Should the closed stations between Preston and Lancaster be reopened? ?

[AlastairFraser]

We could have two! Poulton-le-Fylde and Poulton-le-Sands

Direct from one to the other across a viaduct sunk in Morecambe Bay

....or the fast fly-shuttle boats on the Lancaster Canal...

Use amphibious cars and run into Preston Bus Station

 

[randyrippley]

Direct from one to the other across a viaduct sunk in Morecambe Bay


Use amphibious cars and run into Preston Bus Station

Well.........I know where the original horse-drawn packet boat "Swift" is believed to be sunk (in one of the boathouses) if anyone wants to refloat, rebuild, and stick hydrofoils on it

 

[AlastairFraser]

There does seem to be discussion at the moment surrounding either replacing Lancaster and Preston hospitals with a combined larger site between the two or simply relocating Lancaster somewhere else and redeveloping the site for housing. If that happens, that may well be solved (and developing that site would arguably be better in terms of reducing car dependence than building Bailrigg). But the hospital is of course just off the A6, so the existing uni bus service would also provide perfectly decent park and ride for that.



Pay more and offer better conditions and you will get staff.

On your first point, I can't see them moving RPH significantly, perhaps they'll build a new big hospital at somewhere like Halton to replace that and Westmorland General.
Bailrigg Garden Village has been approved anyway, so any solution needs to come before any redevelopment of the hospital.
The uni buses would provide perfectly decent park and ride for the hospital from where exactly? Lancaster city centre car parks? Or extend a few to Halton P and R and expand?

On your second point, no way Stagecoach will do this. Because their operating company in the area is Stagecoach in Cumbria and North Lancs, with a huge fleet and driver complement. It'd be a Pandora's box for them to increase for just one opco, then Stagecoach Merseyside and South Lancs will start asking too.

The council could always convince Preston Bus or perhaps Blackpool Transport to try and come up, take over the P and R, build and operate new ones perhaps - but this runs into the similar issues with bus congestion that a service increase from Stagecoach would face, plus issues with locating a new depot etc...

Unfortunately the station stop in post 271 is achieved by reducing the allowances and dwell at Lancaster, which isn't feasible to the extent required.
1 station stop may be possible without major work if it is inserted into the right service, but it is extremely tight on that section for WTT robustness.

Does that change with Windermere electrification, plus potential bi-modes on the Barrow services?

 

[zwk500]

Does that change with Windermere electrification, plus potential bi-modes on the Barrow services?

I don't know without access to a full timetable PIF and a couple of long nights to look at it, at which point my (very soon to be) manager will ask me to send a bill

I would hazard a guess that a modern unit's acceleration on OLE power would squeeze enough time out for 1 station between Preston and Lancaster without major changes, if ALL passenger services on that section went electric. 2 extra stations would likely be possible if only the Windermere services needed to be changed, and OLE got at least to the first station on the branch. I imagine trains terminating at Barrow would also be possible, but it does depend on the service structure.

 

[AlastairFraser]

I don't know without access to a full timetable PIF and a couple of long nights to look at it, at which point my (very soon to be) manager will ask me send a bill

Lmao. I'll have a look at rough approximation using RTT.
Edit - It seems electric services between Lancaster and Oxenholme save 3 mins, compared to diesel. I reckon you could also shave off a couple minutes from Chorley to Preston on electrics - I can't say with more confidence, but it seems like there is time to be had.

 

[zwk500]

Lmao. I'll have a look at rough approximation using RTT

By way of approximation, converting to EMU would allow c.30 seconds per stop (average) to be knocked off, with potentially extra 30 seconds here and there on steep climbs or accelerating away from low PSRs. Once on Battery a Windermere would probably not gain any additional time (hence OLE needing to make it around the corner from Oxenholme to Kendal). Adding a station stop can be approximated to 2 minutes extra in the existing locals.

 

[AlastairFraser]

By way of approximation, converting to EMU would allow c.30 seconds per stop (average) to be knocked off, with potentially extra 30 seconds here and there on steep climbs or accelerating away from low PSRs. Once on Battery a Windermere would probably not gain any additional time (hence OLE needing to make it around the corner from Oxenholme to Kendal). Adding a station stop can be approximated to 2 minutes extra in the existing locals.

So we need Windermere to get OHLE electrification, to permit service to either Bailrigg or my proposed Broughton Parkway essentially. And for both, you'd need the Cumbrian Coast to BIF to be electrified, no?
(30 secs each - Staveley, Burneside, Kendal, Oxenholme and Lancaster makes it just about possible, but you might want some linespeed increases on the Windermere branch.)
I can't see BIF being electrified any time soon (unless something happens in W Cumbria, like, say, Sellafield expansion), however Windermere has a strong business case and it could allow an electric shuttle too (a 323 could be interesting ) , no?

 

[zwk500]

So we need Windermere to get OHLE electrification, to permit service to either Bailrigg or my proposed Broughton Parkway essentially.

For one in the Windermere, I'd say OLE to Kendal + Battery would do it. Depends heavily on where the Avantis fit in behind that though of course.

And for both, you'd need the Cumbrian Coast to BIF to be electrified, no?

Depends how you distribute the stops, and whether you can eat into turnrounds. That'd need proper modelling though as the SRTs will be different for stopping twice between Preston and Lancaster rather than skipping. The BIF service would only need to be capable of OLE on the WCML - Bi-mode or Battery would be fine (subject to being able to operate it), if you could get a conventional linespeed tweak out of the Cumbrian Coast Line (potentially in tandem with resignalling, which is being talked about at some level).

 

[Mag_seven]

This thread is about reopening the closed stations between Preston and Lancaster. If anyone wants to discuss anything else such as Windermere or the Cumbrian Coast then they are welcome to start a new thread about it.

 

[stan claire]

It would also be a decent M6 park and ride from further North into Manchester, Buckshaw Parkway isn't really big enough for this in my experience.

The thing with Buckshaw park and ride is that I don't think it was meant for many people to be using it? I live near the station and it's made the news with how many cars park on the road leading up to the station because the car park never has enough space... they even had to put double yellow lines on the road leading up to the station to try and stop them!
There is a road that just ends on the left of the roundabout next to the station, if they hadn't have built that big office building (or whatever they plan on using it for) they could've used that to extend the car park for extra capacity

 

[JamieL]

Interesting to see that Cottam Parkway has been approved to encourage a shift in journeys from road to rail and to reduce road traffic at key congestion hotspots around Preston:

Plans for £24m Preston rail station approved

It is unclear when construction of Cottam Parkway will begin due to land ownership issues.

www.bbc.co.uk

Such a shame the mainline can't contribute in a similar way when there is clearly the demand!

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Interesting to see that Cottam Parkway has been approved to encourage a shift in journeys from road to rail and to reduce road traffic at key congestion hotspots around Preston:

Plans for £24m Preston rail station approved

It is unclear when construction of Cottam Parkway will begin due to land ownership issues.

www.bbc.co.uk

Such a shame the mainline can't contribute in a similar way when there is clearly the demand!

In no way would Cottam Parkway directly address the query raised by the title of this thread as it will not be a closed station being reopened on the original line of the Lancaster and Preston Junction Railway. I did note the phrase "land ownership issues" appearing in the article.

There is no real comparison between a main line, hidebound by only two tracks, carrying West Coast Main Line express trains and a lesser rail line.

 

[JamieL]

It illuminates the desire for more rail capacity in the area?

 

[zwk500]

It illuminates the desire for more rail capacity in the area?

But is it more important for rail to take shopping trips from small towns/local villages into Preston away from the roads, or for rail to take London-Glasgow journeys away from air or road?

If we'd had a serious long-term strategy from about the 1980s Preston to Lancaster might well have been prioritised for a 4-track intervention of some kind, in which case local services could have been planned into it. But you can't just slap down a station on the premier route between London, Birmingham and Manchester to Glasgow and Edinburgh without rather shooting yourself in the foot.

 

[The Planner]

It illuminates the desire for more rail capacity in the area?

More like enabling expansion of Preston to the east and the new road to the M55.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

It illuminates the desire for more rail capacity in the area?

Where does this desire eminate from. Have you a source for this?

 

[JamieL]

Where does this desire eminate from. Have you a source for this?

If you read the link I posted, you will see it is Lancashire Council.

 

[AlastairFraser]

More like enabling expansion of Preston to the east and the new road to the M55.

Cottam Parkway will be on the western fringe of Preston...

 

[The Planner]

Cottam Parkway will be on the western fringe of Preston...

I get left and right wrong as well. Clearly it was what I meant when I noted the new link to the M55.

 

[30907]

Cottam Parkway will be on the western fringe of Preston...

....and is clearly aimed at road traffic from the Fylde on the A583/M55, whether to Preston or Manchester or both. As already indicated, it's miles from the A6/M6.

OT: AIUI it might replace Salwick but with more trains

 

[AlastairFraser]

....and is clearly aimed at road traffic from the Fylde on the A583/M55, whether to Preston or Manchester or both. As already indicated, it's miles from the A6/M6.

OT: AIUI it might replace Salwick but with more trains

Eh, I think it's more aimed at the huge new housing developments in Cottam and Lea themselves, but the road connection on the new Western Distributor will prove useful, yeah.
As for Salwick, it all depends what happens to the Springfields site, which seems to be winding down to an extent. The chemical element is still more active, but the nuclear fuel element is being phased out in future I think.

I get left and right wrong as well. Clearly it was what I meant when I noted the new link to the M55.

Oh aye, but it wouldn't be RUK without a generous dollop of pedantry....