Scottish Electrification updates & discussion

[snowball]

Press release:

http://www.networkrailmediacentre.co.uk/news/rebuilt-philpstoun-and-park-farm-bridges-reopen

Park Farm and Old Philpstoun railway bridges in West Lothian have reopened following a five-month rebuild.

The road over rail bridges reopened on Friday (April 15) after engineers completed work to renew the structures and create extra height underneath for power cables to be installed as part of the Edinburgh Glasgow Improvement Programme (EGIP).

And one from last Friday:

http://www.networkrailmediacentre.co.uk/news/new-gbp-2m-drumgrew-road-bridge-opens

Drumgrew Road bridge reopened today (Friday, April 15) following the completion of an eight month long, £2m reconstruction of the structure.

A section of the B8048, which runs between Cumbernauld and Kirkintilloch, has been closed since August 2015 to enable the completion of the bridge over the railway.

 

[92002]

I doubt such a report would recommend building a tunnel and a tram train line through the city centre. These are two different strategies, the latter being part of a metro system.

A tunnel may be a way off but sufficient capacity can be created at Central to meet demand in the interim period.

The most likely place for a Tram/Train to leave the heavy rail system, without too much money spent would be at the Salkeld Street area.Where the railway runs parallel to the street.

The old Railway derelict offices are due at sometime to be converted to housing.

Once on street running they could serve both Queen Street and Central stations and have various stops in the City Centre, looping to a return to the Cathcart Circle.

They could of course carry on to an electrified Maryhill Branch, going back on heavy rail in the Hawthorn Street area and going back to street running around Anniesland.

All for the new Scottish Government planners.

 

[route:oxford]

When the SNP are elected.....

*If*.

Things aren't looking quite so definite as they were a few weeks ago...

Any idea why they've chosen a picture of Nicky suffering from RBF to put on the cover?

 

[clc]

*If*.

Things aren't looking quite so definite as they were a few weeks ago...

Any idea why they've chosen a picture of Nicky suffering from RBF to put on the cover?

Why, what's changed?

 

[Altnabreac]

*If*.

Things aren't looking quite so definite as they were a few weeks ago...

Any idea why they've chosen a picture of Nicky suffering from RBF to put on the cover?

That seems a little unlikely. The SNP currently have a 30 point lead in the opinion polls, have led in the last 50 polls and haven't been behind in a poll since August 2014.

Anything is possible but it doesn't seem very likely they won't get another majority. Even if they did lose a lot of support, given the divided opposition they would still be likely to be the largest party and a minority SNP government with Green support is the only other vaguely plausible outcome.

 

[route101]

Mainly four car with one six but all are crammed full from Central. All round not a great passenger experience, particularly given the lengthy dwell times of the 156s as people squeeze past others to get off. In the absence of electrification, 170s would be a much better option but that's not in anybody's plans.

I think East Kilbride needs to be viewed as separate from the rest of G&SW lines as it is suburban commuter rather than rural or semi-rural.

I thought it was mostly 2 car outwith peaks . If money was no object id loop a line round EK serving more areas .4 trains an Hour round the loop and back to Glasgow .

 

[68000]

*If*.

*When*

 

[PaxVobiscum]

Any idea why they've chosen a picture of Nicky suffering from RBF to put on the cover?

I had to Google that abbreviation.

 

[snowball]

So did I.

 

[HSTEd]

The SNP will win another majority - its almost inevitable.

I can't see them polling below the 44% that got them the last one.
Unless RISE splits the vote ridiculously but I doubt it somehow.

 

[clc]

Well my view is different.

Tram - train creates at most 6 spare hourly all day train paths into Central, 4 only if you decide Neilston needs to stay as heavy rail.

At the same time it is a reduction in capacity at peak times as 120m 6 car trains are replaced by at most a 60m long double tram. So in the peak 8-9am arrival at Central you need to run a 24 double trams per hour service to break even on capacity. That's possible of course but it's hard to get a huge uplift in capacity beyond there.

Equally the reduction in quality perception from the new AT300s with toilets, phone charging sockets and 2+2 seating to a minimal seating tram-train with standing passengers for 30 min + journeys would not be a positive one in the public perception, especially given the current political perception of trams in Scotland. It just won't happen.

.

I'm hoping the new rolling stock will increase passenger numbers, especially on the Neilston line where more of the well heeled residents of Williamwood, Giffnock, Muirend and Whitecraigs might be tempted to leave their BMWs at home.

 

[IanXC]

Can I remind members that this is the Scottish Electrification thread and that the topic is ongoing works underway. Discussion of the Glasgow Terminal Capacity report and the upcoming election are off topic and should be posted in their own threads.

Thanks

 

[Altnabreac]

Can I remind members that this is the Scottish Electrification thread and that the topic is ongoing works underway. Discussion of the Glasgow Terminal Capacity report and the upcoming election are off topic and should be posted in their own threads.

Thanks

Good reminder

Had a wee look at Overbridges for East Kilbride and Barrhead to get an idea of how much structures work might be needed.

I came up with about 37 structures to look at but I think less than 10 road bridges are going to need major work so not too onerous. The big majority of structures are in the East Kilbride - Busby Junction section and it looks like Barrhead - Busby junction would be a pretty easy add on without much structures work needing doing at all so I think it would be logical to do that at the same time as East Kilbride.

Barrhead - Busby junction

Nitshill Station footbridge
Priesthill and Darnley station footbridge
M77 overbridge
Kennishead Road overbridge
Kennishead Road old bridge used for footpath
Kennishead Station footbridge

East Kilbride - Busby junction

Strathfillan Road overbridge
Kirktonholme Road overbridge
Queensway overbridge
Tennant Avenue footbridge
Redwood Drive disused overbridge
Redwood Drive overbridge
Millbrae accommodation overbridge
A726 overbridge
*Thornton Road overbridge
Thornton Farm accommodation overbridge
*Peel Road overbridge
*Westerton Lane overbridge
Busby Station footbridge
Strawhill Road overbridge
Strawhill Road footbridge
Clarkston Station footbridge
Clarkston Toll footbridge
*Stamperland Crescent overbridge
Church Road overbridge
Giffnock Station footbridge
Fenwick Road overbridge
Burnfield Road overbridge
Thornliebank Road footbridge
Thornliebank Road overbridge

Busby Junction - Strathbungo

Cartcraigs Road old road bridge used for footpath
Cathcart Circle rail overbridge
Minard Road overbridge
Moray Place footbridge
*Nithsdale Road overbridge

Strathbungo - Muirhouse junction

Pollokshaws Road overbridge
Victoria Road overbridge

* indicates my best guess of road overbridges which would need major work.

 

[Southsider]

I'm hoping the new rolling stock will increase passenger numbers, especially on the Neilston line where more of the well heeled residents of Williamwood, Giffnock, Muirend and Whitecraigs might be tempted to leave their BMWs at home.

The problem at peak times is lack of capacity on the trains, hopefully there will be enough new trains for more six car working. In the meantime a guaranteed seat in the Beemer wins!

 

[Altnabreac]

I don't think Pollokshaws Road and Victoria Road fall into the scope of this work.

Of course you wouldn't need to electrify Larkfield Junction - Strathbungo in order to make the basic East Kilbride electrification work but judging by past schemes this infill would probably be done at the same time to improve flexibility and give options for ECS workings etc.

In the same way Gartsherrie South junction - Gartcosh junction and Langloan South - Coatbridge junction were both wired under EGIP despite having no scheduled electric services.

If either of the overbridges needed expensive work though then it might not happen. If it's just 1/2 mile of wiring then it probably will be done at same time.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Had a wee look at Overbridges for East Kilbride and Barrhead to get an idea of how much structures work might be needed.

Barrhead - Busby junction

M77 overbridge

Seriously - if so this is bordering on insane. I thought all bridges etc in connection with railways in the last 60 years have been built with adequate clearance etc. As this is a motorway and thus by definition built after 1959, surely it would have been built with the future in mind? :cry:

 

[najaB]

Seriously - if so this is bordering on insane. I thought all bridges etc in connection with railways in the last 60 years have been built with adequate clearance etc. As this is a motorway and thus by definition built after 1959, surely it would have been built with the future in mind? :cry:

I don't think Altnabreac included that one as needing major work. Looking at the lie of the land from Google Street View, I'd be surprised if it did.

 

[Altnabreac]

I don't think Altnabreac included that one as needing major work. Looking at the lie of the land from Google Street View, I'd be surprised if it did.

No indeed. Hopefully that one (and probably the majority of these structures) should be broadly fine. There will probably still be minor work needed around solid parapets or parapet height etc that comes from electrification even if the clearance is fine, this adds costs to a scheme which is why I listed all overbridges.

Encouragingly the newish A726 overbridge looks to be wide enough for a redoubled formation as well which isn't necessarily always the case with newer bridges. See the A96 at Gollanfield for an example where this is not the case.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

No indeed. Hopefully that one (and probably the majority of these structures) should be broadly fine. There will probably still be minor work needed around solid parapets or parapet height etc that comes from electrification even if the clearance is fine, this adds costs to a scheme which is why I listed all overbridges.

Encouragingly the newish A726 overbridge looks to be wide enough for a redoubled formation as well which isn't necessarily always the case with newer bridges. See the A96 at Gollanfield for an example where this is not the case.

OK thanks for the further explanation- that makes sense.
(OT - one of my uncles was born in Glasgow.)

 

[QueensCurve]

I passed under the M80 (A80 when I last passed that way) Bonnybridge viaduct yesterday on a brief visit to Comrie owin to a family berievement.

The gantries were up on the viaduct and OHLE supports appeared to be up on the adjoining stretches. No piccies as I was driving.

it was my first time for a wee bitty and the first time I had seen the wires up on the M77 bridge.

Yesterday was the first day I even knew that there was an M77!

 

[Altnabreac]

Shotts Line twitter feed has some good shots of work underway on structures there: https://twitter.com/shottslineelec

Addiewell Bridge is ready to reopen.

A706 at Breich looks to be structurally complete with utilities and roadways left to reinstate.

Brucefield in Livingston has abutments ready for new span.

Three farm accommodation bridges coming on well at Starryshaw:

Fauldhouse:

and Blackmires:

Along with the work at Benhar Road in Shotts it looks like the vast majority of structures work for the Shotts line will be complete by the end of 2016, giving plenty of time for foundations and wiring over the next few years.

Biggest job yet to start is the A71 overbridge at West Calder that is due to be tackled next year. I don't think they've made a final decision on whether it's better to rebuild the bridge (hugely disruptive for road traffic) or lower the track (probably involves rebuilding West Calder station so not an easy option).

 

[matchmaker]

I passed under the M80 (A80 when I last passed that way)Bonnybridge viaduct yesterday on a brief visit to Comrie owin to a family berievement.

The gantries were up on the viaduct and OHLE supports appeared to be up on the adjoining stretches. No piccies as I was driving.

it was my first time for a wee bitty and the first time I had seen the wires up on the M77 bridge.

Yesterday was the first day I even knew that there was an M77!

Castlecary Viaduct!

 

[clc]

The problem at peak times is lack of capacity on the trains, hopefully there will be enough new trains for more six car working. In the meantime a guaranteed seat in the Beemer wins!

I think they'll have to put on more carriages. The introduction of AT300s is a huge uplift in quality over the current 314s so I'd be surprised if it didnt lead to an increase in patronage. There's also the proposed new Barrhead South station to consider, which now has guaranteed funding through the City Deal.

 

[snowball]

it was my first time for a wee bitty and the first time I had seen the wires up on the M77 bridge.

Yesterday was the first day I even knew that there was an M77!

Do you perhaps mean M73? The M77 goes south-west from Glasgow (to Kilmarnock, on the way to Ayr) and I don't think it goes under any railways. The M73 runs north-south, passing east of Glasgow, and links the M74, M8/A8, and M80.

 

[Mordac]

This is the first I've heard of any plans to scrap the 314s. Can anyone point me to some details?

 

[absolutelymilk]

I think they'll have to put on more carriages. The introduction of AT300s is a huge uplift in quality over the current 314s so I'd be surprised if it didnt lead to an increase in patronage. There's also the proposed new Barrhead South station to consider, which now has guaranteed funding through the City Deal.

I presume you meant the AT200s (Class 385)? But yes they will replace 314s on the Cathcart Circle line according to this
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-35153722

 

[Altnabreac]

This is the first I've heard of any plans to scrap the 314s. Can anyone point me to some details?

Horse's mouth is the franchise agreement:
http://www.transport.gov.scot/syste...Redacted Franchise Agreement - CU version.pdf

The rolling stock table on Page 21 shows that of the 16 Class 314s only 3 will still be on lease in December 2018 with all 3 gone by December 2019.

Now of course this only confirms that Scotrail won't be using them after that point, not a guarantee that they will be scrapped. But given their age, and the work needed for TSI compliance it seems unlikely anyone else will take them on except possibly for a short term lease in 2018/19.

 

[gsnedders]

Now of course this only confirms that Scotrail won't be using them after that point, not a guarantee that they will be scrapped. But given their age, and the work needed for TSI compliance it seems unlikely anyone else will take them on except possibly for a short term lease in 2018/19.

Someone hiring them while undertaking work for TSI compliance of their own stock seems plausible, at least.

 

[clc]

At the same time it is a reduction in capacity at peak times as 120m 6 car trains are replaced by at most a 60m long double tram. So in the peak 8-9am arrival at Central you need to run a 24 double trams per hour service to break even on capacity. That's possible of course but it's hard to get a huge uplift in capacity beyond there.

That's based on 314s isnt it? AT200 carriages are longer, making the capacity differential between heavy rail and tram trains even greater.

 

[Altnabreac]

That's based on 314s isnt it? AT200 carriages are longer, making the capacity differential between heavy rail and tram trains even greater.

Yes total capacity would be higher on an AT200. Although 314s being 3+2 means the seat differential between a tram and a 6 car AT200 is probably less than to a 314.