throughout the pandemic with driver training. I suppose it has a lot to do with whether local ASLEF reps where as agreeable or if Scotlands Covid rules where different.

Most scotrail units are through gangwayed and so have small driver spaces. Impossible to maintain any legal spacing between driver and trainee. At least that's what Abellio were saying.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Most scotrail units are through gangwayed and so have small driver spaces. Impossible to maintain any legal spacing between driver and trainee. At least that's what Abellio were saying.

When the gangway is closed the cab is open to the secondman's side, isn't it?

 

[InOban]

Not apocalyptic but 20% is a big number.

I knew passenger numbers were at 80%, I hadn't read that revenue was, I'm not sure that's public.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I knew passenger numbers were at 80%, I hadn't read that revenue was, I'm not sure that's public.

If passenger numbers are 80% and business/season ticket revenue is down, revenue will be far lower than 80%. Leisure travellers typically travel on lower priced tickets.

 

[Watershed]

I must admit that’s higher than I realised. Overall excellent news and bodes well for the future considering the pandemic restrictions are still in the recent past. Imagine where we will be in another year or so; higher revenues than pre Covid quite possibly.

Unfortunately it's pretty much flatlined around that level. There are still some TOCs where reduced timetables or unreliability (cancellations, industrial action) are inhibiting growth, but broadly speaking this is as good as it's likely to get, absent a major change to travel patterns.

 

[MalaiseForever]

If passenger numbers are 80% and business/season ticket revenue is down, revenue will be far lower than 80%. Leisure travellers typically travel on lower priced tickets.

Revenue is at 81% industry wide. I am literally sat looking at the latest revenue report now.

 

[Carlisle]

Most scotrail units are through gangwayed and so have small driver spaces. Impossible to maintain any legal spacing between driver and trainee. At least that's what Abellio were saying.

That’s what the ‘Training Bubble’ concept was supposed to address, wasn’t it ?

 

[InOban]

Revenue is at 81% industry wide. I am literally sat looking at the latest revenue report now.

I'm sure that we're all delighted to hear this. I think that some were sceptical because the published graphs were for passengers, not revenue. I guess that the move to longer distance leisure journeys cancels out the loss of full fare traffic over shorter distances.

 

[Wynd]

What is the revenue figure for Scotrail? 65%? 75%?

 

[Dryce]

Revenue nationwide is currently at 81%. Not quite as apocalyptic as some (not saying you personally) people like to make out.

Gross revenue including public support ?

Net revenue from passengers?

Or number of passengers?

Or number of journeys?

Or passenger / km?

What I have noticed in my travels in London and WCML is that (a) disproportionate number of what I think are leisure passengers doing long distance and (b) in London it feels busier at the weekends than on weekdays.

The problem for the railways if this is the pattern then a disproportionate amount of public money ends up subsidising leisure travel rather than commuters and business passengers.

 

[John Bishop]

What is the revenue figure for Scotrail? 65%? 75%?

Scotrail revenue down 26% on pre COVID.

 

[al78]

Maybe things are different in Scotland, but using covid as an excuse is no longer acceptable, some businesses have gone back to simply ill or not ill as a determinant of if staff are off sick or fit to work

I seem to be hearing it quite frequently, but then I live in the SE.

 

[MalaiseForever]

Gross revenue including public support ?

Net revenue from passengers?

Or number of passengers?

Or number of journeys?

Or passenger / km?

What I have noticed in my travels in London and WCML is that (a) disproportionate number of what I think are leisure passengers doing long distance and (b) in London it feels busier at the weekends than on weekdays.

The problem for the railways if this is the pattern then a disproportionate amount of public money ends up subsidising leisure travel rather than commuters and business passengers.

Net revenue from passengers versus the same week in 2019. So last weeks revenue was 81% of the same week in 2019.

 

[ar10642]

I'd be interested to see what effect the recent Rail Sale had on revenue. I got some absolutely fantastic value tickets on Thameslink during that time and would have taken advantage more had it been possible for me. Return from Haywards Heath > London Thameslink on the same day, not tied to specific trains for £8.50 or so, that's really great value.

 

[Wynd]

Scotrail revenue down 26% on pre COVID.

I know its not linear, but it will be interesting to see how that feeds through to the overall public subsidy.

 

[Llandudno]

Indeed, the covid seems to have convinced the industry & it's decision makers that actually running services people need for work, leisure & even to help reduce their carbon footprint is secondary at the moment.



Please don't tell me you are actually being serious? If people get chased off the trains onto buses, they are equally likely to go back to the car.

Absolutely, I don’t know of any car drivers that would leave their already paid for car on the drive and travel by bus … unless you are lucky enough to live in (an ever decreasing) area with buses after 6pm and use them to go to/from the (ever decreasing) pub!

Revenue is at 81% industry wide. I am literally sat looking at the latest revenue report now.

I think that’s pretty good considering some operators are only running about 60% of services…!

Plus all the industrial action and widespread cancellations across the north of England and Scotland!

 

[Deltic1961]

Where I live, it's a 13 mile round trip to the City Centre. I can get 2 hours free parking in a supermarket car park. I have a Honda Civic Type R which does 30mpg, so at current expensive petrol prices it costs me £3.17 to town and back. the train is £3.90 return and £2.90 for a single. My car is gutsy and petrol prices are up but still as a car owner with that simple calculation it's more expensive to take the train. My son has a Citigo which does 60mpg so it's twice as bad for him.

I know there are other costs in owning a car so it's not that simple but if you own one already the train isn't very appealing.

Scotrail push up commuter train fares well above inflation so it's only going to get worse. They really should charge by the mile as that would be the fairest system but we know that'll never ever happen.

 

[Wynd]

Correct. Busses dont discourage people who drive cars. Especially not those who drive cars as a status symbol. A lot of people in government do not get this at all.

 

[choochoochoo]

I doubt we'll ever see the end of RDW despite TOC claims to be training sufficient crew to not require it.

We'll have to have dozens of drivers sitting spare to cover unplanned leave/sickness/adhoc absence.

 

[Wynd]

Where I live, it's a 13 mile round trip to the City Centre. I can get 2 hours free parking in a supermarket car park. I have a Honda Civic Type R which does 30mpg, so at current expensive petrol prices it costs me £3.17 to town and back. the train is £3.90 return and £2.90 for a single. My car is gutsy and petrol prices are up but still as a car owner with that simple calculation it's more expensive to take the train. My son has a Citigo which does 60mpg so it's twice as bad for him.

Only that journey takes about 3 times longer by car or bus and Aberdeen is a very car friendly city to the determent of walkers and cyclists alike.

The train is the quickest and easiest way to go from Dyce to Aberdeen and back.

 

[ainsworth74]

I doubt we'll ever see the end of RDW despite TOC claims to be training sufficient crew to not require it.

We'll have to have dozens of drivers sitting spare to cover unplanned leave/sickness/adhoc absence.

It one of these things where there needs to be balance. A bit of RDW is probably not especially harmful for anyone but the industries reliance on it, even pre-Covid, was probably too much. But having no RDW at all would have the problem of an excess of staff floating around.

 

[43066]

The problem for the railways if this is the pattern then a disproportionate amount of public money ends up subsidising leisure travel rather than commuters and business passengers.

I don't really see why that should be seen as a “problem for the railways” when it’s remembered that that the railway’s raison d’etre , and the reason why it’s subsidised in the first place, is to stimulate economic growth through transport. If the ratio of leisure to business travellers is a little more skewed in favour of the former post covid, what’s the issue?

 

[Wynd]

I don't really see why that should be seen as a “problem for the railways” when it’s remembered that that the railway’s raison d’etre , and the reason why it’s subsidised in the first place, is to stimulate economic growth through transport. If the ratio of leisure to business travellers is a little more skewed in favour of the former post covid, what’s the issue?

It doesnt. What matters is the level of the subsidy. The simple way to solve that is to up patronage.

Going on strike is possibly the worst course of action at this time. It would only lead to cuts.

 

[choochoochoo]

I forsee a summer of discontent !! The railway is not the only sector balloting for industrial action.

 

[geoffk]

Rail travel is one option amongst several for most people outside London. If trains are disrupted many people have alternatives. It's time that reality was faced.

Yes, and many other groups of workers went "above and beyond" during the Covid period - lorry and van delivery drivers, postal and refuse collection workers, supermarket staff and of course everyone in the front line of the NHS.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Yes, and many other groups of workers went "above and beyond" during the Covid period - lorry and van delivery drivers

Questionable. They work alone so were at little or no elevated COVID risk, and they stopped knocking on doors and just left parcels in the street, a practice that still continues to the delight of petty thieves. I wouldn't be cutting the likes of Hermes couriers any slack at all.

The ones I'd be shouting for (aside from traincrew and bus drivers) are healthcare workers (who worked with inadequate protection despite it being obvious what they needed - FFP3 respirators) and teachers (same), potentially plus supermarket staff. The others weren't at any significant elevated risk and often got an easier job, not a harder one. For instance operating a delivery based takeaway kitchen is easier than operating a restaurant kitchen.

 

[baz962]

Yes, and many other groups of workers went "above and beyond" during the Covid period - lorry and van delivery drivers, postal and refuse collection workers, supermarket staff and of course everyone in the front line of the NHS.

And many of those deserve a raise too. But it's up to them to push for more or accept it , as it is for traincrew.

 

[muz379]

It is the RMT's fault they are speaking of ScotRail in this manner, and I'm afraid it's rank hypocrisy as they're happy to work them when they want.

You either want it or you don't. I bet they'd shout if all RDW was to cease permanently because sufficient staff were employed, with only the odd bit of same-day overtime when there were severe delays to a train a member was driving or guarding, without extra money being offered (and nor should it be).

As usual, ASLEF are saying the same sort of thing but in a far more measured manner. RMT are behaving disgracefully and hypocritically.

It is about time that Unions influencing a mass approach to volunteering or not volunteering was considered in law to be industrial action, as in any meaningful sense it is.

You do realise it is ASLEF who are the union that sanction RDW for their members and thus are the ones that can and do often withdraw the RDW agreement when disputes occur .

I am not aware of any toc for which RDW is sanctioned for guards in this way so the only way RDW can be withdrawn is with a ballot and work to rule being declared as part of a trades dispute .

Either way , nothing in the article says that either ASLEF or RMT have removed any sanction for RDW . Just that after ASLEF anouncing their ballot for drivers some drivers have decided to make themselves unavailable

 

[Falcon1200]

But I strongly suspect that this goes a lot deeper than what we are now seeing and the impacts of the pandemic and various other wishy-washy excuses like passenger numbers and now being used for something much deeper. i

Reduced passenger numbers are the reason, or excuse if preferred, for Scotrail now running fewer trains than pre-Covid, but the reason for the planned, temporary, additional cancellations is staff shortage.

The train is the quickest and easiest way to go from Dyce to Aberdeen and back.

As in so many other examples, only if your origin is near Dyce station and your destination is near Aberdeen station.