Service Disruption: Manchester Victoria closed following Arena incident

[LNW-GW Joint]

It's quite possible Network Rail has not yet been given permission to even inspect its property, let alone move any trains.
The area is getting the full force of the state security apparatus.
The station can't be fully used anyway until the bridge (which gives access to the Arena as well as P4-6) is cleared for public access.
Staff who work at Victoria will also be denied access until the police allow it.
There will undoubtedly be top-level contact between NR, BTP and GMP.
The special unit at DfT/Home Office which deals with transport security (Transec) will also be involved.

 

[YorkshireBear]

Wow, such animosity.

To those castigating me for daring to enquire why the station needs to be closed for so long, did it not occur to you that:

- not everyone knows that, apparently, the concert venue and the station are the same building (thanks to Chrism20 for the info in his post)

- nor that the station was used as a triage area (thanks to YorkshireBear for that)?

To be fair mine was not aimed at you. But about non stop trains throughout. Which i assumed enough knowledge over and above yours as they stated local service patterns.

The actual bomb was above the platforms themselves.

 

[tsr]

Considering that the entire area around Man Vic is a crime scene, why would anyone in their right mind decide to send trains through non stop - it'll contaminate the area plus I don't think anyone would want to see blood stains and dead bodies on the platform.

I'd be surprised if there are any deceased people on the platform at this point after the event. I should imagine all substantial remains which were initially moved from the crime scene have since made their way to mortuaries or holding facilities where appropriate. One of the primary concerns of local authorities and NHS Trusts in the event of such incidents is to prepare an area for the deceased to be respectfully held, the size and location being decided with casualty numbers and suchlike in mind - and this has to be set up very, very quickly, due to the implications of how fast bodies may need to be recovered to allow investigation work. You'd be surprised just how quickly this process is initiated - we're talking minutes after the police are made aware of what's happened.

However, all that being said, there may still be visible signs of the incident, and you can't have the public trampling all over any vital clues which could have been left by the suspect(s). Additionally, if the station electronics such as CCTV can't be used, the operator may not wish to allow the public access.

Finally, we also have to consider that the forensics teams and cleaners may be working on or near the line at times. Any form of train service may then be unsustainable. If a limited service is advertised but then removed, you risk crowds forming where they are least able to be handled.

suspicious bag on platform 1 at Kings Cross police attending all services delayed

Most trains on the move now, apparently. Overhead line damage at Dunbar does mean that there is still disruption at the station.

 

[Wivenswold]

It is not anticipated at this early stage that the device has caused any structural damage aside from a few smashed windows. So no additional repairs should be needed to the station and infrastructure below. I'm on this case but can't say why or how.

However, I wouldn't rule out demolition of the separate arena ticket office area even though it's structurally safe to, understandably, remove visual reminders for victims and others affected. So there could be further works disruption at Vic soon.

 

[Chester1]

Not according to everything I have seen. They may be running through empty to set up service on the other side but certainly not in service.

I think he meant that he thought it would be OK for trams to run through without stopping, not that they actually are.

It is an entirely plausible option once the station is no longer a crime scene but before NR have sufficient time to do repair work to the heavy rail part of the station. It would mean a normal timetable could be run across the whole Metrolink network.

Shudehill bus station reopened today but the tram stop remains closed. This is probably due to lack of access to a turn back facility. Running Ashton to Shudehill would free up considerable capacity on the services running today. Eccles and Altrincham trams were fuller than ussual from what I saw today so it would be better to cut them back to Piccadilly. Currently there are only 20tph running through Cornbrook to Piccadilly instead of 20tph + 10tph on 2CC and 5tph Bury to Piccadilly

 

[61653 HTAFC]

It is not anticipated at this early stage that the device has caused any structural damage aside from a few smashed windows. So no additional repairs should be needed to the station and infrastructure below. I'm on this case but can't say why or how.

However, I wouldn't rule out demolition of the separate arena ticket office area even though it's structurally safe to, understandably, remove visual reminders for victims and others affected. So there could be further works disruption at Vic soon.

In the past I've considered how the arrangement at MCV/Manchester Arena might pose a problem in the event of an incident, be it terrorism or simply a fire in the Arena. In fact when news of the attack first broke, I was expecting that some of the injuries might be the result of panic leading to a crush. Though this appears not to be the case.

 

[Trackman]

For some reason they are calling at Clifton as well. This station has its best service for years. Many also calling at additional stations between Wigan and Southport so will lose a lot of time. Hence not going to airport.

I was wondering about Clifton.
Just had a look on RT trains, it gives conflicting information from the CIS's

 

[NorthernSpirit]

I think he meant that he thought it would be OK for trams to run through without stopping, not that they actually are.

This is what I thought, as the tram stop is further away from the blast but because its bordering a crime scene, Metrolink woudn't be able to stop there.

 

[Chester1]

This is what I thought, as the tram stop is further away from the blast but because its bordering a crime scene, Metrolink woudn't be able to stop there.

The size of the cordoned off area is still huge as demonstrated by the closure of Exchange Square stop. There is a turn back facility that would enable both services from East Didsbury to terminate there which would return services to normal capacity excluding Piccadilly Gardens to Bury and Exchange Square to Oldham / Rochdale. The police must have decided that even if the square was cordened off the stop is too close to the Arena and because they are unstandably reluctant to allow the Arndale Centre to reopen. Allowing trams to run empty past St Peters Square and turn back at Exchange Square might be an option to add capacity. If Victoria has not reopened by Tuesday the whole public transport system in Manchester will struggle, there would not be sufficient capacity once people return to their normal routines.

 

[Class 170101]

Don't forget its half term next week so loadings may be less.

 

[gavin]

Victoria will be closed again tomorrow

"Manchester Victoria will remain closed tomorrow, Thursday 25 May, and may have to remain closed for several days. The same level of service as described in the travel advice below is expected to be in place on Thursday 25 May. Please continue to check this page for further updates.

Trains will not run to / from and through Manchester Victoria. Trains will be diverted, cancelled or start / terminate at alternative stations.

You are advised to AVOID the Manchester Victoria / Manchester Arena area. Please follow instructions from staff and emergency services.

Advice for Northern customers:

Northern will operate services on the following routes to replace those which would normally call at Manchester Victoria:

Leeds – Manchester Victoria: Trains will start and terminate at Rochdale. A replacement bus service will run between Rochdale and Manchester Piccadilly calling at all intermediate stations.
Huddersfield – Manchester Victoria: Trains will start and terminate at Stalybridge. A replacement bus service will run between Stalybridge and Manchester Piccadilly calling at Ashton-under-Lyne.
Liverpool Lime Street – Manchester Victoria: Trains will start and terminate at Manchester Oxford Road.
Liverpool Lime Street – Manchester Airport: A reduced service will run on this route.
Southport – Manchester Airport: These services will start and terminate at Manchester Piccadilly and run to Southport via Bolton, calling additionally at all stations between Bolton and Manchester Piccadilly.
Kirkby – Manchester Victoria: Trains will run between Wigan Wallgate and Kirkby only.
Wigan Wallgate - Manchester Victoria: Trains will start and terminate at Salford Central.
Blackpool North – Hazel Grove: The majority of these through services are cancelled.
Blackpool North – Manchester Victoria: Trains will start and terminate at Manchester Oxford Road.
Blackpool North – Manchester Airport: A reduced service will run on this route.
Clitheroe – Manchester Victoria: Trains will run between Clitheroe and Bolton only."

 

[Wivenswold]

In the past I've considered how the arrangement at MCV/Manchester Arena might pose a problem in the event of an incident, be it terrorism or simply a fire in the Arena. In fact when news of the attack first broke, I was expecting that some of the injuries might be the result of panic leading to a crush. Though this appears not to be the case.

Couldn't agree more, walking around it even in broad daylight is confusing and, in some of the escape routes, extremely confined. I haven't seen a staircase like the one on Hunts Bank since the days of crumbling football terraces.

Apologies for going a little off message and using the cold language of someone who is used to assessing horrific events.

 

[Crossover]

With regards to Metrolink, as far as I am aware, nothing is running through at all between Piccadilly Gardens and Queens Road/Central Park (I'm not sure if ECS's can run from Central Park to somewhere near Victoria to reverse to go back to depot, or if they are marooned too) or 2CC. Last I heard there was a double set stranded in the Victoria bound platform at Shudehill which, by all accounts, can not run bang road to release it to go elsewhere

As another aspect why trains (and trams) couldn't run through the station (aside from it still being a Crime Scene) non-stop is that it doesn't prevent someone trying to leave a service via nefarious means (such as pulling the emergency door release)

 

[Bletchleyite]

they are unstandably reluctant to allow the Arndale Centre to reopen

It has, hasn't it? Was only closed for a couple of hours.

 

[Bungle965]

With regards to Metrolink, as far as I am aware, nothing is running through at all between Piccadilly Gardens and Queens Road/Central Park (I'm not sure if ECS's can run from Central Park to somewhere near Victoria to reverse to go back to depot, or if they are marooned too) or 2CC. Last I heard there was a double set stranded in the Victoria bound platform at Shudehill which, by all accounts, can not run bang road to release it to go elsewhere

As another aspect why trains (and trams) couldn't run through the station (aside from it still being a Crime Scene) non-stop is that it doesn't prevent someone trying to leave a service via nefarious means (such as pulling the emergency door release)

There is depot access just after Monsall (one station after Central Park) so they are not marooned.
The double set that you are referring to is actually two singles in the Victoria bound platform at Shudehill both of which were still there this evening with a couple of the Palladium security people keeping watch of them.
Sam

 

[Crossover]

There is depot access just after Monsall (one station after Central Park) so they are not marooned.
The double set that you are referring to is actually two singles in the Victoria bound platform at Shudehill both of which were still there this evening with a couple of the Palladium security people keeping watch of them.
Sam

Quite right - I forgot about the link near Monsall!

 

[edwin_m]

I imagine the bomb will have sent fragments over a wide area, and some of these might have been kicked further by the rush of people afterwards. The security services will want to retrieve as many of these as possible as they could carry critical forensic evidence, so anywhere they might have got to will be cordoned off. I imagine a fingertip search through the ballast etc in the platforms would be very time-consuming, especially as small pieces might have dropped down between the stones.

 

[gimmea50anyday]

Given the location of the explosion itself is relatively contained, i cant see a fingertip search of the ballast yoelding anything tbh

 

[Bantamzen]

As others have said, the station will be closed until the Police have completely finished their forensic investigations of the site and surroundings. It may well be that the attacker passed through Victoria on his way to the scene of the attack, and it is equally possible that he may have been accompanied by someone into the area so the entire place will need to be swept with a fine tooth comb. They are not going to give NR a timescale, when the officers are satisfied the job is done they will hand back the station to NR so that they can undertake site surveys for any structural damage.

I think it is safe to say that the disruption is likely to go into the weekend and maybe next week, and anyone with plans to travel through Manchester needs to plan accordingly until at least after the bank holiday.

 

[xfield]

I work in an office overlooking Victoria and confirm there has been no movement in or out since the bombing. Several trains stand at the platforms, and no trams have run. Some trams have been stood at shudehill for days now. There must also be a lot of disruption to freight, I normally see several run through Victoria daily. The multistorey for the arena is also full of cars, so many have not been allowed to return to take them either - trinity way past the arena was still closed yesterday. I suppose some owners will never be able to return to collect their cars.

 

[gimmea50anyday]

Freight being diverted through piccadilly, adding to the congestion there already. TPE are having a hard time keeping the diverted newcastles as well as the usual LIV-SCA traffic on schedule.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Freight being diverted through piccadilly, adding to the congestion there already. TPE are having a hard time keeping the diverted newcastles as well as the usual LIV-SCA traffic on schedule.

Have they considered portion working them to York?

 

[northwichcat]

Metrolink have suspended services to MediaCity and there are severe delays on Ashton services due to a police incident at Droylsden. I don't know if it's connected to the terriost attack or not.

 

[northwichcat]

Have they considered portion working them to York?

Newcastle-Liverpool services are terminating at Piccadilly and leave York half an hour after Scarborough-Liverpool services so portion working the two wouldn't work, especially considering 6 cars would cause issues on the CLC.

Portion working Newcastle and Hull services would be a more sensible option but then it would depend on whether they could attach and detach units at Leeds without affecting other services.

 

[Bantamzen]

Newcastle-Liverpool services are terminating at Piccadilly and leave York half an hour after Scarborough-Liverpool services so portion working the two wouldn't work, especially considering 6 cars would cause issues on the CLC.

Portion working Newcastle and Hull services would be a more sensible option but then it would depend on whether they could attach and detach units at Leeds without affecting other services.

They did portion work the Liverpool services over Easter, but I don't know if they could re-path the Newcastles from York on normal working days. Plus as you say, they have to use SDO on the CLC which for some services added extra delays which would cause more problems through Manchester.

 

[gimmea50anyday]

Portion working Newcastle and Hull services would be a more sensible option but then it would depend on whether they could attach and detach units at Leeds without affecting other services.

Too much like common sense. Besides, waiting the hull arrival service for newcastle arrival and banging them together would make the hulls service departure from Picc late. Plus the sets would swap around at Leeds so the newcastle diagrams would end up in Hull and vice versa. At leeds the hull arrival would be at front for journey to Man Picc but departing Man Picc the hull departure would have to be on the front. This is the rear unit at Leeds that came down from Newcastle

Ill put it to them tho

 

[northwichcat]

They did portion work the Liverpool services over Easter, but I don't know if they could re-path the Newcastles from York on normal working days. Plus as you say, they have to use SDO on the CLC which for some services added extra delays which would cause more problems through Manchester.

That was a special revised timetable for the engineering works which involved just 2tph between Manchester and York - one being a portion working for both Middlesbrough and Newcastle and the other terminating there. Both Scarborough and Hull were only served by shuttle services.

AFAIK the 185s don't have SDO - they weren't built with it but are set to be fitted with it. What they do have is unit deselect so the doors can be released on the front or rear portions only.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It's not unreasonable for people to ask when normal service is expected to resume but in the circumstances people shouldn't be making a big fuss about the inconvenience caused by the station being closed.

I don't believe they are.

 

[northwichcat]

I don't believe they are.

I wasn't meaning people were. I was trying to say where I consider the line between reasonable and unreasonable to be.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I wasn't meaning people were. I was trying to say where I consider the line between reasonable and unreasonable to be.

Yes, I agree with your definition. OK to ask about when it might be etc to aid journey planning, not OK to moan about it.