The fact that the recent timetable update means that the Ferry actually gets a semi-decent service now has made a difference.I think it helps because the Bus fare from the ferry is more than the rail fare (£1.50 single vs £1.65).
The fact that the recent timetable update means that the Ferry actually gets a semi-decent service now has made a difference.I think it helps because the Bus fare from the ferry is more than the rail fare (£1.50 single vs £1.65).
Would anyone care to speculate on what electrification schemes the Industry Plan due in September will recommend for delivery in CP6?
We know Fife Circle appears to have fallen down the queue so the most likely candidates seem to be:-
Dunblane-Perth
Perth-Dundee
East Kilbride
Barrhead
Kilmarnock
Anniesland via Maryhill
City Union Line
However these wouldn't add up to anything like 500 single track kilometres, which the Scottish Government's rolling programme of electrification would be expected to deliver over 5 years.
Any thoughts?
Would anyone care to speculate on what electrification schemes the Industry Plan due in September will recommend for delivery in CP6?
We know Fife Circle appears to have fallen down the queue so the most likely candidates seem to be:-
Dunblane-Perth
Perth-Dundee
East Kilbride
Barrhead
Kilmarnock
Anniesland via Maryhill
City Union Line
However these wouldn't add up to anything like 500 single track kilometres, which the Scottish Government's rolling programme of electrification would be expected to deliver over 5 years.
Any thoughts?
That sounds about right although I suspect the City Union Line won't be included.
I wonder if Kilmarnock might drop behind Dundee - Aberdeen? The political benefits of early wiring to the North East might be tempting.
Agree that Barassie - Killie will be done at same time as Barrhead - Killie.
Surely from an operational perspective it makes more sense to wire the Glasgow suburban and local routes out to Kilmarnock and operate those with a follow on order of 385's, before pushing on to Dundee and Aberdeen, especially as refurbished HST's will be operating Glasgow - Aberdeen in a few years time.
I don't think the Maryhill line will be wired any time too, same with the City Union line.
EK needs it, that plus second EK platform & redoubling Busby will be the one to go for.
North Suburban Electrification
Purpose
To allow trains operating on Northern Suburban line from Queen Street High Level to have comparable performance characteristics and consistent train formations with other services using this terminal station. This offers opportunities to construct a more efficient timetable to further optimise platform occupancy and rolling stock utilisation and provide more resilient performance.
It also provides an electrified diversionary route for Glasgow Queen Street services to the low level platforms via Partick and Springburn.
Technical Description
This option proposes approximately five miles of electrification of the Maryhill line from Cowlairs junctions to Westerton junction including the Anniesland single line.
Indicative Costs
££ (£50m-£100m)
Strategic Link
This option contributes to making best use of Queen Street High Level, and minimising the scope and costs of future work to improve Queen Street Tunnel capacity and the number / length of platforms in the station.
Prioritisation Assessment
Funder aspiration as part of the Strategic Transport Projects Review Rolling Programme of Electrification.
Glasgow Suburban routes definitely make sense out to Barrhead and Maryhill. Problem with Kilmarnock is half the services extend to Cumnock, Dumfries or Stranraer none of which are getting wired anytime soon. That undermines the case for wiring Killie as will only be running 1tph or so EMU.
I wonder if Kilmarnock might drop behind Dundee - Aberdeen? The political benefits of early wiring to the North East might be tempting.
Surely from an operational perspective it makes more sense to wire the Glasgow suburban and local routes out to Kilmarnock and operate those with a follow on order of 385's, before pushing on to Dundee and Aberdeen, especially as refurbished HST's will be operating Glasgow - Aberdeen in a few years time.
Won't Dundee-Aberdeen wait until after the doubling of Usan-Montrose?
The timescale for doubling Usan-Montrose is 5-10 years so in theory it could happen in CP6 with electrification proceeding at the same time.
Bi Mode trains for Cumnock, Stranraer and Dumfries? More than 1tph using the wires therefore.
Additionally I doubt wiring Maryhil would require a feeder station for its electrification so could be considered infill - same with the City Union. I think its been mentioned that feeder stations tend to be the expensive bit when it comes to electrification.
Doubt it. Bi-mode might arrive at some point but at the moment the only bi-mode train in the UK is a 5 coach Intercity train that seats 300 people. That's not exactly the ideal spec for Dumfries or Stranraer.
Equally the rolling stock strategy for Scotrail is pretty much fixed until 2025. If a bit more wiring happens then I'm sure they can order a few more AT200s but I doubt Abellio will be keen on taking on a whole new train class purely to serve rural Ayrshire.
I'd think it more likely that the post 2025 Scotrail franchise might take on bi-modes but probably to serve Inverness once HSTs need withdrawn after 2025.
With regards the Ayrshire trains I think it's more likely that Stranraer trains get cut back at Ayr and an Ayr - Kilmarnock - Glasgow service runs as an EMU.
I am surprised that HSTs would start to be withdrawn so soon after 2025. I thought that to get a decent return on the cost of modifying them to make them DDA compliant they would be in service on Scotrail for another 10 to 15 years,* so would start to be withdrawn around 2028-2033 which is when the wires were originally going to reach Aberdeen at the end of CP8.
*There should be plenty of spare parts knocking around in a few years as no other franchise has proposed retaining HST post 2020 (any EMT sets post 2020 will still be gone by 2023).
Agree entirely with that 10-15 year timescale for usage of HSTs in Scotland.
2028 is a reasonable timescale to get wires to Aberdeen but Perth - Inverness and Aberdeen - Inverness might be tricky to complete by 2033 so bi-modes may still be required here. More likely than on Dumfries services I suspect.
Equally if they can keep the HSTs going until the wires reach Inverness then it's ideal to move straight to an electric Intercity product.
The spare parts argument is a bit of a fallacy - yes, there's going to be more motors and bogies, alternators, compressors and other bits floating around, but they all still need to be refurbished or overhauled, certified for use and tested, that all costs money and it all needs competent, certified people to undertake the work.
I'd guess by 2030-2035, it'll be pretty difficult to keep HST power cars running, in a similar vain to the difficulties operators have in keeping Class 37 and Class 47 locomotives running - all do-able, but long lead times on parts and work, which could start to keep stock out of service for lengthy periods.
Bi Mode trains for Cumnock, Stranraer and Dumfries? More than 1tph using the wires therefore.
Additionally I doubt wiring Maryhil would require a feeder station for its electrification so could be considered infill - same with the City Union. I think its been mentioned that feeder stations tend to be the expensive bit when it comes to electrification.
Given that bi-modes are already in testing for use on UK mainlines, I don't think it's "too soon".Bi-mode would make so much sense and offer huge journey opportunities. The only problem is that in the UK it is still untried technology (though has been used in France for ages) that it is probably a bit too soon.
The spare parts argument is a bit of a fallacy - yes, there's going to be more motors and bogies, alternators, compressors and other bits floating around, but they all still need to be refurbished or overhauled, certified for use and tested, that all costs money and it all needs competent, certified people to undertake the work.
I'd guess by 2030-2035, it'll be pretty difficult to keep HST power cars running, in a similar vain to the difficulties operators have in keeping Class 37 and Class 47 locomotives running - all do-able, but long lead times on parts and work, which could start to keep stock out of service for lengthy periods.
How feasible would it be to keep the refurbished coaches and run them with different locos?
Alternatively, equip locos with the gubbins to supply 450VAC from their 1000VDC generators.They'd presumably need converted to 1000V DC power supply, given they're currently all using the HST-only 415V AC supply. It's doable, but whether it's economically worthwhile relative to new-build stock is a separate question
Alternatively, equip locos with the gubbins to supply 450VAC from their 1000VDC generators.
What kind of amperage are we talking? Solid-state inverters have come along leaps and bounds in the last 20 years due to the boom in solar power.It's not a small or easy fix, given the current draw that's involved. The easiest option is fitting a generator engine and alternator into a DVT, as per the Chiltern operation (Western region loco hauled HST stock in the olden days used a generator van, btw).
What kind of amperage are we talking? Solid-state inverters have come along leaps and bounds in the last 20 years due to the boom in solar power.
Philip Phlopp, very off-topic I know, but do you have a Twitter account/blog/similar on which you post? You are clearly very knowledgeable about railway matters and I would love to learn more about these sort of topics
That kind of power level isn't far off what you can do with off-the-shelf technology.415V 500kW equates to around 1200A, 1000V 500kW is 500A, and it needs to be three phased AC too.