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Scotrail Trainee Drivers (Ongoing)

Gedphones

Member
Joined
22 Feb 2019
Messages
74
100% there is one back. Heard there's been a bit of a negative reaction to his DI and DTM...
I say 100%, that's not strictly true. Been told by more than one person there's someone got passed out about a month ago. Perth I think. Who knows. Hopefully when safe to do so more of us can get back in the cab and start actually earning our money.
 
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scotraildriver

Established Member
Joined
15 Jun 2009
Messages
1,634
All these things you "hear" on the railway need to be taken with a very huge dose of salt. The company and the unions are working very hard to reach a suitable conclusion to allow training to restart. Temperature testing, PPE, bubbles etc all being worked on. Don't believe everything (or anything) you "hear". Training will restart soon in a safe and controlled manner.
 

C001

Member
Joined
30 Aug 2019
Messages
148
Well it’s fairly easy to enforce the 2m rule in bothies and one which the company cannot really argue against. It’s impossible to enforce the 2m rule in cabs so a workaround has to be found and mitigation’s put in place.

If the trainee has taken a test and proved negative, I can’t really see what the issue is with a DTM getting in a cab with a trainee for a limited time. What’s the chance of the trainee contracting the virus between getting the test and doing their assessment, especially when PPE is being worn. I think their needs to be a bit of rational/ sensible thinking involved here and not over dramatising the situation.

How are other TOCs/ FOCs managing the situation? I know some have never stopped training and some have restarted to ops normal many weeks ago.
[/QUOTE
 
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318320380385

New Member
Joined
9 Sep 2020
Messages
1
Location
Glasgow
As prep wondering of anyone able to help with tractions and routes for each of the following depots please? Had a look through and couldnt see anything specific.

Yoker
Corkerhill
Glasgow Central
Glasgow Shields

TIA
 

Stigy

Established Member
Joined
6 Nov 2009
Messages
4,889
Until Scottish government guidance changes and it is 100% safe to have for 2 in the cab trainees shouldn't be resuming their training.
Oh, so are you one of the people who won't go to the pub/gym/shops/cafe/work or visit family?

No further questions. :rolleyes:

Thankfully a lot of (most?) DIs are less militant than others and can see the risk for what it is. Minimal.
 

scotraildriver

Established Member
Joined
15 Jun 2009
Messages
1,634
Training HAS to resume at some point as does revenue collection. The company and unions all agree on that. The government are not going to pour money into the railways indefinitely to run mostly empty trains or pay trainees/TEs etc to do nothing. If we don't start returning to some sort of normality, and hopefully see a substantial increase in passenger numbers there will, without doubt, be job losses on the railway. Of course it must be done safely and properly, but there are too many people living in a railway bubble who think we are untouchable and will never lose their jobs. The number of comments I've heard like "I hope this lasts for ages, its great" etc is unbelievable. People need to get a grip on reality and realise jobs WILL be on the line if this goes on for a considerable time. Everyone needs to work together to achieve a satisfactory outcome. Doing nothing until its all over isn't an option. My OT is a police officer and has been sharing a car with another officer throughout. There is no other option and has been carefully managed. It hadn't caused any issues and no one has become ill. It can be done.
 

Stigy

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Joined
6 Nov 2009
Messages
4,889
Training HAS to resume at some point as does revenue collection. The company and unions all agree on that. The government are not going to pour money into the railways indefinitely to run mostly empty trains or pay trainees/TEs etc to do nothing. If we don't start returning to some sort of normality, and hopefully see a substantial increase in passenger numbers there will, without doubt, be job losses on the railway. Of course it must be done safely and properly, but there are too many people living in a railway bubble who think we are untouchable and will never lose their jobs. The number of comments I've heard like "I hope this lasts for ages, its great" etc is unbelievable. People need to get a grip on reality and realise jobs WILL be on the line if this goes on for a considerable time. Everyone needs to work together to achieve a satisfactory outcome. Doing nothing until its all over isn't an option.
Agreed. And this virus isn't going anywhere soon either, so we just have to learn to live with it.
 

320320

Member
Joined
5 Jun 2015
Messages
289
The vast majority of people wouldn’t choose to spend 5 or 6 hours per day in a confined space, breathing the same air as a stranger in a pub/gym/cafe/shop or work so why do people expect train drivers to put up With this?

If the risk is so minimal why are parts of the country in lockdown again with the threat of more to come and second waves of this virus if social distancing isn’t maintained.

You won’t see any TOC or FOC management sharing a confined space with another person for 5 or 6 hours per day So it’s a bit rich asking train drivers to do it just so that trainees become productive and aren’t being paid for sitting on their arses in the house.

Anybody that seriously thinks that guys are going to risk catching COVID just so that trainees can get passed out are in for a shock, there will be some DIs and DTMs that do it but to think that training will resume at the normal rate is naive at best.
 

hiall

Member
Joined
19 Jun 2009
Messages
109
I never knew there was a depot in la la land as it seems most of the posters on here, bar 1, are based there.


Im going to keep this simple and it will be my last post on the subject matter.


Training with 2 in the cab, regardless of the protocols in place, should not be taking place. It breaks Scottish government guidance and will put at risk the health of the individuals involved. I understand the need for training to recommence but not at the expense of peoples health.


Thankfully at the depots I frequent dis and Dtms understand this and will not be putting their wellbeing and their loved ones at risk.


DIs DO NOT have to learn to live with this as training is OPTIONAL. If by some reason, which it won't and can't, be forced upon them I would imagine they would, en masse, hand their training passes back. That's how serious they are taking this. They are not cannon fodder. They DO NOT have to double up like the police force or aviation industry. They are drivers first, trainers second and could quit the role at any point with no consequences to them and I doubt they would miss the financial gains the role brings as it is a pittance.


The dis I know are a professional bunch who DO NOT cut corners so if you think they would do so in this instance then you are wrong.


This is the reality of the situation. Take it or leave it.
 

Stigy

Established Member
Joined
6 Nov 2009
Messages
4,889
I never knew there was a depot in la la land as it seems most of the posters on here, bar 1, are based there.


Im going to keep this simple and it will be my last post on the subject matter.


Training with 2 in the cab, regardless of the protocols in place, should not be taking place. It breaks Scottish government guidance and will put at risk the health of the individuals involved. I understand the need for training to recommence but not at the expense of peoples health.


Thankfully at the depots I frequent dis and Dtms understand this and will not be putting their wellbeing and their loved ones at risk.


DIs DO NOT have to learn to live with this as training is OPTIONAL. If by some reason, which it won't and can't, be forced upon them I would imagine they would, en masse, hand their training passes back. That's how serious they are taking this. They are not cannon fodder. They DO NOT have to double up like the police force or aviation industry. They are drivers first, trainers second and could quit the role at any point with no consequences to them and I doubt they would miss the financial gains the role brings as it is a pittance.


The dis I know are a professional bunch who DO NOT cut corners so if you think they would do so in this instance then you are wrong.


This is the reality of the situation. Take it or leave it.
Are you sure you’re not both of the posters you say are not living in La La Land? Because to me it seems you’re very much in a minority.

Indeed it is optional. Unfortunately though, most DIs would probably object if the TOC said they were removing their DI status. Where I’m based, all of our DIs have agreed to participate.

We have to learn to live with this in general, for our own futures. Not solely work related.

The vast majority of people wouldn’t choose to spend 5 or 6 hours per day in a confined space, breathing the same air as a stranger in a pub/gym/cafe/shop or work so why do people expect train drivers to put up With this?

If the risk is so minimal why are parts of the country in lockdown again with the threat of more to come and second waves of this virus if social distancing isn’t maintained.

You won’t see any TOC or FOC management sharing a confined space with another person for 5 or 6 hours per day So it’s a bit rich asking train drivers to do it just so that trainees become productive and aren’t being paid for sitting on their arses in the house.

Anybody that seriously thinks that guys are going to risk catching COVID just so that trainees can get passed out are in for a shock, there will be some DIs and DTMs that do it but to think that training will resume at the normal rate is naive at best.
You only have to look at the statistics to see that although cases of Covid are up, hospitalisation and deaths are at the lowest they have been. Does this not indicate that we’re just generally getting on with it now and wash our hands/wear masks?

I don’t think anybody thinks or is suggesting that training will resume at the normal rate, but if we are constantly running scared from this virus, we will cripple the economy even more and there will be a lot more deaths than we’ve had from Covid, through suicide and illnesses going undiagnosed.

Anyway, I don’t even work for ScotRail :D.
 
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hollyblue

Member
Joined
31 Aug 2018
Messages
15
I never knew there was a depot in la la land as it seems most of the posters on here, bar 1, are based there.


Im going to keep this simple and it will be my last post on the subject matter.


Training with 2 in the cab, regardless of the protocols in place, should not be taking place. It breaks Scottish government guidance and will put at risk the health of the individuals involved. I understand the need for training to recommence but not at the expense of peoples health.


Thankfully at the depots I frequent dis and Dtms understand this and will not be putting their wellbeing and their loved ones at risk.


DIs DO NOT have to learn to live with this as training is OPTIONAL. If by some reason, which it won't and can't, be forced upon them I would imagine they would, en masse, hand their training passes back. That's how serious they are taking this. They are not cannon fodder. They DO NOT have to double up like the police force or aviation industry. They are drivers first, trainers second and could quit the role at any point with no consequences to them and I doubt they would miss the financial gains the role brings as it is a pittance.


The dis I know are a professional bunch who DO NOT cut corners so if you think they would do so in this instance then you are wrong.


This is the reality of the situation. Take it or leave it.
Very interesting as the DI’s I know are happy to get started again as soon the the Protocol is signed off with the union, and make no mistake it will be signed off.

You have a clear downer on trainees for some reason and it Is showing through now. Whether YOU think training should or shouldn’t be going on is completely irrelevant in all honesty as it’ll happen and it’ll happen soon. If training doesn’t start, OTR drivers can’t be re trained or refreshed in the current world, trainees need verified otherwise there simply aren’t enough drivers it’s actually quite simple!

You use police and aviation industry together and how they are different to DI’s. Correct, but to use aviation and police as similar is wholly nonsensical. The aviation world have just got on with it here, all agreed early doors and people cracking on. The police, fire etc have to get on with it there’s no option.

Training will be starting again very very soon it’s literally small points to be signed off. Nobody will be forced to do anything but the ‘pittance’ you say DI’s get paid IS important to many and sure as heck isn’t a pittance! The DI’s I know are ALL very keen to start again so your findings seem odd to say the least.
 

John Bishop

Member
Joined
15 Nov 2018
Messages
595
Location
Perth
^^ good post Holly blue! I concur.

Im beginning to wonder if hiall is just trolling to get a reaction from people. I’m not aware of any other similar postings by other people on any other TOC thread.
 

Driver1122

Member
Joined
14 Aug 2020
Messages
47
Location
Scotland
I never knew there was a depot in la la land as it seems most of the posters on here, bar 1, are based there.


Im going to keep this simple and it will be my last post on the subject matter.


Training with 2 in the cab, regardless of the protocols in place, should not be taking place. It breaks Scottish government guidance and will put at risk the health of the individuals involved. I understand the need for training to recommence but not at the expense of peoples health.


Thankfully at the depots I frequent dis and Dtms understand this and will not be putting their wellbeing and their loved ones at risk.


DIs DO NOT have to learn to live with this as training is OPTIONAL. If by some reason, which it won't and can't, be forced upon them I would imagine they would, en masse, hand their training passes back. That's how serious they are taking this. They are not cannon fodder. They DO NOT have to double up like the police force or aviation industry. They are drivers first, trainers second and could quit the role at any point with no consequences to them and I doubt they would miss the financial gains the role brings as it is a pittance.


The dis I know are a professional bunch who DO NOT cut corners so if you think they would do so in this instance then you are wrong.


This is the reality of the situation. Take it or leave it.

You are filled with too much self importance.

cba spending much more time replying to you, well time will tell.

Very interesting as the DI’s I know are happy to get started again as soon the the Protocol is signed off with the union, and make no mistake it will be signed off.

You have a clear downer on trainees for some reason and it Is showing through now. Whether YOU think training should or shouldn’t be going on is completely irrelevant in all honesty as it’ll happen and it’ll happen soon. If training doesn’t start, OTR drivers can’t be re trained or refreshed in the current world, trainees need verified otherwise there simply aren’t enough drivers it’s actually quite simple!

You use police and aviation industry together and how they are different to DI’s. Correct, but to use aviation and police as similar is wholly nonsensical. The aviation world have just got on with it here, all agreed early doors and people cracking on. The police, fire etc have to get on with it there’s no option.

Training will be starting again very very soon it’s literally small points to be signed off. Nobody will be forced to do anything but the ‘pittance’ you say DI’s get paid IS important to many and sure as heck isn’t a pittance! The DI’s I know are ALL very keen to start again so your findings seem odd to say the least.
Well said.
 

320320

Member
Joined
5 Jun 2015
Messages
289
Nobody has said that training won’t resume or that they don’t want it to resume but there’s a massive difference in the opinions and expectations of posters in this thread.

In the area I work, most, but not all drivers and DIs won’t have another person sharing their cab when they’re driving until there’s a vaccine.

I understand fully that trainees are desperate to get back to work and get passed out and that scotrail want the trainees to be productive but the idea that “we need to get back to it” or “learn to live with this virus” means nothing to me or many of my colleagues when it comes to doing our jobs. I won’t put myself or my family at risk of catching COVID because it’s not my responsibility to ensure the railway has enough drivers to fulfill the timetable.

This wouldn’t be as big a problem if TOCs had proactively employed enough staff to run a service rather than scrape by using rest day working like they always have done and now being caught out.
 

kickin aff

Member
Joined
16 Oct 2015
Messages
164
If both the trainee and the DI are regularly Covid tested and the trainee is happy to wear a face covering. Surely the risk is minimal. Driving instructors and their learner drivers are sitting in cars, both masked up and mixed households. No complaints from them.
 

John Bishop

Member
Joined
15 Nov 2018
Messages
595
Location
Perth
Nobody has said that training won’t resume or that they don’t want it to resume but there’s a massive difference in the opinions and expectations of posters in this thread.

In the area I work, most, but not all drivers and DIs won’t have another person sharing their cab when they’re driving until there’s a vaccine.

I understand fully that trainees are desperate to get back to work and get passed out and that scotrail want the trainees to be productive but the idea that “we need to get back to it” or “learn to live with this virus” means nothing to me or many of my colleagues when it comes to doing our jobs. I won’t put myself or my family at risk of catching COVID because it’s not my responsibility to ensure the railway has enough drivers to fulfill the timetable.

This wouldn’t be as big a problem if TOCs had proactively employed enough staff to run a service rather than scrape by using rest day working like they always have done and now being caught out.

Well if your a DI, then it kind of is. Your part of the process to make that happen, and a very important part too!

I can understand if someone has underlying health conditions then they might not wish to be part of a training bubble, but as has been said before, it’s voluntary so what’s the drama? Politely decline and that’s that.
 

320320

Member
Joined
5 Jun 2015
Messages
289
If both the trainee and the DI are regularly Covid tested and the trainee is happy to wear a face covering. Surely the risk is minimal. Driving instructors and their learner drivers are sitting in cars, both masked up and mixed households. No complaints from them.

Driving instructors are a poor comparison in all honesty. If they decide they don’t want to risk being in a confined space with a learner then they won’t earn any money, fortunately train drivers don’t have the same earning constraints.
 

kickin aff

Member
Joined
16 Oct 2015
Messages
164
Driving instructors are a poor comparison in all honesty. If they decide they don’t want to risk being in a confined space with a learner then they won’t earn any money, fortunately train drivers don’t have the same earning constraints.
What I was getting at is that we are now living in a changing landscape. There is no certainty of a vaccine soon or ever. Safety precautions have to be approved, agreed and life goes on.
 

320320

Member
Joined
5 Jun 2015
Messages
289
Trainees back September 28th.

Trainees could come back tomorrow, but there’s still going to be a shortage of DIs to teach them.

What’s the plan for those without a DI? There’s a shortage of space in bothies now, will they be in the house until there’s an available DI?
 

Driver1122

Member
Joined
14 Aug 2020
Messages
47
Location
Scotland
Trainees could come back tomorrow, but there’s still going to be a shortage of DIs to teach them.

What’s the plan for those without a DI? There’s a shortage of space in bothies now, will they be in the house until there’s an available DI?
Exactly what is going to happen in que system.
Also I’ve said I know 2/3 depots were all DIs have said there ok with it and ready to go. So they will be ok.
East seem more willing than the west.
 

Gedphones

Member
Joined
22 Feb 2019
Messages
74
^^ good post Holly blue! I concur.

Im beginning to wonder if hiall is just trolling to get a reaction from people. I’m not aware of any other similar postings by other people on any other TOC thread.
Don't think Hiall is trolling. Nobody knows anyone else's circumstances. Guy could have serious health issues. Whatever anyone thinks there's still a lot of fear out there. Rightly so. We're being told by multiple governments how deadly the virus is and many places are in various stages of lockdown, so to be glib about it could be very dangerous. If a DI doesn't want to take me or any other trainee out they have to be taken at face value. I get the impression many aren't taking them at face value.
All that being said I am willing to take the risk if a DI is too.
 

John Bishop

Member
Joined
15 Nov 2018
Messages
595
Location
Perth
Don't think Hiall is trolling. Nobody knows anyone else's circumstances. Guy could have serious health issues. Whatever anyone thinks there's still a lot of fear out there. Rightly so. We're being told by multiple governments how deadly the virus is and many places are in various stages of lockdown, so to be glib about it could be very dangerous. If a DI doesn't want to take me or any other trainee out they have to be taken at face value. I get the impression many aren't taking them at face value.
All that being said I am willing to take the risk if a DI is too.

Hi Gedphones.

I beg to differ re hial. A brief look at his previous posts has him stating categorically that until SG relaxes social distancing, there will be NO training taking place at least until 2021. He then says that DIs and DTMs have all refused so training won’t take place. Then he states that trainees can’t sit at home being paid then slyly hints that they may lose their job. He’s either trolling or really likes to wind up trainees. Either way its uncalled for and unnecessary!

I have no issue with any DI declining a trainee, especially those with health issues, I’m sure some will, but it appears that the majority around the network are happy to resume training again which is great.

With the proper protocols and safety measures in place, the risk of anything happening during training will be so minimal that the trip to the supermarket or cafe/ pub will pose a substantially higher risk to individuals.
 

380

Member
Joined
20 May 2019
Messages
33
Was quite surprised that a date was mentioned as I’ve not heard anything from our branch reps
 

theironroad

Established Member
Joined
21 Nov 2014
Messages
3,717
I can't comment on Scotrail, but certainly other TOCs do have DI and trainee's back in cab together after testing, daily temp checks and daily paper self declaration.

Aslef have already issued guidance on this and in fact have also issued guidance on return of route learners to cabs with non-instructors.

Obviously it's voluntary on both sides. (Hopefully in practice as well as theory!)
 

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