Services that were withdrawn that should be reinstated

[Eagle]

Not sure that the bean counters would approve of 140 m.p.h. units pootling along the Marshlink route with a dozen passengers.

Assuming of course they've not balked at the cost of completely remodelling Ashford station... :roll:

 

[JamesRowden]

Assuming of course they've not balked at the cost of completely remodelling Ashford station... :roll:

Or a chord between HS1 and the Maidstone East Line north of Ashford.

 

[cle]

Or a chord between HS1 and the Maidstone East Line north of Ashford.

Good idea.

I wonder - would Hastings vis Ashford on a 395 be much quicker than via Tunbridge Wells?

It could be a whole new riviera... Rye would boom, I imagine.

 

[yorksrob]

Having done quite a few fast runs down the classic Hastings mainline (in DEMU stock of course ) I too find it difficult to believe that a London run via the Marshlink could be much quicker, even with HS 1.

Conversely, as far as Ashford remodelling is concerned, its been done once in my lifetime, not to mention thirty years previously, so I wouldn't rule it out !

 

[mister-sparky]

Wasn't there proposals to run 395's to Eastbourne via Marshlink?

 

[JamesRowden]

Good idea.

I wonder - would Hastings vis Ashford on a 395 be much quicker than via Tunbridge Wells?

It could be a whole new riviera... Rye would boom, I imagine.

St Pancras - Ashford 37mins
Ashford (waiting in station) 1min
Ashford - Hastings 35mins (using data from Network Rail route specifications based upon a predicted line upgrade to 75mph and stops at Ham Street, Appledore and Rye with 171s)

St Pancras - Hastings 73 mins (the time saving of 395s rather than 171s and potentially not stopping at Ham Street and Appledore means that this value in reality would be smaller)

London Bridge - Hastings 83/95 mins
Charing Cross - Hastings 91/103 mins

I would have a guess that a 395 would do Ashford to Hastings in 28 mins with the 75 mph speed limit and only stopping at Rye. That would mean a 68mins journey from St Pancras to Hastings. The line looks straight enough to have a higher line speed.

However, many of these benefits could be produced by upgrading the Marshlink (including double tracking and electrification) and providing a 4 minute connection at Ashford. The connection could be guaranteed by having one train wait for the other if it is late. The Marshlink service could then be advertised as 'Ashford Int (for London St Pancras)' when the service is in Bexhill and to the east of Bexhill. It would benefit Bexhill more than Hastings, reducing London journey times from 110mins to 77mins. A stopper could run between Eastbourne/Hastings and Ashford to provide the small stops along the line a service and to provide 2tph for London form Hastings with a change at Ashford.

There is also the possiblity of bringing back proper express services between Hastings and Charing Cross via Tunbridge Wells. The Kent RUS reccomends running all peak services between Charing Cross and Hastings fast between London Bridge and High Brooms with the train dividing at Tunbridge Wells into a fast and and a slow service. It also suggests that this style of service could run all day. Though it does note the possible adverse effects on East Coastway services. The RUS assumed that the power supply between Tunbridge Wells and Hastings could not handle 12-car trains. However, a limited number are now running in the peak. I also think that there needs to be a direct service between Hastings and Tonbridge. I would suggest altering the idea by running the following services instead:

• Service 1
  • Charing Cross
  • Waterloo East
  • London Bridge
  • High Brooms
  • Tunbridge Wells
  • Frant
  • Wadhurst
  • Stonegate
  • Etchingham
  • Robertsbridge
  • Battle
  • Crowhurst
  • West St Leonards
  • St Leonards Warrior Square
  • Hastings
• Service 2
  • Charing Cross
  • Waterloo East
  • London Bridge
  • Tonbridge
  • Tunbridge Wells (Train Divides)
    • Front
      • Battle
      • St Leonards Warrior Square
      • Hastings
    • Rear
      • Frant
      • Wadhurst
      • Stonegate
      • Etchingham
      • Robertsbridge
      • Battle
      • Crowhurst
      • West St Leonards
      • St Leonards Warrior Square
      • Hastings

This would provide 2tph to all stations on the Hastings line. It would also mean that Battle, St Leonards Warrior Square and Hastings would have two fairly fast trains per hour to London.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
One would notice that my 'service 2' is very similar to what the 'Hastings Diesels' ran.

 

[Eagle]

Conversely, as far as Ashford remodelling is concerned, its been done once in my lifetime, not to mention thirty years previously, so I wouldn't rule it out !

Wouldn't the fact it was remodelled recently make it less likely to be remodelled in the future?

Anyway it's obviously not going to happen for the sake of a single domestic HS1 service, which serves Hastings (with no appreciable time saving over the current route) and a number of other small towns, at the expense of paths on HS1 whilst providing no real relief on the route via Tonbridge.

Put simply: very small market, not good use of capacity, not worth the large amount of money.

 

[yorksrob]

Well, maybe more for operational purposes. I could imagine them swapping things around so that international services didn‘t have to cross over down locals for example.

That said, i still think HSMarshlink is unlikely because the classic route still seems better.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

St Pancras - Hastings 73 mins (the time saving of 395s rather than 171s and potentially not stopping at Ham Street and Appledore means that this value in reality would be smaller)

London Bridge - Hastings 83/95 mins
Charing Cross - Hastings 91/103 mins

Assuming they did upgrade the Marshlink to that extent, it's still noticeable that they don't have anything that could be described as an express service between Tunbridge Wells and Hastings at the moment, so the main route could potentially be speeded up a bit.

 

[SussexSpotter]

Deleted

 

[rf_ioliver]

*Looks at WCML and nods head*
What would I like to see re-instated? The NE-SW and South Coast - Scotland Sleepers.

You beat me to it...the Sussex Scot was always handy for catching GWML trains at Reading when coming from Brighton (and vice versa!). OK, it could be a bit slow, but one change versus treking across London or catching the North Downs stopper from Reading to Gatwick...and the intercity coaches were much comfier....

t.

Ian

 

[Metrailway]

Motorail...

 

[Antman]

As you've said, Southern tried to find paths and stock for an eighth London - Brighton service but I've not seen any serious attempts by them (or another TOC) to introduce new links from Brighton to other places in the South East (other than central London).

The EMUs/paths required to run an extra London service could have been
used to extend the Milton Keynes service beyond Croydon to Gatwick/ Brighton, for example

I seem to recall many passengers alighting at Clapham Junction from a MK to Gatwick/Brighton train and crossing to platform 13 for a faster service.

That said those with plenty luggage and time stayed on so couldn't the current service be extended fast via Redhill to Gatwick?

 

[mister-sparky]

I seem to recall many passengers alighting at Clapham Junction from a MK to Gatwick/Brighton train and crossing to platform 13 for a faster service.

That said those with plenty luggage and time stayed on so couldn't the current service be extended fast via Redhill to Gatwick?

Even if it was "fast", it would still take too long due to linespeeds and crossing junctions etc